Gt4 Engine Removal

[ajcluck]

yeah i have. but i think the exhaust cam was only 1 degree advanced and inlet was advanced by just two degrees

[dawesy]

my core was a 300 X 600 X 76mm one. might make some difference but not sore how much.

dont forget that although it spins free with over a bar of pressure pushing the opposite way it takes some effort, that coupled with needing to flow over twice the CFM that the engine uses to create positive pressure.

has any one else got the same turbo to compare spool?

[ajcluck]

What cams do you have on ur set up? I am currently running just the standard ones. Nope ain't heard of anyone else with this turbo. Can u think of any other reason for poof pick up?

[Fawbs]

bigger cams would help but what hp you aiming for?

[dawesy]

yeah im on stock cams and manifolds ;)

[ajcluck]

what degrees have you set ur cams at? i am then gona put it down to leeking intercooler joints and to big a core! back to the drawing board

[Fawbs]

This is the core i am using

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MITSUBISHI-LANCER-EVO-8-LARGE-INTERCOOLER-GOOD-4-650BHP-/400168335329?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d2be437e1

If that is the same as mine and i suspect it is it fits perfectly, you have a few mm clearance to the crash bar so i prc'd some heavy duty foam patches in case of chafing etc and created some 'L' shaped brackets from underneathe to support it, really easy to do.

[Fawbs]

i'll see what dan was on his cams on the oc, think he did a bit of research into it.

[ajcluck]

Cheers fawbs. I spoke to the lads at forge and have ordered a custom made core it has reduced the core size by over 85% and is gd for over 600bhp. Not sure if the math is as simple as a reduction in core size of 85% will reduce lag by 85% but it will help.

[Fawbs]

I wouldn't worry too much mate, intercoolers seem to be a bit of a dark art into which is best etc. The thing that makes sense to me is long gradual end tanks help the air spread nicely, then there's core design which im not too sure about etc

[Fawbs]

OK this was dan's reply i thought it would be a case of advancing or retarding the cams but he's added a little more, think lee or chris may be able to make sense of this more:

Ermm, I think the best I found was about 2 advance on the inlet, and 1 or 2 degrees !Removed! on the exhaust for a quicker spool yet retaining some sort of powerband further up the rev range (nice torquey pull to it rather than peak bhp). What cams is he using?

One thing he could do is try running a similar mapping strategy to me. Run 12.5-12.8:1 AFR in the spool region and about 20 degrees timing at 2800rpm and 100 Load (0 Boost). Then taper quickly down to 6 degrees at 3500rpm and 1 Bar boost. Then it has to be merged in with the existing timing and fuelling maps. That should get it spooling well though. He might have to play with the rpm range that it's applied to as I'm not sure just how quick a GT35 can be made to spool.

I got this off an Evo <?> forum ages ago but it seems to work well on the Faff.

Also be aware that mapping to optimise spool might actually make for a slower car, because by pulling timing and thereby producing hot exhaust gas for the turbo you are also robbing the engine of 'grunt', as it requires ignition advance to produce torque. Also by opening the cams up you are letting out the gas sooner.

[GTForbes]

We never even got round to the mapping stage, after dialing the cams, broken wires and computer crashes we got out on the road, brought it onto boost and it started blowing pipes off.

I've suggested to Adair to reduce the diameter of his hot side of the I/C piping, the reduction in core size and we should have a less laggy monster ready for mapping, the trouble is the size of turbo. Although it is a very free spinning one it is huge! It won't need to run a lot of boost as it will be flowing massive amount of air but since the engine is built for big boast we shall lol

[Fawbs]

What size diameter pipe is aj running? How big is this core cause it sounds humungus you will have to get a picture of it ha.

A general rule of thumb for 2" pipework is that it can go to about 400/420 bhp max so i've been told. 2.5" which is what i'm using well i'm not sure where the limits are for that and 3" i don't know anyone who has run that big a pipe.

Chris you planning on getting back in the game and getting another four?

