Any Thoughts On These Gadgets ?

[Zincubus]

Any thoughts on these gadgets ??

http://www.nigelsecostore.com/acatalog/Sol...charger_2W.html

http://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/Store/P...x?ProductId=340

[bothwell_buyer]

Any thoughts on these gadgets ??

http://www.nigelsecostore.com/acatalog/Sol...charger_2W.html

http://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/Store/P...x?ProductId=340

dunno either. Bit of a footer I'd thought and what happens if you start up when the things still connected??

[Red Yaris 54]

Similar items are sold by Maplins......................at less cost

They are not always suitable for cigarette lighter socket connection as some sockets need the ignition to be switched "ON" to be connected

[Hoovie]

Similar items are sold by Maplins......................at less cost

They are not always suitable for cigarette lighter socket connection as some sockets need the ignition to be switched "ON" to be connected

As he says above the RAV4's deffo need the ignition on - you really need to bring in a BAT+ line into the cabin to use these solar chargers. Good idea though, the batteries are not very good at holding a charge when the car is usused for a number of days

[Dippy]

the batteries are not very good at holding a charge when the car is usused for a number of days

Ahem - maybe not with all your gadgets!! ;) My 2003 car, original Battery, was left for a month and started up without problem when we came back.

[bothwell_buyer]

the batteries are not very good at holding a charge when the car is usused for a number of days

Ahem - maybe not with all your gadgets!! ;) My 2003 car, original Battery, was left for a month and started up without problem when we came back.

With the greatest respect (which often is written with a hidden meaning of don't be so bldng stpd ) and this time I do mean it most sincerely, if you leave the car in Portugal for a week or two, the higher temperature there is not as likely to knacker the Battery same as in deepest England which now enjoys the sort of weather that they (the English) laughed at us Scots for so many years...!!

Colder weather will slug the Battery a bit. Well it does in my experience.

[shcm]

I've left cars (inc the RAVs) outside for 3 weeks or more in the middle of winter (English) and they've started without any bother without external Battery charging.

'Cause if the Battery is "tired" it won't help.

Not got lots of evidence, but my feeling is a lot of it is down to how the vehicle gets used i.e. whether the vehicle is run for long enough to restore the charge to the Battery that was taken out during starting and how much load is put on the electrical system in the meantime.

In a former life (career), I was sent for my sins, with a couple of colleagues to diagnose repeated charge balance problems on three vehicles. We checked the whole electrical system (charging, ECU quiescent etc) and it was to spec on all. It turned out the vehicles were being repeatedly used similarly - to do a two minute drive down to the shop to buy a paper. The lights, blower, heated screens, heated seats etc, were all being chucked on as well. Very difficult to restore all the charge to the battery in that situation.

I know they try very hard to get the charge balance (the amount of charge taken from the battery versus how and when it gets put back) right and there are various usage test cycles that are used to verify it, but like most things in Engineering there is always a compromise somewhere. In this case probably cost versus battery/alternator size versus added fuel consumption.

I know we've discussed Hoovie's battery problem before. I don't like saying it, but I still can't help thinking there's a quiescent current problem there somewhere.

Have to agree with this comment as well:

My view is that a healthy battery and charging system should not need any form of additional charger as in your seperate

Cheers

[bothwell_buyer]

never really had a problem with the landrover Battery but then its twice the size, with the barest of electrical needs! The RAV Battery on the petrol models is one of the smallest, other than those on a motorbike......

[Robert6920]

Ahem - maybe not with all your gadgets!! ;) My 2003 car, original battery, was left for a month and started up without problem when we came back.

......if you leave the car in Portugal for a week or two, the higher temperature there is not as likely to knacker the Battery same as in deepest England which now enjoys the sort of weather that they (the English) laughed at us Scots for so many years...!!

On a slightly different note, I find that if I'm left in Portugal for a couple of weeks (as is my wont) my Battery is charged up but I still have trouble starting work at the end of it

[Hoovie]

the batteries are not very good at holding a charge when the car is usused for a number of days

Ahem - maybe not with all your gadgets!! ;) My 2003 car, original Battery, was left for a month and started up without problem when we came back.

I may be wrong about this, but I think the Continental RAV4s do not have a standard fit alarm, and I am pretty sure that is the Battery killer or at the least a significant contributor to it.

I had the first Battery problem when the car was left in a field (sorry - "hotel car park") near Gatwick and was totally dead when returned 2 weeks later (and it is a 160 mile trip to get to Gatwick) - It never retained it's charge properly again.

I have also left the RAV in a carpark at Heathrow T4 - where the alarms go off when the planes take off - so pretty often! returned after 10 days, started on a turn of a key.

