Sprint Series Update

[PaulT]

It's been a manic three weeks for the Aygo. Firstly, I went on a long driving weekend in the region of Germany south of Bonn, and that was great B)

Then we had rounds four and five of the Toyota Sprint Series on consecutive weekends.

Round four was at Barkston Heath, but in the reverse direction to the earlier round. After testing the new second anti-roll bar on the road, I decided to take it off before going to Germany. It was bottoming out on some roads and I preferred to have better clearance. Unfortunately, there wasn't time to fit an alternative before round 4, so the car was a bit wobbly and tail-happy.

I also fitted road tyres before Germany, as the track ones were finished and I wanted to see what the handling was like on 185x55x14 Kumho Ecstas. These are cheap tyres at £165 all fitted, but actually rather good on the road. No so great on track, as to be expected really, and with the softer front end I wasn't as quick as I had been in round three.

Still, just managed to win class F although it was really close. Janey, driving the TRD Vitz again, posted the fastest time on her last lap but it was disallowed after she hit one of the white poles marking the corner apexes. Taking to the grass at Barkston is strictly forbidden so you get a void run for hitting the markers. Sadly Bazza in the Yaris T Sport was comfortably ahead, for once, and didn't let me forget it

Some cool Barkston pictures from Phil-GT4RC:

For round five, the chaps at Track Developments figured out how much strengthening the stock front ARB would need and then welded a strut to it to make it stiffer. This worked really well, so the front and rear anti-roll has been stiffened by adding minimal weight, just welding on some extra metal.

As always, Woodbridge this time was an excellent track with some really difficult sections. Unfortunately there were rather too many straights, so the higher-powered cars had an advantage, but still the racing was very competitive.

On this relatively high-grip circuit, tyres are given a thorough work-out. Have a listen to the soundtrack in this

. You can see from these excellent pictures that the tyres are rolling over onto the shoulder a little, which is the price you pay for road-going comfort.

There's a whole gallery of cool photos here.

Class F went to the Aygo again, but unfortunately Bazza got away this time as well. I need to buy some proper tyres next time :D

I'm very pleased with the car as it's great fun to drive. If only Toyota made some suspension mods like I have done and then added the 1.33 engine---that would be a nice car.

Paul.

[aygo vvti]

yeah the aygo would be brilliant if toyota put the 1.3ltr turbo engine in it and you would shame most of the cars in the series (not that you dont already : P ) what bhp are you running paul?

[PaulT]

what bhp are you running paul?

67

Paul.

[zakelwe]

Hmm, there is something odd about the Aygo. After watching your (once again) excellent video 4 times your Aygo and mine seems to be more like a long wheelbase car in a short wheelbase disguise, it is excellent on the long sweepers at the end of the circuit but not so good on the naggery bits. I think the Aygo is not darty enough with steering making the back end come into play so it understeers and you cannot get the power down early to drag it out, you just have to wait. If the back end was more active you could cancel the tuck in/oversteer by a whiff of opposite lock and power down but that doesn't seem to happen so much even with your heavily modified car. Or does it from the drivers seat?

It seems to be built for incredibly safe yet boring understeer. Why they thought people would need the option of ESP as well is beyond me, god you must be a numpty to need protecting from this chassis the way they have built it !

Regards

Andy

[PaulT]

Hmm, there is something odd about the Aygo. After watching your (once again) excellent video 4 times your Aygo and mine seems to be more like a long wheelbase car in a short wheelbase disguise, it is excellent on the long sweepers at the end of the circuit but not so good on the naggery bits. I think the Aygo is not darty enough with steering making the back end come into play so it understeers and you cannot get the power down early to drag it out, you just have to wait. If the back end was more active you could cancel the tuck in/oversteer by a whiff of opposite lock and power down but that doesn't seem to happen so much even with your heavily modified car. Or does it from the drivers seat?

Reminds me, I forgot to mention

. You can hear the difference with the tyres.

Not sure what it looks like, but in the car understeer is not a problem except at full throttle in first gear with road tyres. I can get to full throttle pretty soon after most apexes with no loss of traction from the front.

