Toyota Approved Warranty

[Carlos999]

Hi,

I'm after some advice because I've just about had it with Toyota and my Rav XT5. D4D

To give you some background I purchased my Rav last September from a Toyota dealer in Derbyshire,it was 2 1/2 years old with 16k I paid £14,500 the dealer had sold it and serviced it from new and it came with all the approved used vehicle stuff,and more importantly the 12 months warranty. I can remember the salesman saying its a reliable product however should you have a problem it will be covered. Four months passed and no problems I was really pleased with the vehicle, then in Jan. whilst driving it began to mis-fire and pump out loads of black smoke from the exhaust, this cleared after I stopped and restarted it. It did it a couple of times that month so I took it to my local dealer in Worcester, who have now ceased trading. They had it for the day and informed me that they had performed an EMU update which should cure the problem, they also gave me a diesal additive to put in the tank next time I filled up and said I should run it on BP ultimate not the Tesco fuel I had been using.

The intermittant mis-fire continued. The following month the sat-nav unit packed up, this was changed under warranty £4k I was told. The end of March it was due its MOT I also told them I still had the mis-fire problem. They did the test and safety inspection and put another additive in the tank. Again it continued to mis-fire only a couple a times a month though, however still annoying.

In May it began to judder when braking and got progressively worse, took it in again, they agreed to change all discs and pads under warranty, and again I asked them to look at the mis-fire.When I took it in to have the work done they said they couldn't get the fronts they were on back order but would call me when in, they said there were no faults regarding the mis-fire so they dont know why its happening, I assured them that it was and I was starting to loose my patience, again they said they would have another look when I brought it back. In between time the company stopped trading and sadly laid staff off.

My nearest Toyota dealer in Bromsgrove completed the work and following their inspection told me that there was an oil leak at the rear of the engine which needed sorting before the extended warranty expired in Sept. they told me to book it in for a couple of days and they would have a look over it.

I took it in on the 28/7 they phoned me that evening to say the had diagnosed an oil leak from the sump,leaking head gasket,leaking water pump,faulty EGR valve and a blocked inlet manifold but not to worry it will be covered under the warranty. The warrenty group replied saying that carbon deposits were not covered so resubmitt minus the valve and manifold, the service manager wasn't happy so they agreed to send an assesor to inspect.They have now agreed to cover the valve but have wont cover the sump leak because they believe this was presant prior to the expirary of the manufacturers warranty therefore not covered. I have been in contact with Customer Relations Dept. and the service manager at the dealership on a daily basis both are supportive but has yet work has not started, this would be the 12th day I have been without the vehicle.

When I bought the Rav I thought I was buying a reliable product backed up by a company thats customer focused, how wrong I was.

Have you any ideas where I can go with this!!

Many Thanks in Antipication

[anchorman]

Carlos.

What a mess - I'm not surprised you are at your wits end.

Lets look at this bit by bit. Firstly, don't worry about the EGR and the inlet manifold as they are now covered by a 5 year or 100k mile warranty. The work may require that it has recorded a 0400 fault code which should have thrown up some fault messages on the dash. If it didn't don't worry either it can still be sorted.

It isn't easy to comment on the leak from the sump, head and water pump without me actually seeing them but lets just put things into perspective. Obviously the Toyota spec for this engine is that it should be FREE of leaks and that is true but I have seen what was described as a warranty oil leak and we have recently been discussing a water pump leak. Now if everyhting is equal and these items are going to get done under warranty - well OK and there may be some - and focus on the word "some" - benefit in having them attended to. Primarily this will refer to the fact that you may get some modified parts to prevent further problems. This certainly applies to the sump leak as I have seen the TSB. I'm not sure about the water pump and so this means that they would in theory fit another pump which we now know is a leak prone component. That is the sump and the water pump - I don't have any experience of the head leak.

Now Carlos you have to consider the implications of having the work done. Certainly the sump and the head are big jobs that require some major stripping of the engine. The water pump in itself is not a big job but Mr T makes a big job out of it as he calls for the engine to be removed. We - any of the owners have not yet changed a water pump but myself (a time served mechanic) and HEMI who owns a garage both think we would struggle somewhat before removing an engine to change a water pump. It may be that they have done the homework but I am a bit sceptical because they also call for the engine to be removed for some jobs we know for sure can be done with it in situ. Add to this my biggest concern and that is that we often hear that more damage has been done by the dealer chuffing about than if they had left it alone and with the amount of work we are talking about there is lots of scope for things to get more out of hand and you ending up in a worse state. Now I know that there are some good dealers with good mechanics but it is a bit of a lottery and you have to drop lucky. The upshot is that I personally would tolerate certain faults rather than risk getting the duff mechanic - I just don't want anyone who is not skilled or doesn't have the right attitude getting his grubby paws on my car.

