15p Per Litre Diesel Alternative

[BlueMax]

New legislation allow tax free production of upto 2500 litres of biodiesel

Found this page by Ecotec Resources UK.

Their Etruk 50 unit has a batch capacity of 40 ltrs; more appropriate for private users. It is compact, costs £895+VAT

Cost to produce biodiesel is claimed to be 15p per litre including the cost of used oil.

http://www.etruk.com/page8.php

Has anyone tried biodiesel in their Toyota?

If so, what mix?

[Leeky]

I used to run my Ford Scorpio 2.5TD on Sunflower oil. It loved it, i used to stick it in neat :)

[Parts-King]

I have replied to similar threads recently. Dont do it. Modern common rail, high pressure pumps are made to a very fine tolerance. The lubricating qualities of chip fat is NOT sufficient, long term, on one of these types of engine, whatever the manufacturer. Cheers, Kingo

[Leeky]

Oh yes, on a modern common rail engine DONT DO IT.

On older style diesel engines 9 out of 10 are fine.

[kingdeacon]

I have replied to similar threads recently. Dont do it. Modern common rail, high pressure pumps are made to a very fine tolerance. The lubricating qualities of chip fat is NOT sufficient, long term, on one of these types of engine, whatever the manufacturer. Cheers, Kingo

thats not true, its better than dino d for lubricating. its thicker than dino so needs a kit to run on most cars, this is a twin tank set up which uses normal diesel on start up till the engine has heated the coolant which heats a heat exchager which has your veg oil line running through it. a sensor will switch a valve open to use veg oil which goes in the normal car fuel tank, when your 1 min away from home you switch back to diesel so your starting on diesel when cold next time. you can make you own kits for £100 if you shop about to get the right bits or buy a complete kit for £500, end results is 56p per liter in asda for a 15l tub, 4 of them to fill my hilux or transit van, i get new oil for 50p normaly but some times get bargans at supper markets, asda had a 2 week roll back near me and it was 28p per litre! i brought them out every time i went there lol

for all the green prats that think we can save the world by doing are bit here in uk while china takes over, its much better than petrol or diesel as its prety much carbon neutral, we can grow it here in uk, there even looking into seaweeds that make more oil than rape seed, which is handy with all the sea out there :) my hilux does 25-30mpg but at 50p per litre its like 50-60mpg in money, not bad for big twincab being raged about on big tyres. the transit van does more! my mates audi A6 td does 45mpg which is like 90mpg lol in a big car. its only 2 years old and has done 74k as a taxi on veg oil :) no problems yet

i find it hard why so many people dont do it? i guess its all to do with the goverment not telling people and hoping we dont all start. the first ever diesel was invented to run on peanut oil! so we knew from the !Removed! start

you will see it be the short term answer to our energy problem untill hydrogen from water gets going proper with no waste. planes can fly on it to and richard branson is in the middle of sorting this out

dont use old oil unless your going to mess about cleaning it from fish heads etc, down to 5 microns! like diesel. then remove any water thats got in to it when being used.

fresh oil from asda, rape seed is best i find plus cheapest really but any will do. corn oil i find drops a tad on power, rape and sunflower are normal though.

[BlueMax]

Many automotive manufacturers approve the use of Biodiesel.

Toyota is not one of them as yet; one of the reasons for my questions on this forum.

Important not to confuse Biodiesel with veggie oil (SVO)

This page at Wiki is a good starting point

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel

Links

http://www.biodieselsolutions.co.uk/smallscale.asp

http://www.etruk.com/page8.php

http://www.bioroute.co.uk/biodiesel.htm

http://greenfuels.co.uk

DI Combustion Chamber Design

http://vegburner.co.uk/DIcombustion.html

Diesel Driver Mag forum has some experienced posters such as 'stu4rtparker'.

Their comments can be found by doing a search for 'biodiesel' at

http://www.dervhead.com/xmb/misc.php?action=search

Some good discussions at

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/

More links at

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/links.html

FRY AND DRIVE : an amusing press report

http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/features/foo...th/biofuel.html

[Karma Supra]

I will be looking at running my Hilux on Veggie oil :D The twin tank setup looks the way forward!

[Parts-King]

Just ask most major dealers, AA & RAC patrol men (and women) Veggie oil is NOT suitable (Long term) for modern common rail/high pressure systems. Fine on an older car, just not proven on newer models. I would not want to risk it, the cost of replacing a D4D fuel pump and pipes (you have to if you remove the pipes) would run into thousands of pounds on our current diesels. Kingo

[kingdeacon]

yeah its nice and cheap, plus its simple to with just pouring it in the tank these are good kits http://www.dieselveg.com/atg_kit_photos.htm

i save £25 a week plus! 5 months and the kits paid for, then you got £100 per month extra for beer :)

[1bloke1dog1mr2]

It doesn't really work out a huge amount cheaper once you pay your tax for using veg oil (Yeap, you have to register you're using it by law I'm afraid) but it's greener even if it stinks!

