It's Happened, Damned Run Flats!

[petee99d]

Well, I should have guessed it would happen. After years of driving other cars with no problems, I treated myself to a RAV T180 in March and today, it rewarded me by picking up a puncture. I can't get in at my dealer until monday because the only guy trained to fit run flats is on holiday and none of the independent fitters on the run flat thread are close enough to me.

I'm just glad I'm not at work for the next few days, or I'd be seriously p***ed off. It's going to cost "between £50 and £300" to fix according to my dealer, depending on whether it's a fixable puncture, or a new tyre needed, or a tyre plus support ring. I know that it's an occupational hazard with owning a T180 but that's no consolation when even the dealer tells you that the run flats are the most stupid idea in the history of stupid ideas. I think it's ironic that the last car that I had a puncture in, about 8 years ago, was another Toyota, an MR2. I think the God of car ownership is telling me to stick with Vauxhalls and Fords! I'm off out onto the garden now to scream and shout a bit!

[halfpastsix]

Go down the breakers and get a set of steelies off a 4.1!

[Mike0001]

Are you sure they are that expensive? I thought KwikFit sold run flats cheaper than that.

[ash7jar]

Are you sure they are that expensive? I thought KwikFit sold run flats cheaper than that.

Oh dear, would some one explain

[MarsKy]

Oh dear, would some one explain

LOL :D That's made my day!

[petee99d]

Are you sure they are that expensive? I thought KwikFit sold run flats cheaper than that.

From what I've read on this forum, I've been quoted cheaper than some! At least my dealer is willing to carry out a repair if it's possible. Also, if it's a new tyre required, it's not that bad compared to the cost of tyres for some other makes. I'm trying to be philosophical about it, now that I've stopped fuming. Mind you, in 12 months time, I think I'll be changing my car for something a bit more user friendly, unless I can pick up a cheap spare wheel.

[MarsKy]

Are you sure they are that expensive? I thought KwikFit sold run flats cheaper than that.

From what I've read on this forum, I've been quoted cheaper than some! At least my dealer is willing to carry out a repair if it's possible. Also, if it's a new tyre required, it's not that bad compared to the cost of tyres for some other makes. I'm trying to be philosophical about it, now that I've stopped fuming. Mind you, in 12 months time, I think I'll be changing my car for something a bit more user friendly, unless I can pick up a cheap spare wheel.

Sorry - we should be more helpful. It's just that the wheels for the T180 have been the subject of many long rants, including looking at legal action (whatever happened to the CAB complaint about a year ago?)

I've been very lucky enough to pick up spares through this forum. eBay is also a known source for spares. But you need to get in quick once they pop up.

If it's the £300 to replace the wheel, then an alternative is to get fitted out in new alloys and standard tyres and offset the cost by selling your existing T180 set on eBay or through this forum.

Interestingly, my T180 alloys are showing signs of bubbling which should be fixed under warranty (I'll wait until October for my next service to bring it up with my Toyota dealer). Wonder if (and how) they will strip off the ring to refurbish the wheel?

[Batsran]

Are you sure they are that expensive? I thought KwikFit sold run flats cheaper than that.

From what I've read on this forum, I've been quoted cheaper than some! At least my dealer is willing to carry out a repair if it's possible. Also, if it's a new tyre required, it's not that bad compared to the cost of tyres for some other makes. I'm trying to be philosophical about it, now that I've stopped fuming. Mind you, in 12 months time, I think I'll be changing my car for something a bit more user friendly, unless I can pick up a cheap spare wheel.

Sorry - we should be more helpful. It's just that the wheels for the T180 have been the subject of many long rants, including looking at legal action (whatever happened to the CAB complaint about a year ago?)

I've been very lucky enough to pick up spares through this forum. eBay is also a known source for spares. But you need to get in quick once they pop up.

If it's the £300 to replace the wheel, then an alternative is to get fitted out in new alloys and standard tyres and offset the cost by selling your existing T180 set on eBay or through this forum.

Interestingly, my T180 alloys are showing signs of bubbling which should be fixed under warranty (I'll wait until October for my next service to bring it up with my Toyota dealer). Wonder if (and how) they will strip off the ring to refurbish the wheel?

We had one alloy on our t180 swapped due to bubbling, AFAIK the dealer simply moved the tyre (and I suspect support ring) to a new alloy. Not sure if the valve was moved or if a new one was programmed in. There seems to be debate about the rings and how hard they are to remove, but my understanding is that the tyre machine removes the ring semi-automatically as part of any tyre repair operation. Given how hard any BSR task appears to be I would recommend talking to your stealer asap. Plus if the 'bubbling' develops to far then they may say that the damage is due to impact/stones etc - always best get it in when the first signs are there.

