Rav 4 T180 Run Flat Tyres

[Branson]

My T180 will be needing some tyres soon, the car itself is fine :D, but I'm seriously thinking of an alternative to these run flats especially as I've been quoted £965, which I'll have to Shell out every couple of years, more if I get a puncture. (I could buy a complete set of wheels and tyres for 1/2 the price)

I'm told by some tyre dealers that the alloy wheels are "normal" alloys and the bands can be cut off and ordinary tyres fitted, obviously saving money. I read the posting of a member doing exactly this with photos on how the support bands were removed.

I'm also told however, by a couple of tyre dealers who can fit these run flats, that the T180 wheels are NOT "normal" alloys and fitting normal tyres is DANGEROUS !

So can someone confirm my first question: Are the T180 alloy wheels themselves "normal" alloys such that ordinary tyres can be fitted if the supports bands were removed?

Secondly, sooner of lat the Tyre Pressure Monitoring System is going to complain, can this be disables, does the computer display messages all day or does the bulb just light up in which case I could just disconnect it.

Presumably owners of the T180 who have to change between summer and winter tyres have a solution to this? Any help greatly appreciated.

[DaronB]

Whoever told you the alloys were not normal is talking nonsense , they are normal alloys just fitted with a support band inside , the whole idea was a bad one as specialist equipment is needed to change tyres so Toyota do not fit this system any more , most run flats now are just hardened sidewall tyres which can be changed anywhere.

We had a T180 Rav and I had the support bands taken out , to do this you have to cut the tyre off literally with a small saw or knife and VERY CAREFULLY use a small wheel grinder to cut off the support band , once done you can fit any tyres the correct size (we bought Dunlop at £100 each fitted im told the tyre size is the same used on Lexus which don't have support bands fitted) , the tyre pressure warning system won't be affected as long as you don't damage it removing the tyre or support band. You will however need to carry tyreweld and an electric pump or a spare wheel in the boot , the latter would be better as the tyreweld if used will destroy the tyre pressure monitor in the wheel.

Here are pics I took of the band being removed I hope this helps you:

[halfpastsix]

Or you could just buy a complete set of wheels and tyres!

[Branson]

Whoever told you the alloys were not normal is talking nonsense , they are normal alloys just fitted with a support band inside , the whole idea was a bad one as specialist equipment is needed to change tyres so Toyota do not fit this system any more , most run flats now are just hardened sidewall tyres which can be changed anywhere.

We had a T180 Rav and I had the support bands taken out , to do this you have to cut the tyre off literally with a small saw or knife and VERY CAREFULLY use a small wheel grinder to cut off the support band , once done you can fit any tyres the correct size (we bought Dunlop at £100 each fitted im told the tyre size is the same used on Lexus which don't have support bands fitted) , the tyre pressure warning system won't be affected as long as you don't damage it removing the tyre or support band. You will however need to carry tyreweld and an electric pump or a spare wheel in the boot , the latter would be better as the tyreweld if used will destroy the tyre pressure monitor in the wheel.

Here are pics I took of the band being removed I hope this helps you:

Thanks DarrenB.

I had two conflicting views about these wheels, when I started to find out who could quote for doing the job my local tyre fitter said cut the support bands of and fit normal tyres, these are normal alloys and you'll save yourself a lot of money in the long run. That sounded like the best plan to me.

The info I had that these were not normall alloys came from two tyre fitters who actually fit these run flats, a chap at Alpha Tyres was particularly emphatic that, due to certain parameters of the design of the wheel, fitting normal tyres would be dangerous, I said someone had told me that the wheels were normal, but he insisted they should not be used. To be fair to the guy at Alpha Tyres he said he had already converted a T180 to normal alloys but I'd need to change the wheels and it might be possible to transfer the pressure sensors. (which sort of made his statement sound credible). the local Toyota dealer also said they were not normal, nor could the pressure sensor system be turned off. No surprises there.

Obviously somebody(ies) talking rubbish, so either these tyre dealers just don't know, or are just protecting thier £18k investment. I'd just like confirmation from someone who knows about alloy wheel design before I do exactly as you have.

[duncerduncs]

Looking to Europe could provide the answer...

The Rav 4 X (European version of our car) is available with or without Run Flats (choice is yours), the alloy wheels are the same! ;)

[Branson]

Looking to Europe could provide the answer...

The Rav 4 X (European version of our car) is available with or without Run Flats (choice is yours), the alloy wheels are the same! ;)

Cheers !

[Batsran]

Whoever told you the alloys were not normal is talking nonsense , they are normal alloys just fitted with a support band inside , the whole idea was a bad one as specialist equipment is needed to change tyres so Toyota do not fit this system any more , most run flats now are just hardened sidewall tyres which can be changed anywhere.

We had a T180 Rav and I had the support bands taken out , to do this you have to cut the tyre off literally with a small saw or knife and VERY CAREFULLY use a small wheel grinder to cut off the support band , once done you can fit any tyres the correct size (we bought Dunlop at £100 each fitted im told the tyre size is the same used on Lexus which don't have support bands fitted) , the tyre pressure warning system won't be affected as long as you don't damage it removing the tyre or support band. You will however need to carry tyreweld and an electric pump or a spare wheel in the boot , the latter would be better as the tyreweld if used will destroy the tyre pressure monitor in the wheel.