You do feel the oversteer helping you out in the braking zones. Toyota often makes understeery cars, it is safer for most people, but as you say it is more helpful to dial that out when trying to get a fast time.

Paul.

[zakelwe]

Hmm, there is something odd about the Aygo. After watching your (once again) excellent video 4 times your Aygo and mine seems to be more like a long wheelbase car in a short wheelbase disguise, it is excellent on the long sweepers at the end of the circuit but not so good on the naggery bits. I think the Aygo is not darty enough with steering making the back end come into play so it understeers and you cannot get the power down early to drag it out, you just have to wait. If the back end was more active you could cancel the tuck in/oversteer by a whiff of opposite lock and power down but that doesn't seem to happen so much even with your heavily modified car. Or does it from the drivers seat?

Reminds me, I forgot to mention

. You can hear the difference with the tyres.

Not sure what it looks like, but in the car understeer is not a problem except at full throttle in first gear with road tyres. I can get to full throttle pretty soon after most apexes with no loss of traction from the front.

You do feel the oversteer helping you out in the braking zones. Toyota often makes understeery cars, it is safer for most people, but as you say it is more helpful to dial that out when trying to get a fast time.

Paul.

Hi Paul,

That was what I was trying to say ( rather badly ! ) if you could get the back end to step out then apply throttle at the apex or even before then I think it might help because of the long gearing (any loss of corner speed made up for with acceleration). It may be slower though. Does trailbraking help? Sadly I only drive on roads and have to get to work in the car so I don't want to experiment too much in case it goes pear shaped. I am still trying to apply throttle at the apex and it is just washing wide. I might have to find a safe roundabout to try some permutations.

By the way I am still really enjoying my EBC solid discs and greenstuff pads on the road, very strong and more linear in application I find.

Finally, when is the next round, I would like to come and watch if it is not too far away.

Regards

Andy

[PaulT]

if you could get the back end to step out then apply throttle at the apex or even before then I think it might help because of the long gearing (any loss of corner speed made up for with acceleration). It may be slower though. Does trailbraking help?

Yes, I find myself trailbraking most of the time onto corners. You don't want to provoke a big skid (maybe with the handbrake), because that would probably slow you down. As the car is set at the moment, the front is slightly grippier and holds the line well.

Sadly I only drive on roads and have to get to work in the car so I don't want to experiment too much in case it goes pear shaped. I am still trying to apply throttle at the apex and it is just washing wide. I might have to find a safe roundabout to try some permutations.

By the way I am still really enjoying my EBC solid discs and greenstuff pads on the road, very strong and more linear in application I find.

You should have come along to race at Woodbridge, then you would have found out what was the quickest way round B)

Finally, when is the next round, I would like to come and watch if it is not too far away.

Unfortunately it is at Teesside Autodrome, 24th October, which is a long way up north. I will be driving up on Saturday for the afternoon / evening race and somebody on the forum is going to make a block hotel booking for us to stay over and drive back Sunday.

If you wanted to enter there would be space. I would just get on the hotel list asap if you want to come.

Paul.

[aygo vvti]

Hmm, there is something odd about the Aygo. After watching your (once again) excellent video 4 times your Aygo and mine seems to be more like a long wheelbase car in a short wheelbase disguise, it is excellent on the long sweepers at the end of the circuit but not so good on the naggery bits. I think the Aygo is not darty enough with steering making the back end come into play so it understeers and you cannot get the power down early to drag it out, you just have to wait. If the back end was more active you could cancel the tuck in/oversteer by a whiff of opposite lock and power down but that doesn't seem to happen so much even with your heavily modified car. Or does it from the drivers seat?

Reminds me, I forgot to mention

. You can hear the difference with the tyres.

Not sure what it looks like, but in the car understeer is not a problem except at full throttle in first gear with road tyres. I can get to full throttle pretty soon after most apexes with no loss of traction from the front.