On my battery issues, for sure there is a usage pattern there (my heated seat will not help :D ) - but nothing I have fitted myself that is a drain on a turned-off car though, except possibly the new head unit - and I suspect modern head units use NVRAM to hold setup info far more then relying on a permanent connection (e.g. - It had the previous owners fav POIs still stored ).

On a similar topic, but different car, just thought I would say I tried the Wifes Punto yesterday - 6 1/2 years old and not used since before Christmas. Turned the key and engine turned very slowly so battery had obviously suffered, but car started after about 10 seconds

[shcm]

I may be wrong about this, but I think the continental RAV4s do not have a standard fit alarm, and I am pretty sure that is the battery killer or at the least a significant contributor to it.

It's a fair comment. At design time the whole vehicle is normally designed for a quiescent current somewhere in the region of a few tens of mA or less. I can't see Toyota "corporate" screwing that up. However, at least for the 4.2, the alarm does look to be fitted on import. I wouldn't be surprised if this is Toyota GB's responsibility and maybe they did screw up on the alarm spec. However, as above, my 4.2 survived OK for several weeks.

but nothing I have fitted myself that is a drain on a turned-off car though, except possibly the new head unit - and I suspect modern head units use NVRAM to hold setup info far more then relying on a permanent connection (e.g. - It had the previous owners fav POIs still stored ).

My 4.3 one would appear to be half and half (or there's a large capacitor somewhere holding up well). It will remember most of the sat nav side of things, but forget the radio/audio settings. Most modern microcontrollers are flash based and/or have a bank of EEPROM.

Just in case by the way, I'm not trying to suggest you've screwed up fitting anything. It just doesn't seem right to me, (at least for UK environment), knowing from first hand experience how much effort goes into keeping the vehicle quiescent current down, that anyone would have problems after such a short period of time. That's assuming the Battery and charging system are operating normally of course.

When the vehicle has many ECUs and the total vehicle drain spec is only a few mA over the full environment spec, that works out for a an extremely low leakage current per ECU.

Depending on the requirement of how the ECU gets powered, (e.g. supply switched or permanent Battery feed with "on request" signal) it can sometimes be a real pain in the **** (er, sorry I mean "a real challenge" ) achieving it. :)

Cheers

[Hoovie]

don't worry, schm, I am not taking any comments personally :D It is an interesting quandry and discussion that maybe others can also benefit from as well :)

The situation doesn't seem right to me either and I suspect it is a combination of the Battery spec being a little close to borderline (what RAV4.2 did you have? Petrol or Diesel - the 4.2 Diesels Battery has - I think - twice the capacity) , the alarm drawing a bit more then 'expected' and a usage pattern for many RAV4 drivers that involves the car sitting around doing nothing (Mine is like that - it is all or nothing - sits around for couple of weeks and then 400 miles in 2 days)

[shcm]

Yep. plus, to be honest batteries are strange electro-chemical things and auto ones are usually more optimised for supplying lots of cold cranking amps for a short period, rather than repeated deep discharge.

[Hoovie]

Here is a bit of info to analyse ....

** Drove back home on New Years Eve .... in the dark so lights on, audio unit on and seat heater on, BUT 150 miles, so must be long enough to charge Battery?

** Went out in car on Thursday - short journey - 3 miles ish (kebab collection :D)

** Ran car yesterday on idle for about 15 mins to help clear ice and also moved car around driveway. listened to audio unit for about 50 minutes with just ignition on (washing car!). Later, started car and parked back in normal place in drive

** Went to go out today - Battery dead. :(

[Dippy]

My 4.2 is diesel, and doesn't have an alarm, so I can accept that. Meanwhile can I advise not to make general comments on an entire country's weather based on knowledge of a few beaches - I'm just back from Portugal's ski resort today at 1900m altitude, I don't think the UK manages that?;) Had fun with the littl'uns playing in the snow (and had fun cruising at 180kmh on the motorway and chatting quietly to each other!)

Hoovie, have you noticed if it gets worse in winter? (though with wipers, lights, heater, heated seats (!) it wouldn't be so surprising....)

Can anyone else help poor OP, or am I just learning exactly how easily this forum goes off topic? :)

[anchorman]

A healthy Battery on a modern vehicles will not suffer any problems after standing several weeks during the winter (not in the UK or warmer climes anyway). If it does then there is something wrong with the Battery or the vehicle has had something added to it that can discharge when the vehicle is unattended. There are faults that can cause the latter with a "as new" vehicle, i.e. no gadgets added and these can usually be identified by a good auto electrician. The real awkward ones are when this type of fault is intermettent.

To identify a poor Battery it needs to be trickle charged for at least 12 hours and then drop tested with a high discharge battery tester. There is no other way of reliably doing this.