Here are pics I took of the band being removed I hope this helps you:

Thanks DarrenB.

I had two conflicting views about these wheels, when I started to find out who could quote for doing the job my local tyre fitter said cut the support bands of and fit normal tyres, these are normal alloys and you'll save yourself a lot of money in the long run. That sounded like the best plan to me.

The info I had that these were not normall alloys came from two tyre fitters who actually fit these run flats, a chap at Alpha Tyres was particularly emphatic that, due to certain parameters of the design of the wheel, fitting normal tyres would be dangerous, I said someone had told me that the wheels were normal, but he insisted they should not be used. To be fair to the guy at Alpha Tyres he said he had already converted a T180 to normal alloys but I'd need to change the wheels and it might be possible to transfer the pressure sensors. (which sort of made his statement sound credible). the local Toyota dealer also said they were not normal, nor could the pressure sensor system be turned off. No surprises there.

Obviously somebody(ies) talking rubbish, so either these tyre dealers just don't know, or are just protecting thier £18k investment. I'd just like confirmation from someone who knows about alloy wheel design before I do exactly as you have.

To disable the pressure sensors all that Toyota have to do is connect their box of tricks and delete each of the four registered wheel sensors. This procedure is the same as they would do to replace a faulty pressure monitor - except they do not add the relacement unit.

With regard to the support rings, I wonder if any of the (now many) tyre centres who can do BSR would do a deal to remove the bands - since I think (guessing here) that the rig removes the band anyway when doing tyre replacement or repair. Given that you would not be bothered if the rings got damaged as part of the process you may find a garage that would be interested to do the process as part of a training excercise.

I personally still have mixed views on this, my wife *loves* the fact that she has runflats that prevent her from getting stranded. The repair costs are not too scary tbh unless you get a series of puntures, and compared to 'traditional' runflats that can widely be swapped out they have an advantage. Go anywhere near a BMW forum and you will see a lot of *very* bitter punters. Offical BMW guidelines are that no runflat can be repaired. Drive a brandnew beemer over a nail and if you drive any distance they will say that the integrity of the sidewall has been compromised and therefore trash the tyre. There is even a offical debate by the rubber people to establish some guidence that manufactures can relie on since treating runflats as disposable is crazy, especially when manufacturers are trying to play the green 'hug a tree' card by saying not carrying a spare is the way forward. Bridgestone Support Ring's effectively mean that the zero pressure tyre is not subject to the same sidewall stress and therefore should be always fixable - albeit the ring can be subject to damage. For me it comes down cost. If I was the only user of the car then I would probably have the rings removed as each tyre came to need attention and only disable the pressure sensors as a last resort. In this instance unless a space saver can be found for under the floor I would rather get the car recovered to a tyre place than put tireweld in there.

Let us know how you get on.

[Branson]

Whoever told you the alloys were not normal is talking nonsense , they are normal alloys just fitted with a support band inside , the whole idea was a bad one as specialist equipment is needed to change tyres so Toyota do not fit this system any more , most run flats now are just hardened sidewall tyres which can be changed anywhere.

We had a T180 Rav and I had the support bands taken out , to do this you have to cut the tyre off literally with a small saw or knife and VERY CAREFULLY use a small wheel grinder to cut off the support band , once done you can fit any tyres the correct size (we bought Dunlop at £100 each fitted im told the tyre size is the same used on Lexus which don't have support bands fitted) , the tyre pressure warning system won't be affected as long as you don't damage it removing the tyre or support band. You will however need to carry tyreweld and an electric pump or a spare wheel in the boot , the latter would be better as the tyreweld if used will destroy the tyre pressure monitor in the wheel.

Here are pics I took of the band being removed I hope this helps you:

Thanks DarrenB.

I had two conflicting views about these wheels, when I started to find out who could quote for doing the job my local tyre fitter said cut the support bands of and fit normal tyres, these are normal alloys and you'll save yourself a lot of money in the long run. That sounded like the best plan to me.

The info I had that these were not normall alloys came from two tyre fitters who actually fit these run flats, a chap at Alpha Tyres was particularly emphatic that, due to certain parameters of the design of the wheel, fitting normal tyres would be dangerous, I said someone had told me that the wheels were normal, but he insisted they should not be used. To be fair to the guy at Alpha Tyres he said he had already converted a T180 to normal alloys but I'd need to change the wheels and it might be possible to transfer the pressure sensors. (which sort of made his statement sound credible). the local Toyota dealer also said they were not normal, nor could the pressure sensor system be turned off. No surprises there.

Obviously somebody(ies) talking rubbish, so either these tyre dealers just don't know, or are just protecting thier £18k investment. I'd just like confirmation from someone who knows about alloy wheel design before I do exactly as you have.