[mike xt-r]

There are two for sale on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/new-rav-4-alloy-whee...id=p3286.c0.m14 Mike

[kammy1975]

Dont waste your time or money, just get the rings removed and replace tyre with the original Bridgestone Dueler, or try the Dunlops. My fronts are getting low on tread, and I will defo be getting those darned rings chopped off .!! Im hoping it will result in a slightly better ride too, as the BSR means theres less of an air cushion for the tyre to absorb the bumps.

I havent decided on tyres yet, but will post once I make the jump. Others have!

[petee99d]

I'm glad I have a sense of humour and irony is all I can say.

And here's why. I contacted my dealer on the day I had the puncture (last Thursday), who couldn't get me in until today (monday). So, this morning, I turn up on time and hand over my keys, fully willing to wait the 1.5 hours I was expecting. I went for a walk and came back an hour later. The service manager then told me that their specialist runflat fitter had been on another job and was about to start on my car! So, I had a moan and sat down with a cup of coffee. About half an hour later, I was informed that I needed a new tyre and the support ring was ok. Good news eh? Well, sort of. The dealer then told me that they don't have a tyre in stock and couldn't get one until tomorrow! So, basically, I kicked off .

They'd had FIVE days to get a tyre in and now, I was stranded. Luckily, the wife managed to come and pick me up but, tomorrow, when my puncture is finally sorted, the wife is at work, so I'm going to have to Shell out for a taxi to get me to the dealer to pick my car up. I tried a couple of the independent tyre fitters on the list that are on the run flat thread and they were a lot more expensive than the dealer AND further away. So, one puncture equals being off the road for almost a week!!! I am seriously f***ed off with the T180 now and can't wait to get rid of the !Removed! thing. A puncture I can live with, runflats I can live with, the cost I can live with. Waiting and dealing with incompetence I cannot live with.

Edit - I've called Toyota UK to vent my anger and suggest that their system for dealing with BSR tyres is an absolute joke.

[DaronB]

I'm glad I have a sense of humour and irony is all I can say.

And here's why. I contacted my dealer on the day I had the puncture (last Thursday), who couldn't get me in until today (monday). So, this morning, I turn up on time and hand over my keys, fully willing to wait the 1.5 hours I was expecting. I went for a walk and came back an hour later. The service manager then told me that their specialist runflat fitter had been on another job and was abou to start on my car! So, I had a moan and sat down with a cup of coffee. About half an hour later, I was informed that I needed a new tyre and the support ring was ok. Good news eh? Well, sort of. The dealer then told me that they don't have a tyre in stock and couldn't get one until tomorrow! So, basically, I kicked off .

They'd had FIVE days to get a tyre in and now, I was stranded. Luckily, the wife managed to come and pick me up but, tomorrow, when my puncture is finally sorted, the wife is at work, so I'm going to have to shell out for a taxi to get me to the dealer to pick my car up. I tried a couple of the independent tyre fitters on the list that are on the run flat thread and they were a lot more expensive than the dealer AND further away. So, one puncture equals being off the road for almost a week!!! I am seriously f***ed off with the T180 now and can't wait to get rid of the !Removed! thing. A puncture I can live with, runflats I can live with, the cost I can live with. Waiting and dealing with incompetence I cannot live with.

Hi , I posted in several other T180 run flat threads on here, when we had our T180 I had the support rings taken out , I posted photos of how to do it , maybe someone here could post a link to my description on how its done?

Once the support rings are removed you can just fit normal Dunlop(£100 each) or Bridgestone (£140 each) tyres and never have to worry about this again , you will probably want to pick up a spare wheel to keep in the boot in case you get a puncture. That way you will never have to rely or be disappointed by the dealer as you can fix a puncture or have the tyre changed anywhere.

Cheers

[petee99d]

Daron, I've seen your posts on removing the support ring and it's a practical solution to a problem which shouldn't exist in the first place. If all Toyota dealers ran a wheel exchange system (like many BMW dealers do), people like me wouldn't have to wait 6 days to get a puncture sorted out. I've been looking for an extra wheel but to no avail.

[MarsKy]

Daron, I've seen your posts on removing the support ring and it's a practical solution to a problem which shouldn't exist in the first place. If all Toyota dealers ran a wheel exchange system (like many BMW dealers do), people like me wouldn't have to wait 6 days to get a puncture sorted out. I've been looking for an extra wheel but to no avail.

An option is to get the dealer to put the wheel on the Bridgestone device to take the tyre off. As I understand it, the device can also take the ring off without the need to take a grinder to it. So get the ring off it too and then get a normal non-run-flat tyre fitted. Then you're 1/4 of the way to a normal setup.