I have seen a sump leak that a Toyota dealer considered a warranty issue and while I accept it no doubt leaks. if I discovered it outside the warranty period I certainly would consider stripping the engine down for it because it was only a damp patch and not actually dripping anywhere - with the plastic sump guard on it didn't even make it to the road. We believe this applies to the water pump but as I say I have not actually seen one. They way I would make a quick check is to check the water level in the header tank and if it hadn't actually gone down then it there is probably very little to worry about. Water pumps have a little weep hole in the body which allows coolant to escape if it should get past the seal and not contaminate the bearing. While technically it should be dry and not have a coolant stain, in reality they often do and rarely get worse, they can run like that indefinitely.

OK OK, now lets pretend we know nothing about cars and are going to take the advice of the dealer and see about getting these repairs sorted.

I presume by the warranty group you mean you have a third party extended warranty??? I find this a bit confusing because it can only be 3 years old in September (there are no 4 year old 2.2 RAVs) and in this case it is covered anyway. Maybe I have misunderstood so I'll assume it may be the case that it is just over 3 years old..........

These people are quite capable of getting on my wick as well as they promise you the earth when you are waving your credit card around and then when it comes to the crunch the cretins go to ground and will think of all kinds of inane excuses why they shouldn't cough up. However, in this case I think that TGB should be your first port of call.

If the repairs were picked up and recorded by the dealer during the warranty period then in some respects I agree with the extended warranty people (only if it is not a genuine Toyota warranty) that this should be finalised by TGB as it has only gone outside the warranty period because they can't decide what day it is never mind what should have been done in the first place. If it IS a Toyota extended warranty then it is just a matter of digging in.

This is what I suggest you do.

Take it to a good local garage that you can trust. Tell them what has happened and ask them to assess whether they think that the sump, head and water leak are serious enough to justify the work in the first place. If you don't know anyone and you fancy a ride to Buxton I don't mind looking to tell you what I think.

If they say the work really should be done then you should contact Toyota Customer Relations on 01737 363633 and explain that the faults were detected by the now closed dealer inside the warranty period. As long as it really was recorded by the dealer you shouldn't have any problems and in any case I think you should have a reasonable claim as these are not items that you should expect at this age - in law a test of reasonableness will apply.

At the same time, ask them to authorise the EGR and inlet manifold.

If you have a third party warranty then I might be inclined to dig in with them as it better to have two solutions rather than none! Tell them there is no possible way to determin whether the faults were there during the warranty and ask them to give it to you in writing that they will pick up any consequential damages if the faults cause on further damage - just see what they say.

Let them both know that you intend to persue it. Pm me if you would like to chat about it.

Keep your chin up mate - there is more than one way to skin a rabbit!

[Carlos999]

Thanks Anchorman,

I appriciate the detailed response and words of wisdom along with the offer of a drive to Buxton, however the Rav is still apparently in bits in Mr.T's workshop.I did speak to the service manager yesterday and he promised to e-mail me the digi-photos that he se hnt to the warranty group and guess what they didn't arrive, I will call him again today, when I get them I will pm them to you to see what you think.

With regard to your concerns about removing the engine, its to late that came out yesterday, however the garage does have a good reputation around here, just wish I'd used them from day one.

Also spoke with C.R. yesterday and they told me that the case had been passed to the appeals dept. and I shall have a decision on the sump leak on Monday. Again told them that I was unhappy with their level of service and I might be persueing some compensation for the time I've been without the vehicle.

To clear up any confussion I purchased the Rav in Sept. 08, from a Toyota Dealer through their approved used car scheme. At the end of March this year it was 3 years old so the warranty changed from the manufactures to the Toyota Extended when you read the gumph they give you on purchase the two are very similar however the later is administerd by an insurance group and deal not solely with Toyota.BEWARE!!

The Rav has only done 24k to date and seems prone to picking up faults, It wouldn't surprise me if it came down with swine flu next!

Thanks again Anchorman, I'll keep you informed.

Regards

Carlos

[Plutus]

Carlos

Sorrry to hear about this.

I think you should press Toyota customer service very hard indeed.

From the Toyota website (approved used)

12 months Toyota Warranty

"All major components of your vehicle are included in the 12 month Toyota Warranty. Either you keep the remainder of the original 3 year, 60,000 mile warranty, or we extend the Warranty to cover 12 months/unlimited mileage from the date of purchase - with a similar level of cover as you would get with a new purchase."

Seems they leave "wriggle room" by saying it's a similar level of cover.

Not what you expect from Toyota.