Batteries usually show up any weakness in the cold weather because they are less efficient at low temperature, the engine (with thick oils etc) is more difficult to turn over and the mixture is less willing to be ignited.

A car that suffers from a flat battery is invariably caused by a duff battery and nothing more sinister. Japanese batteries tend to be well specified and if they fail it is usually when they are very new (as was demonstarted recently after pushing a brand new Auris around) or when they are very old. I would consider paying a significant premium for a genuine Japanese battery although I think that the only manufacturer is Yuasa (which is a jap company manufacturing in South Wales to jap spec'). Bob King recently posted a link to the website.

[Hoovie]

A healthy battery on a modern vehicles will not suffer any problems after standing several weeks during the winter (not in the UK or warmer climes anyway). If it does then there is something wrong with the battery or the vehicle has had something added to it that can discharge when the vehicle is unattended. There are faults that can cause the latter with a "as new" vehicle, i.e. no gadgets added and these can usually be identified by a good auto electrician. The real awkward ones are when this type of fault is intermettent.

To identify a poor battery it needs to be trickle charged for at least 12 hours and then drop tested with a high discharge battery tester. There is no other way of reliably doing this.

Batteries usually show up any weakness in the cold weather because they are less efficient at low temperature, the engine (with thick oils etc) is more difficult to turn over and the mixture is less willing to be ignited.

A car that suffers from a flat battery is invariably caused by a duff battery and nothing more sinister. Japanese batteries tend to be well specified and if they fail it is usually when they are very new (as was demonstarted recently after pushing a brand new Auris around) or when they are very old. I would consider paying a significant premium for a genuine Japanese battery although I think that the only manufacturer is Yuasa (which is a jap company manufacturing in South Wales to jap spec'). Bob King recently posted a link to the website.

My first Battery failed the drop test and was replaced

My Second Battery failed the RACs drop test on three occasions, but Toyota refuted this on their tests and would not replace.

Now the car is out of the 3 year warrenty and Battery not covered, if it gets too bad, I'll get a decent one to replace it, not a sub-standard RAV4.2 petrol spec one that is too poor for the job required.

[Dippy]

Three batteries in a four year old car - ouch :(

[jmg1953]

Any thoughts on these gadgets ??

http://www.nigelsecostore.com/acatalog/Sol...charger_2W.html

http://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/Store/P...x?ProductId=340

ANYONE KNOW HOW TO GET PERMANENT 12V SOCKET IN CAR WITHOUT DRILLING THROUGH FROM ENGINE BAY?

[anchorman]

Welcome to the club.

Can you just add some detail to your profile so we can see which model you have.

Cheers

[jmg1953]

Welcome to the club.

Can you just add some detail to your profile so we can see which model you have.

Cheers

Thank you for the welcome and appologies for the scant profile info. My Rav4 is 2003 nrg and I really would like to have a permanent 12v socket available so that I can simply plug my solar panel Battery charger into, but Toyota in there wisdom does'nt have one, well done Toyota for that gem! SO any help advice you can offer to overcome this rediculous situation would be much appreciated and NO there no addition gadgets fitted to my Rav and the Battery REGULARLY runs FLAT!

Cheers

[anchorman]

Have a look at this. It shows where to run the wire for a 12S socket but item 35 shows the grommet up by the accelerator you can come through to pick up off the Battery. There is lots of info on removing trim to get to whichever plug you choose. I hope this helps;

http://techdoc.toyota-europe.com/legacy/To...57-X0564-00.pdf

[jmg1953]

Have a look at this. It shows where to run the wire for a 12S socket but item 35 shows the grommet up by the accelerator you can come through to pick up off the battery. There is lots of info on removing trim to get to whichever plug you choose. I hope this helps;

http://techdoc.toyota-europe.com/legacy/To...57-X0564-00.pdf

Many thanks Anchorman, you are a star! I will have a go at this next weekend and let you know how I got on :D

[jmg1953]

Have a look at this. It shows where to run the wire for a 12S socket but item 35 shows the grommet up by the accelerator you can come through to pick up off the battery. There is lots of info on removing trim to get to whichever plug you choose. I hope this helps;

http://techdoc.toyota-europe.com/legacy/To...57-X0564-00.pdf

Well anchorman, if there is a prize for contorting your body into the most unbelievable positions then I must be in with a chance because short of dislocating my shoulders I must have tried every way to find "the grommit" without success! There is a coin shaped impression in the moulding near to the accelorator pedal which you can "open" but behind that is solid steel! I'm not risking drilling blind from that point into the engine bay as not far away on the other side are what appear to be hydrolic fluid pipes!!!!! So it looks like I'm going to have to dip deep into my pockets and let my local Toyota dealer do the job, much to my disappointment.