[anchorman]

Daron, I've seen your posts on removing the support ring and it's a practical solution to a problem which shouldn't exist in the first place. If all Toyota dealers ran a wheel exchange system (like many BMW dealers do), people like me wouldn't have to wait 6 days to get a puncture sorted out. I've been looking for an extra wheel but to no avail.

I can understand EXACTLY how you feel. I think this whole TGB/Bridgestone cartel is an absolute farce and I have said so from the start. You are right - every dealer should have at least one tyre in stock - we are talking about a tyre for f- heaven sake.

Shame on you Toyota for even considering this fiasco money making scam in the first place and shame on you by not making sure that you go at least some way towards addressing by making damn sure your dealers are equiped to deal with the confounded things - it is the very least you could do.

The new range of RAVs hails some good news in that the despicable things have been dropped but bad news for T180 owners in that the volumes are now unlikely to ever justify some common sense pricing and support.

Whoever it was within TGB/Bridgestone that colluded in that deal is no better than a bent bank manager and should be sacked and jailed.

[Stupidmia]

It never dawned on me that the new Rav4s with 18" wheels were no longer going to be runflats :o

Are Bridgestone/Toyota always going to offer the tyres/service? What if they decide it's not feasible to manufacture the tyres, in what will be relatively small amounts?

I wonder how much it would cost to purchase a set of the new 18" alloys and a repair kit? I imagine though, that it would be cheaper to buy different alloys/tyres from elsewhere!

If you do go for the different alloys on a SR180 (or T180)....what size/tyre combination would they need to be?

[DaronB]

It never dawned on me that the new Rav4s with 18" wheels were no longer going to be runflats :o

Are Bridgestone/Toyota always going to offer the tyres/service? What if they decide it's not feasible to manufacture the tyres, in what will be relatively small amounts?

I wonder how much it would cost to purchase a set of the new 18" alloys and a repair kit? I imagine though, that it would be cheaper to buy different alloys/tyres from elsewhere!

If you do go for the different alloys on a SR180 (or T180)....what size/tyre combination would they need to be?

Alot of folk don't seem to understand , the run flat tyres are not special in any way , they are just standard tyres with a support band inside , the support band is supposed to support the tyre if it goes flat allowing you to drive a short distance to get it repaired , its a kind of military application like the system used in VIP protection cars so the car can drive even if the tyres are shot out, problem is its not a practical system for road cars with so few places able to work with it , my tyre fitter also said if you drive anywhere around 10 miles on a flat the tyre will be destroyed and quite possibly the band too , having driven on a flat in our Rav I can honestly say it just feels like driving on a flat , quite un-nerving.

Most run flat systems now are hardened sidewall tyres which are so strong at the sides that they can't go flat.

In answer to your question the tyres fitted with the bands are just normal tyres the same tyre size as you will refit after you remove the support bands. I doubt Toyota will be willing to remove the support bands but who knows I did'nt ask . There were two makes available when I changed ours Dunlop at £100 each and Bridgestone at £140 each , I asked if a hardened sidwall tyre was available in that size but its not , apparently the tyres are the same size as used on some Lexus models which don't have run flat systems. Your Toyota 18" alloys are just normal alloys once the band is removed , the only problem with using a repair kit with tyreweld as we did is that if you ever have to use it the tyreweld will wreck the tyre pressure sensor inside the wheel , the TPS system can be disabled though.

Otherwise best just to keep a spare wheel or space saver in the boot if you can get one the correct size.

Hope this helps.

[petee99d]

When the farce with my T180 is over, I'm giving serious thought to buying a set of 5 new aftermarket alloys and tyres. I can then sell the standard alloys and tyres to recoup the cost. Or, I might just sell the damned thing. The pleasure of owning such a well equipped car has been totally soured for me.

[DaronB]

When the farce with my T180 is over, I'm giving serious thought to buying a set of 5 new aftermarket alloys and tyres. I can then sell the standard alloys and tyres to recoup the cost. Or, I might just sell the damned thing. The pleasure of owning such a well equipped car has been totally soured for me.

Why ? There is no need to waste money on another set of alloys, my tyre fitter did'nt charge anything to cut off the bands and as I said once they are gone you have a standard set of alloys , as someone pointed out on here the T180 was available in Europe with or witout run flats and the alloys were the same. I think those alloys suit the car.

[kammy1975]

When the farce with my T180 is over, I'm giving serious thought to buying a set of 5 new aftermarket alloys and tyres. I can then sell the standard alloys and tyres to recoup the cost. Or, I might just sell the damned thing. The pleasure of owning such a well equipped car has been totally soured for me.

Why ? There is no need to waste money on another set of alloys, my tyre fitter did'nt charge anything to cut off the bands and as I said once they are gone you have a standard set of alloys , as someone pointed out on here the T180 was available in Europe with or witout run flats and the alloys were the same. I think those alloys suit the car.

