Rav4 D-cat 177: Power Loss And All Sorts Of Vsc Warnings

[Justin Adie]

I have a rav4 d-cat 177. i don't know whether they are sold under the same model number in the UK but basically it's the 177bHP diesel monster with all the trimmings (including those !Removed! annoying run-flats that cost eur380 each to fit out here).

about an hour ago my wife reported a big 'snap' and therafter my RAV4 was saying ' check engine system, check 4X4 system'. it will not rev over 2000 RPM and will hardly climb any incline in whatever gear.

i live in france and there are no garages nearby that are open. And will not be for another 10 days or so.

Can anyone hazard a guess as to what might be wrong? fuel cap on tight, btw.

i'm thinking the old dear might have put 'super' in the tank instead of diesel (super is the old leaded petrol that is still sold ). she swears not, however. and the till receipt bears out her side of the story!

just to put some context to the question:

about a month ago i was rammed by a peugeot van and propelled into the back of a megane with a tow bar, destroying at least two radiators. the repairs took three + weeks. Immediately thereafter i smelt a burning plastic odour. i dismissed this as most probably some plastic coating to the rads but maybe I was wrong.

any light that you might be able to shed on the problem to help me fix in the short term would be really appreciated.

Thanks

Justin

[DaronB]

Hi Justin , anything that the cars ECU(ENGINE CONTROL UNIT) sees as a problem or threat to the safety of the engine will send it into 'safe' mode , the snap is usually just the sudden drop in power whilst accelerating.Safe mode will only allow the engine to rev to about 2000 rpm so that no damage can be caused but you can still drive to the garage for repairs. The only way you will find out the cause is to plug the car into an OBD fault reader , this will also reset the fault and turn out all the warnings which are also normal in safe mode although until the cause is fixed permanently the problem will keep returning.

[duncerduncs]

Hi Justin

Sorry to say, it sounds like a blocked EGR valve to me :(

Reading this thread http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.p...mp;hl=egr+valve should help.

Best of luck

[anchorman]

It does to me too.

[igormus]

Hi Justin

The additional contra pressure on the exhaust line criates a power loss -- in your case it is too much carbon deposits inside the EGR.

Have inspected EGR valve and cleaned it first + revert with result after trials on highway.

Cheers/Igor

[anchorman]

If the warning light has been on it will have recorded a fault code of 0400 and in that case there is an extended warranty of 100k/5 years which will give you a new EGR and a new inlet manifold if it is sufficiently contaminated. For that reason it is important that you have the new EGR fitted as it will resist further problems. It is all FOC.

[Mike0001]

If the warning light has been on it will have recorded a fault code of 0400 and in that case there is an extended warranty of 100k/5 years which will give you a new EGR and a new inlet manifold if it is sufficiently contaminated. For that reason it is important that you have the new EGR fitted as it will resist further problems. It is all FOC.

Wow! Now you don't get that from Ford and their bl**dy diesels!

[anchorman]

If the warning light has been on it will have recorded a fault code of 0400 and in that case there is an extended warranty of 100k/5 years which will give you a new EGR and a new inlet manifold if it is sufficiently contaminated. For that reason it is important that you have the new EGR fitted as it will resist further problems. It is all FOC.

Wow! Now you don't get that from Ford and their bl**dy diesels!

:) I take it you had a problem with Ford!!!

The extended warranty is brought about because there is a high risk of premature failure and although there is more than a moral obligation, TGB could make it a lot more difficult and it is commendable.

[Mike0001]

:) I take it you had a problem with Ford!!!

Sure did! My very first Ford...and my last! Only its limp home revs were slightly sub-idle, so it died as soon as you tried to drive off even on the flat. Did this regularly, with EGR fault, and would start but wouldn't budge for 10 minutes to an hour. After 9 months we traded it in for <---this beauty.

Peugeot make Ford diesels. Anyone know whether they make them for Toyota too?

[anchorman]

Yes but they only put them in green RAVs!

Just tormenting you. Put it this way, all the RAVs have Japanes Toyota made engines. Not sure if there are any joint ventures for the likes of Aygo engines.

[DaronB]

Alot of manufacturers share engines simply because it saves enormous amounts on development costs , also if an another brand of engine has been running without issues for a long time then it makes sense to use it if its had proven reliability, Land Rover use many BMW engines and Renault and Nissan share diesel engines, Peugeot and Ford share the 1.6 engine as does Citroen , Toyota used the BMW Mini engine in the 1.4 D4d models but all other diesels are their own , the 2.2 177bhp engine is shared with Lexus, I believe they now use the 1.6 Peugeot engine too as its very low emissions and very economical. Fiat/Alfa also share diesel engines with Vauxhall and Saab. It was actually Alfa/Fiat who invented the common rail diesel system used in most modern diesel engines.