You do feel the oversteer helping you out in the braking zones. Toyota often makes understeery cars, it is safer for most people, but as you say it is more helpful to dial that out when trying to get a fast time.

Paul.

Hi Paul,

That was what I was trying to say ( rather badly ! ) if you could get the back end to step out then apply throttle at the apex or even before then I think it might help because of the long gearing (any loss of corner speed made up for with acceleration). It may be slower though. Does trailbraking help? Sadly I only drive on roads and have to get to work in the car so I don't want to experiment too much in case it goes pear shaped. I am still trying to apply throttle at the apex and it is just washing wide. I might have to find a safe roundabout to try some permutations.

By the way I am still really enjoying my EBC solid discs and greenstuff pads on the road, very strong and more linear in application I find.

Finally, when is the next round, I would like to come and watch if it is not too far away.

Regards

Andy

well thats how mine was before i fitted the limited slip gearbox now thats cured understeer and im getting a bit of oversteer.

[zakelwe]

Unfortunately it is at Teesside Autodrome, 24th October, which is a long way up north. I will be driving up on Saturday for the afternoon / evening race and somebody on the forum is going to make a block hotel booking for us to stay over and drive back Sunday.

If you wanted to enter there would be space. I would just get on the hotel list asap if you want to come.

Paul.

Blimey, that is a fair old way, is that the last one of the year?

Regards

Andy

[PaulT]

Blimey, that is a fair old way, is that the last one of the year?

Yep, that's it for 2009.

Paul.

[Millerm]

Hi PaulT,

Great to see what you're doing with your Aygo. I always come back to this forum to see if you've posted something new!

I would imagine the custom suspension upgrades (roll-bar and upgraded torsion bar) to be rather expensive, or is this incorrect?

The car does seem to ride much flatter now and it seems much more responsive, a huge improvement! How is it on the road now?

Anyway, really great stuff! When I see the photo's it does seem obvious the car would benefit with all lot more neg. camber at the front (-2 to -3). I think this could be achieved with one or two camber/crash bolts on each strut, depending how much camber you get and want.

I'm going to fit the stiffer and lower springs I have lying here soon and might try to explore the use of camber bolts after that. I do still have the standard thin eco tyres, but am determined to maximize the traction from them first. Don't want to upgrade to cheap heavy alloys that will rob performance and mpg. Decided to take the Aygo to a track instruction day after the springs have been fitted. I'm really excited to see how the Aygo keeps up there!

Take care ;)

[PaulT]

I would imagine the custom suspension upgrades (roll-bar and upgraded torsion bar) to be rather expensive, or is this incorrect?

The car does seem to ride much flatter now and it seems much more responsive, a huge improvement! How is it on the road now?

Well it was expensive to do the development, but now that we know it probably wouldn't be much more than a couple of hundred quid for both arbs.

It is excellent on the road now, even on road tyres B)

I'm going to fit the stiffer and lower springs I have lying here soon and might try to explore the use of camber bolts after that. I do still have the standard thin eco tyres, but am determined to maximize the traction from them first. Don't want to upgrade to cheap heavy alloys that will rob performance and mpg. Decided to take the Aygo to a track instruction day after the springs have been fitted. I'm really excited to see how the Aygo keeps up there!

I haven't been tempted to mess with the camber yet. I think a problem you have with the stock tyres is that the sidewalls are very soft. Camber may help a bit, but you may as well get some wider (expensive :( ) wheels and better tyres.

Paul.

[Millerm]

Thanks for your reply Paul. Your wheels are very nice btw, but I do think they are a bit overbudget for this cheap little funcar.

[zakelwe]

Thanks for your reply Paul. Your wheels are very nice btw, but I do think they are a bit overbudget for this cheap little funcar.

I'm taking my trolley jack to the JAE meet so he may find he is the proud owner of some cheap Rota's when he wakes up on Sunday morning :D

Regards

Andy

[PaulT]

I'm taking my trolley jack to the JAE meet so he may find he is the proud owner of some cheap Rota's when he wakes up on Sunday morning :D

I'm sleeping in the car

Paul.