Im with DaronB on this one. Why throw good money away when the solution is on your doorstep. I have had my T180 for 3 months now, and although it has its flaws, I think its not only better looking than everything else in its class, but also a good sight better equipped. When friends have seen the spec and the vehicle they have automatically assumed its worth a great deal more, (even though it was new, I just bought it when it had depreciated seriously !)

Dont let Toyota GB and Bridgestone win, get yourself down to your local tyre fitter, and get those support bands chopped off !

As for a spare, eBay is littered with wheels that you could use as a replacement. You dont have to necessarily buy the same matching alloy, as its only to save you on that rare occasion you have a flat.

I had a BMW Z4 some years ago, which had real run flats, and after having a new pair of tyres fitted to the rear of the vehicle for the ridiculous cost of nearly £400 (that was the cheapest from mytyres.co.uk) and getting a puncture in the first 500 miles (nail from neighbours newly fitted roof !) the tyre was seen as scrap, as your not allowed to repair the puncture, even though i barely drove a mile before the warning system (crappy system which works off the ABS sensor) told me of the tyre failure.

So dont give up on your T180, it will repay you one day ! ;)

[kammy1975]

Just find this on eBay, ideal to carry as a spare. Tyre looks to be as new, and the fact its 17" doesnt matter, as the profile of the tyre makes up for the smaller wheel diameter.

Ebay Link

[petee99d]

To conclude this shameful episode, I finally got my car back this afternoon. I'd spent half an hour on the phone to Toyota "customer relations" just to hear a load of sales patter from someone who clearly knew f**k all about the run flat situation and just thought I was after something for nothing! They couldn't grasp that I was telling them that it was their fault that the situation existed in the first place! I also had a phone call this morning from the dealership, asking if I was completely satisfied with my service! I explained that I was far from completely satisfied and my car was still at their :censor: dealership.

When I went to pick my car up (after having to get a taxi), a "service" assistant handed me an invoice for £40 more than I'd been quoted for a new tyre. So, after days of bulls**t and stress, I completely lost it. Someone threatened to have me ejected from the showroom! (My response to this was "bring friends, lots of them!"). Eventually, because customers were leaving the showroom, they reduced the invoice to what I had been quoted.

It didn't quite end there. When I went out to my car (whose wheels still bore mechanics dirty fingerprints), there was a little sign hanging from the mirror saying "Would you like to know how much your car is worth against a new Avensis?". So, I marched back into the showroom, asked for the sales manager and then told him where he could stick his sign, his dealership and his brand.

[anchorman]

It never dawned on me that the new Rav4s with 18" wheels were no longer going to be runflats :o

Are Bridgestone/Toyota always going to offer the tyres/service? What if they decide it's not feasible to manufacture the tyres, in what will be relatively small amounts?

I wonder how much it would cost to purchase a set of the new 18" alloys and a repair kit? I imagine though, that it would be cheaper to buy different alloys/tyres from elsewhere!

If you do go for the different alloys on a SR180 (or T180)....what size/tyre combination would they need to be?

New wheels are shown in here;

Tyre_and_wheel.pdf

[petee99d]

Just find this on ebay, ideal to carry as a spare. Tyre looks to be as new, and the fact its 17" doesnt matter, as the profile of the tyre makes up for the smaller wheel diameter.

Ebay Link

Thanks for that. I bid on it and won it. Now to work out where to put it! I've been looking at the little hidey holes under the boot floor and am wondering, if I remove the plastic trays, will there be room for the spare in there? Failing that, I'll just strap it between the parcel shelf and the rear seats if I go further than 30 miles from home.

As and when I get any more punctures on the runflats, I'm just going to cut the tyre and support ring off and pop to the branch of Kwik Fit that's 100 metres from my house and give them my money instead of Toyota.

[kammy1975]

Just find this on ebay, ideal to carry as a spare. Tyre looks to be as new, and the fact its 17" doesnt matter, as the profile of the tyre makes up for the smaller wheel diameter.

Ebay Link

Thanks for that. I bid on it and won it. Now to work out where to put it! I've been looking at the little hidey holes under the boot floor and am wondering, if I remove the plastic trays, will there be room for the spare in there? Failing that, I'll just strap it between the parcel shelf and the rear seats if I go further than 30 miles from home.

As and when I get any more punctures on the runflats, I'm just going to cut the tyre and support ring off and pop to the branch of Kwik Fit that's 100 metres from my house and give them my money instead of Toyota.

Good man ! The king is dead, long live the T180 :P

Thats exactly what I was considering. They obviously serve a purpose in terms of supporting the floor liner, but was tempted to remove them and see how much space there was exactly. If it will fit, I might be tempted to cut around the wheel so that I still have some cubby hole space, but at the same time store the spare.

Let me know how you get on !