[anchorman]

Toyota used the BMW Mini engine in the 1.4 D4d models but all other diesels are their own

I think it might be the other way around but I am out of the motor industry now and not so in touch;

http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cf...12401/story.htm

[DaronB]

Toyota used the BMW Mini engine in the 1.4 D4d models but all other diesels are their own

I think it might be the other way around but I am out of the motor industry now and not so in touch;

http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cf...12401/story.htm

Thats interesting because all Toyota diesel engines are run by Denso computers with Denso injection systems except the 1.4 which has a Bosch computer and Bosch injection system as used by BMW in all their models.

It would be interesting if someone could clarify this .

[duncerduncs]

To quote 4car

This is the Mini One D, which - as its name suggests - has a diesel engine under the bonnet. Quite a nice one, in fact: the D4-D turbocharged unit from Toyota, as used in the Yaris. Of 1.4-litre capacity, it develops 75bhp at 4000rpm and 133lb ft of torque (pulling force) from 2000rpm, some 7lb ft more than in a Yaris. That extra muscle is a by-product of the adoption of a dual-mass flywheel (pretty unusual in this class of car), chosen primarily because it dampens vibration.

[goodison]

Toyota did use the peugeot diesel in the AYGO, but the no longer make a diesel model now. The peugeot engine was used because the 107/C1 & Aygo are a joint venture between PSA and Toyota, Toyota found the engine to be not very relieble, Toyota are the worlds second biggest producer of diesel engines behind Peugeot. They also fitted a peugeot diesel engine into the year 2000 corolla while the 1cd-ftv engine was under going tests. that was another mistake

[Justin Adie]

thank you for all the replies. I got the diagnosis back from the garage today: they report a faulty injector which they are replacing. i don't know whether the EGR valve is part of the injector assembly. from all I read on these forums it seems most likely that the EGR valve is at fault.

i am concerned by the timing though - the fault seems too close to the big rebuild for it to be an unconnected event.

time will tell! in fact a lot of time: i don't get the car back until Tuesday! quite why it takes the garage 4.5 working days to the the fix I don't know.

[Justin Adie]

as an addendum, what does EGR stand for? i am trying to think of an appropriate translation for the garagiste here. i will take them the pdf that anchorman posted in the other thread too, but the froggies are notorious for disclaiming responsibility for things.

i've never had good fuel consumption from the rav4. driving at under 2.5k revs all the time in a mixed cycle gives me about 10l/100km (27.3 mpg). could this all be tied in or is the bad consumption just something i will have to learn to bare?

[anchorman]

Hmmm......

.....well I hope they are correct. Your engine employs a "fifth injector" which sprays fuel into the exhaust. It is all part of the D-CAT system and is there to clean up the emmissions. It is also in the same loop as the EGR so is closely related. I would love to know what fault code it has stored - you don't happen to know do you?

I don't know what the volumes are like over there and just how familiar they are with RAVs but I sincerely hope you soon get it sorted.

Good luck!

D_CAT.pdf

[anchorman]

as an addendum, what does EGR stand for? i am trying to think of an appropriate translation for the garagiste here. i will take them the pdf that anchorman posted in the other thread too, but the froggies are notorious for disclaiming responsibility for things.

i've never had good fuel consumption from the rav4. driving at under 2.5k revs all the time in a mixed cycle gives me about 10l/100km (27.3 mpg). could this all be tied in or is the bad consumption just something i will have to learn to bare?

EGR stands for exhaust gas recirculation. It means just that - some of the exhaust is sent back into the intake side of the engine and reburned. You need to be a chemistry whizz to understand the technicalities and chemistry whizz I aint but you will soon google it if you want to know more.

The valve is really an electro mechanical valve that is opened by the engine management ECU in accordance with engine load but they are known to stick with a combination of carbon and gummy fuel residue. When that happens the exhaust is affectively opened right up with the inlet and the engine runs really rough. It also then drops into a special "limp home" mode which is just to get you off the highway.

Fuel consumption is not always good with the 177 engine but I would have expected it to be the other side of 30mpg. The trouble is it is hard not to grow horns with that version and drive it to the limit but I would have thought it throw up a fault light if something was significantly wrong. Anyway some of the T180 guys might comment on fuel consumption but have a read at this regarding the EGR valve. Let me know if you need anything else;

EGR.pdf

Cheers

[stevenson]

Hmmm......

.....well I hope they are correct. Your engine employs a "fifth injector" which sprays fuel into the exhaust. It is all part of the D-CAT system and is there to clean up the emmissions. It is also in the same loop as the EGR so is closely related. I would love to know what fault code it has stored - you don't happen to know do you?

I don't know what the volumes are like over there and just how familiar they are with RAVs but I sincerely hope you soon get it sorted.

Good luck!

D_CAT.pdf

Ohmigod - it's got an afterburner....

[anchorman]

Hmmm......