[BlueMax]

Each person can use/produce up to 2,500 litres of Biodiesel per year tax free.

In June 2007, HMR&C de-regulated biodiesel duty payable for small scale producers.

For upto 2,500 litres, producers will not need to submit returns or pay duty.

"Diesel is nearly £1.00 per litre, new veg from supermarkets, cash and carry such as Costco and Macro in 20 Litre drums, or in larger quantities from wholesale suppliers and canneries such as KTC Edible Oils in larger quantities (1000 litre IBC).

Oil is around 45 to 50p per litre so its half price motoring on new oil;

lowering to next to nothing if you reclaim and use waste oil.

More info at

http://www.dieselveg.com

and

http://www.biodieselsolutions.co.uk/docs/B...is%20letter.pdf

[kingdeacon]

like he said, there is no tax now :) no VAT either on veg oil

[1bloke1dog1mr2]

I stand corrected. Shame really as we got rid of our Delica that ran happily & more smoothly on a mix of veg oil and diesel. Well at least the government has seen sense!

[BlueMax]

Two tank conversions for 100% Veggie (SVO)

kits from £475.75 or from £1050.00 fitted.

http://www.dieselveg.com

But a fly in the ointment :(

With DI engines, some people advice against use of SVO. They favour of 30% Biodiesel.

forum at Diesel Driver Mag has some experienced posters such as 'stu4rtparker'.

See thread "Toyota D-4D Diesels on Veggie Oil ?!" at

http://www.dervhead.com/xmb/viewthread.php...page=1#pid89099

[Parts-King]

And what happens when it all goes pear shaped? Who will be paying the bill when your pump needs replacing, I know one thing, your Toyota warranty wont! Kingo

[Karma Supra]

Get a decent pump before you begin then ;)

[GT4 BOOSTER]

older surfs run all day long on svo/derv mix if your lucky .BUT it can mess them up as i recently found out - look up error code 14 , its not pretty when the ecu flags it up either , specially doing 70 mph in the outside lane in a near 2 tonne truck .Its due to the timing control valve on the pump clogging

if an injector misses 3 or 4 times in a row , the ecu shuts the pump down due to timing problems . plumes of white smoke and 1 broken down truck .

a new valve is said to be around £ 400 . Luckily fresh derv and redex sorted mine out this week .

[sotal]

like he said, there is no tax now :) no VAT either on veg oil

It's tax exempt up to your personal allowance but it's not VAT exempt, apparently they put that it to try and stop you using straight Veg Oil but they haven't made themselves clear. Veg Oil from the supermarket is VAT exempt as it's classes as an essential food, but if you change it's use then you have to pay VAT but they don't really have a way of letting you pay the VAT even if you want to. They want you to buy bio diesel rather than veg oil, bio diesel is sold with the VAT built in but unfortunately they don't know how much you've had so most places that sell biodiesel still charge you the tax as well as the VAT so it ends up at 80 odd pence per litre.

Basically they ****** up the regs, I stick a bit in the old landrover to keep things cheaper, but then again the landrover engine was designed to run on whatever they could find - including peanut oil etc, and a replacement engine is only 100 quid or so.

[Kingpleb]

www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum is a good place to look for info as well.

D4-D engines are liked by some kit makers as the pumps made by Denso are just licensed copies from Bosch anyway and the Bosch pumps are more tolerable of poor quality or dodgey fuels, SVO is pretty good at cleaning your fuel system out as noted but also good at lunbricating but unfortunately it thickens up at higher tempratures than diesel. im not sure about d4d engined cars but most diesels say that when the temprature gets low to add so much petrol to help thin it out more. this is often done with veggie cars when the weather is like it is now and helps with cold starting. the best systems out there also help preheat the fuel from the coolant system of the car and can be helped further by using the engine pre warming kits you can buy online that plug into your household electric supply to have your engine nice and warm when you step into it in the morning.

The main problem is that manufacturers COULD design their engines to work on SVO/WVO/Biodiesel quite easily but like most things they wont put the time and effort into it as there is not enough global demand for such an engine.

Thats why i have a Citroen Xantia(XUD9TE) that runs on 95% Corn Oil(49p/litre in lidl) and 5% BP Ultimate Diesel which although its £1.08p/litre near me unless i stop off another cheaper garage on the otherside of town helps thin the oil down a fair bit and the engine runs sweet as anything and feels a bit smoother as well mostly :)

Mrs Pleb drives the Auris 1.4 D4-D which i would love to convert to veggie considering its done almost 5k in less than 5months :)

[BlueMax]

I ran our D-4D on 20% veggie for two tankfuls. Sounded more rattley than usual for the first mile or so. Also heard somewhere something about veggie oil causing more deposits on more modern diesel engines. And now that the ambient temperatures are going down, I decided to play it safe and stop using veggie on this car for the mo.

Waiting to hear reports from long term users of veggie with this type of engine.