[GTForbes]

I'm not sure what it was but the hot side I'm sure was the same size as the cold side and they were pretty big. Dropping a pipe size on the hot side won't restrict the airflow enough to reduce power. Fensport used to manage 500+bhp with a small intercooler core and 1.5 or 2 inch intercooler pipework on both sides.

I'm hoping to begin shopping in the summer, the monies waiting I just don't have enough time, in work I have 2 celica projects, 2 light weight subaru's and an old golf gti. I'm hoping one of the Subaru's will be leaving Monday after a re-map then the 2 celica's in the coming weeks. Once their done the boss's Subaru will be getting our attention, looking to get 400ish on the standard engine so alot of prep work is needed so it doesn't blow on the first day out lol

[Fawbs]

apparently its the gearbox that is very weak on the subaru's and i'm sure the conrods are very thin at a certain point.

[GTForbes]

Yeah the early box's are soft which is why we're limiting it to 400 this year. It'll probably still distroy the box even without the launch control and flat shift.

[Fawbs]

RIght looking at getting the power fc after christmas, may have mentioned this before but there is specific map sensors and boost solenoids for this ecu but can other map and boost solenoids be wire up to it? I'm guessing all ecu's use similar plugs?

[GTForbes]

The power fc generally requires the apexi boost control kit for cars which don't have a boost control solenoid as standard.

The boost sensor is changeable to others I'm sure, will double check tomorrow, just remember that the standard fuel cut won't be active as your replacing the ECU which would normally cut it

[ajcluck]

yeah it is 2.5inch all the way through. With regards to the cams that is the exact set up i have at the mo. the rest was way over my head.

[dawesy]

2.5" will be fine, that's all im running. I knew some one running 3" and the celiac it was on was over 600bhp.

To get quick spool you need to trade off against raw power to be fair. As said increasing the advance , spark occurring earlier causes more cylinder pressure but less energy in the exhaust.

[Fawbs]

Guys if you know anyone or anywhere selling an apexi power fc please let me know, preferrably with the commander. These usually go for about 550-650 sometimes cheaper as i've seen 2 go for 470, don't really want to go over 600 but will do if its in the region as the only ones up at the moment are like 900 smackers. I should have got one when i was looking at them before and they were all 600 quid or less :S By the way if you find the pro version don't tell chris haha, looking at getting one after christmas but i'd be willing to put a deposit on one in december if thats negotiable but i'm something can be worked out if its a private seller.

Lee hows the mr2 coming along?

[GTForbes]

Do you want me to see if our supplier has any? Will be a fresh import from japan.

As for the pro I've been doing a little reading lol, I origionally thought the pro was just the software but it turns out you get pro units which have a different chip. The chip changes the fuel cut rev limit to a spark cut and also allows launch control.

If the prices don't drop you'd be better getting a link g4 or Vi-PEC V44 or something like that, I think they retail at £900+ VAT to Joe public. How close are you to Thor racing?

[dawesy]

mike the MR2 is coming along slowly.

nearly finished stripping the rolla so once that's out of the way i can start on the MR2 in earnest.

sold the full conversion package i had up for sale , that goes end of the month so ill have some cash to get some bits.

just want to tidy up the engine before it goes back in really. also want to make a top mount tubular manifold as well.

ill keep my eyes open for a power fc for ya. MR2 one would fit as well wouldn't it?

[Fawbs]

I'm not too far, lee's found me a link g3 for 450 if we can get it.

I'm guessing its in better condition then the black mr2?

[dawesy]

erm yeah although that wouldnt be hard.

not had a proper look underneath yet but cant see any rust at all. has been treated underneath as well from what i can tell.

i posted to let that guy know you want the ecu. ask him if hell do it for £450 posted although he's only staffordshire any way.

see what happens.

plan for the mr2 is keep it sensible ie full interior , im not going to try and break any records with it just have fun. going to look at the fuel system and cams and try for around 550bhp if poss. not sure if you can count that as sensible though