To disable the pressure sensors all that Toyota have to do is connect their box of tricks and delete each of the four registered wheel sensors. This procedure is the same as they would do to replace a faulty pressure monitor - except they do not add the relacement unit.

With regard to the support rings, I wonder if any of the (now many) tyre centres who can do BSR would do a deal to remove the bands - since I think (guessing here) that the rig removes the band anyway when doing tyre replacement or repair. Given that you would not be bothered if the rings got damaged as part of the process you may find a garage that would be interested to do the process as part of a training excercise.

I personally still have mixed views on this, my wife *loves* the fact that she has runflats that prevent her from getting stranded. The repair costs are not too scary tbh unless you get a series of puntures, and compared to 'traditional' runflats that can widely be swapped out they have an advantage. Go anywhere near a BMW forum and you will see a lot of *very* bitter punters. Offical BMW guidelines are that no runflat can be repaired. Drive a brandnew beemer over a nail and if you drive any distance they will say that the integrity of the sidewall has been compromised and therefore trash the tyre. There is even a offical debate by the rubber people to establish some guidence that manufactures can relie on since treating runflats as disposable is crazy, especially when manufacturers are trying to play the green 'hug a tree' card by saying not carrying a spare is the way forward. Bridgestone Support Ring's effectively mean that the zero pressure tyre is not subject to the same sidewall stress and therefore should be always fixable - albeit the ring can be subject to damage. For me it comes down cost. If I was the only user of the car then I would probably have the rings removed as each tyre came to need attention and only disable the pressure sensors as a last resort. In this instance unless a space saver can be found for under the floor I would rather get the car recovered to a tyre place than put tireweld in there.

Let us know how you get on.

Thanks, that's very helpful.

My view is, that as good and safe as the run flat system may be, the practicality and costs lead me to go for the traditional tyres. I have spoken to a tyre fitter who could remove the bands but - no deal - they will not accept liability, so the angle grinder it shall be. Keeping the Pressure Sensors, for me, is a good idea. As I see it if you're a long way from home and have a flat its going to need the AA whatever tyres are fitted, better for me if a local tyre dealer could sort it though. Cheers.

[Hoovie]

If you have run-flats then a TPMS (Tyre Pressure Monitoring System) is essential, but if you convert to conventional tyres, then keeping the TPMS system still has significant advantages as it is not always evident even with normal tyres when you have a flat until it is too late, you have driven on the tyre too long and it cannot be repaired.

I have an aftermarket TPMS system fitted on my RAV 4.2 and I am very pleased I have as I can always be sure that every tyre is running at the right pressure.

Admittedly, my TPMS is a lot better then the Toyota system and gives real info on each wheel, but even the limited Toyota system is better then non.

[Batsran]

If you have run-flats then a TPMS (Tyre Pressure Monitoring System) is essential, but if you convert to conventional tyres, then keeping the TPMS system still has significant advantages as it is not always evident even with normal tyres when you have a flat until it is too late, you have driven on the tyre too long and it cannot be repaired.

I have an aftermarket TPMS system fitted on my RAV 4.2 and I am very pleased I have as I can always be sure that every tyre is running at the right pressure.

Admittedly, my TPMS is a lot better then the Toyota system and gives real info on each wheel, but even the limited Toyota system is better then non.

I agree on all points here. Our T180 seems to show that the tolerance for pressure is quite wide and the tyres can be quite deflated before causing an alert but one of the main advantages of any of these systems is detecting a leak if you are zooming down the motorway. If its a slow leak, especially on the back it can be hard to notice until you get a blow out. These systems help alot. On BMW they (like many other) use a cheap version that uses the ABS sensors to measure rotation speed to detect deflation, but these are inferior to the pressure sense systems. They are however more reliable in terms of lack of things to go wrong or damage when changing tyres.

[vivianM]

If you have run-flats then a TPMS (Tyre Pressure Monitoring System) is essential, but if you convert to conventional tyres, then keeping the TPMS system still has significant advantages as it is not always evident even with normal tyres when you have a flat until it is too late, you have driven on the tyre too long and it cannot be repaired.

I have an aftermarket TPMS system fitted on my RAV 4.2 and I am very pleased I have as I can always be sure that every tyre is running at the right pressure.

Admittedly, my TPMS is a lot better then the Toyota system and gives real info on each wheel, but even the limited Toyota system is better then non.

I agree on all points here. Our T180 seems to show that the tolerance for pressure is quite wide and the tyres can be quite deflated before causing an alert but one of the main advantages of any of these systems is detecting a leak if you are zooming down the motorway. If its a slow leak, especially on the back it can be hard to notice until you get a blow out. These systems help alot. On BMW they (like many other) use a cheap version that uses the ABS sensors to measure rotation speed to detect deflation, but these are inferior to the pressure sense systems. They are however more reliable in terms of lack of things to go wrong or damage when changing tyres.

Does any one know at what lower pressure than the reccomended presure the TPMS gives a warning - I must admit I was hoping it would warn me that the tyre pressure needed checking before it dropped by more than about (say) three psi

Guy