[D4Ddriver]

I ran our D-4D on 20% veggie for two tankfuls. Sounded more rattley than usual for the first mile or so. Also heard somewhere something about veggie oil causing more deposits on more modern diesel engines. And now that the ambient temperatures are going down, I decided to play it safe and stop using veggie on this car for the mo.

Waiting to hear reports from long term users of veggie with this type of engine.

Hi Just to say that having tryed B5 and upto 20% rape seed oil derv mix for approching 10,000 miles. Pain to mix up the Veg oil with diesel before adding to the tank.

And since then I have run on B100 with occasional 20 litres of Diesel for 24,000 miles now Buying Bio diesel B100 for 70 to 75p per litre bulk.

Car drives same as diesel but depending on the quality of fuel sometimes is quicker on bio than diesel and other batches are the other way around.

Ecconomy around the same sometimes better other times worse.

Cold starting is fine but after warm and switched off for 2 hours at low temps cranks a few seconds to start.

Smells Ok not as strong as others on b100.

[BlueMax]

Hi Just to say that having tryed B5 and upto 20% rape seed oil derv mix for approching 10,000 miles. Pain to mix up the Veg oil with diesel before adding to the tank. And since then I have run on B100 with occasional 20 litres of Diesel for 24,000 miles now Buying Bio diesel B100 for 70 to 75p per litre bulk.

Car drives same as diesel but depending on the quality of fuel sometimes is quicker on bio than diesel and other batches are the other way around.

Ecconomy around the same sometimes better other times worse.

Cold starting is fine but after warm and switched off for 2 hours at low temps cranks a few seconds to start.

Smells Ok not as strong as others on b100.

That sounds promising :)

Did not know about having to pre-mix veggie with diesel.

Is it cos you use B100 you don't need a two tank system?

[kingdeacon]

just a update on what i been up to with my hilux and transit with regards to veg oil,

hilux has now done the last 3000 miles on 100 % used cooking oil from the chip shop, which i cold filter to 1 micron plus remove any water. My transit van has now done 12000 plus on the same stuff :) I really should not tell to many people as dont want you all doing it ;)

me and my mate share are set up to feed our cars, and will have 800 litres to much in stock ! which cant be a bad thing

i smile every time i go past a petrol station knowing that 106p per litre dont bother me, as its under 2p per litre for my costs lol

this is all you need to be able to prosses 200 litres per day

[D4Ddriver]

just a update on what i been up to with my hilux and transit with regards to veg oil,

hilux has now done the last 3000 miles on 100 % used cooking oil from the chip shop, which i cold filter to 1 micron plus remove any water. My transit van has now done 12000 plus on the same stuff :) I really should not tell to many people as dont want you all doing it ;)

me and my mate share are set up to feed our cars, and will have 800 litres to much in stock ! which cant be a bad thing

i smile every time i go past a petrol station knowing that 106p per litre dont bother me, as its under 2p per litre for my costs lol

this is all you need to be able to prosses 200 litres per day

Congrats on your filter system set up this looks good. I wondered what sort of pump you use as its not in the pic and needs to be resiliant to bits in the oil.

I have only 2 filters and filter my purchased bio Diesel 5 then 1 micron before it gets into my d4d tank, it mixes well with any diesel that may be in there too.

I did run a landrover on veg oil, a tdi type with a two tank system but I had no storage space for filtering used oil so bought new oil from the shops.

The two tank system was simply, one two way solenoid valve plumbed after the diesel filter, the veg oil line had a filter too, the return was looped back to the point after the valve and before the lift pump. This kept the veg oil hotter.

Injector pipe temps were 40deg ish and no heat exchanger was needed.

I went away from this set up due to costs veg oil went up to 70/litre and the vehicle needed to be started and run 10 mile on diesel to warm up before switch over and 5 mile on diesel to prime the system before switch off if left for over 1 hour.

When B100 bio diesel made from veg oil using methanol and caustic soda was available for 70p I switched to this and then sold on my two tank system getting my boot back at the same time.

Using veg oil and forgeting to switch over when cooling down was risky as on starting it was rough running and the ineficient burning smelled more of pancakes, if left on veg in the summer after 3k the dip stick oil level had stopped dropping as before and veg oil was present in the engine oil. This is still an issue now on B100 so keep a keen eye on the oil level and in cold weather mix in more diesel.

The D4D smells loads less than my other vehicle It seems that it burns the B100 more completly and oil levels have been fine.

I may in futre make B100 myself from used veg oil but for now am happy with the b100 I buy.

ps When I used veg oil in my D4D I mixed it with 10 litres of diesel in a 25L drum and rolled it down the garden path then added this to the tank.

[kingdeacon]

he pump I use is the TAM105 found here for £35 ;) http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/...ntrifugal-pumps

its a really good pump and very good price, deals with veg oil no prob.

I pore in to drum 1 through a 400 micron net filter in a plant pot, so nothing over that size get in there, saves on filters and pump