.....well I hope they are correct. Your engine employs a "fifth injector" which sprays fuel into the exhaust. It is all part of the D-CAT system and is there to clean up the emmissions. It is also in the same loop as the EGR so is closely related. I would love to know what fault code it has stored - you don't happen to know do you?

I don't know what the volumes are like over there and just how familiar they are with RAVs but I sincerely hope you soon get it sorted.

Good luck!

D_CAT.pdf

Ohmigod - it's got an afterburner....

It would look impressive as you leave the boy racers in the distance with solid blue flames coming from the exhaust wouldn't it? :D

[OldSkoO1]

Not a RAV t180 but an auris T180

On my daily commute which is 60% A-road 40% - town i return 43mpg but the very next day it could plumit to 41mpg in a matter of miles. I assume this is the D-Cat burn cycle kicking in.

This happened just yesterday. I always reset my fuel computer with each fill up and i was happily returning my usual 43 odd MPG but as it just 150 miles from reset the computer still adjusts more frequently and i noticed a near 2MPG drop doing the same route in the same conditions and i knew something was going on, as A) this was a very unusual considering it was climbing the previous day and B ) it wasn't budging much even on high gear downhill stretches. It only started climbing again after a booted it a couple of times.

I believe it is extremely important to use good fuel and not to labour / REV too low, to accelerate between max torque for max cylinder pressure, cruise at between 1.6 and 1.9k RPM, and NEVER go uphill at less than 2k RPM, never plant the foot for acceleration, do it smoothly and always ensure it gets a high speed run fairly frequently. Also it is a good idea to reach max power, circa 3.6k RPM fairly frequently with smooth acceleration and take it to near red line occasionally. If you do < 15 miles on a typical journey (especially none m-way), EGR blocking problems are magnified.

All this should help reduce the soot build and you should be looking for a toyota garage to get the ECU update which reduces the over fuelling at low speeds / RPM's which is the very worst offender for clogging EGR valves causing limp mode.

[jospom]

Not a RAV t180 but an auris T180

On my daily commute which is 60% A-road 40% - town i return 43mpg but the very next day it could plumit to 41mpg in a matter of miles. I assume this is the D-Cat burn cycle kicking in.

This happened just yesterday. I always reset my fuel computer with each fill up and i was happily returning my usual 43 odd MPG but as it just 150 miles from reset the computer still adjusts more frequently and i noticed a near 2MPG drop doing the same route in the same conditions and i knew something was going on, as A) this was a very unusual considering it was climbing the previous day and B ) it wasn't budging much even on high gear downhill stretches. It only started climbing again after a booted it a couple of times.

I believe it is extremely important to use good fuel and not to labour / REV too low, to accelerate between max torque for max cylinder pressure, cruise at between 1.6 and 1.9k RPM, and NEVER go uphill at less than 2k RPM, never plant the foot for acceleration, do it smoothly and always ensure it gets a high speed run fairly frequently. Also it is a good idea to reach max power, circa 3.6k RPM fairly frequently with smooth acceleration and take it to near red line occasionally. If you do < 15 miles on a typical journey (especially none m-way), EGR blocking problems are magnified.

All this should help reduce the soot build and you should be looking for a toyota garage to get the ECU update which reduces the over fuelling at low speeds / RPM's which is the very worst offender for clogging EGR valves causing limp mode.

full of v-power or http://www.tunap.com/en/ranges/automotive/...ars-engine.html

no smoke and fullpower

[Justin Adie]

my journeys are typically 30 - 200km and 90%+ motorways. i tend to travel between 120 - 140 km/h which translates to revs of 2.1 to 2.6k. the lowest i have ever seen my consumption is on a 300km run down to barcelona where i got down to 8.9l/100km.

when the car works, the engine feels great: good torque and smooth acceleration. no harsh sounds or feedback. It just eats diesel like i munch bacon sandwiches.

my wife's car (admittedly a mini but still 178 bHP) gets about 7l/100km with her thrashing it the whole time. it's petrol though. My renault scenic 2l automatic returns about 7.5l/100km.

i had anticipated better fuel consumption characteristics with diesel than petrol, and was expecting results much closer to the 40mpg mark. if not above. Disappointing ;-)

[jospom]

my journeys are typically 30 - 200km and 90%+ motorways. i tend to travel between 120 - 140 km/h which translates to revs of 2.1 to 2.6k. the lowest i have ever seen my consumption is on a 300km run down to barcelona where i got down to 8.9l/100km.

when the car works, the engine feels great: good torque and smooth acceleration. no harsh sounds or feedback. It just eats diesel like i munch bacon sandwiches.

my wife's car (admittedly a mini but still 178 bHP) gets about 7l/100km with her thrashing it the whole time. it's petrol though. My renault scenic 2l automatic returns about 7.5l/100km.

i had anticipated better fuel consumption characteristics with diesel than petrol, and was expecting results much closer to the 40mpg mark. if not above. Disappointing ;-)

Look here http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/