The Buying Journey With Toyota (avensis Tourer)

[Geordie Mick in Wigan]

I recently had a choice of a new company car, our MD had decided that he'd get rid of the troublesome Vectra's that spent most time in garage and we could buy any car within certain parameters. So I was offered Audi', BMW, Toyota, VW, Skoda, Ford, Mercedes and Honda, any family sized model as long as the CO2's were under 160Kg's. We could specify a local dealer who would deliver the car and Arval (lease company) would buy it through them.

The Ford Mondeo Zetec was my 'base cost model', if my chosen car's life cycle costs were less than this I'd get cash back or if they were more I'd have to pay the difference. As you'd imagine, a Mondeo with 100K is worth :censor: all after three years it made the premium models look attractive because for very littel money I could have a german rep mobile, except I've had a few over the years and I didn't want to wait 12 weeks as I had to suffer in a vectra til my chosen car came.

I really liked the avensis on the basis the T4 had a great spec and the low emissions helped with the tax bill, also liked the Verso as it offered 7 seats. Looked at s Skoda Superb but when the costs came in it was shelved, too expensive as it depreciates badly, so I contacted local Toyota dealers to test drive.

H W Moon in Wigan: called three times and no call back. Went down and asked to see sales manager to complain the fleet fella wasn't calling me back. Was told he was busy delivering cars, another salesman took me for a spin in Verso and whilst it was nice, the rear two seats were tiny and thought may as well go for Avensis Tourer. They didn't have one but the fleet man would arrange one through Toyota Fleet. Said fleet man turned up and had chat with me, basically told me he didn't call me back as it was pointless because Arval wouldn't buy it through them anyway and was a waste of everyone's time. I re-iterated that I had the coice to specify a dealer and he basically told me I was wrong.

So I got in contact with RRG Salford. Spoke to them, they told me to give them the details and then had their fleet rep ring me to say Arval had put my car on their quoting system, he had it and would quote for it, they normally hit the spot on price and should be successful. I then spent 4 weeks constantly hassling for test drive. Eventually got in one and then decided I'd have the £1500 premium audio/sat nav/reverse camera. Asked for details of the HDD stereo and nobody had any. By this time I had to be quick and make a firm choice so ordered a T4 Tourer with premium audio.

The car was due to be delivered late August, we'd asked it to be delivered and registered on a 59, Arval siad yes no problem. Week later, it's 'accidentally' been registered by dealer on an 09, so my 'new car' was new for about 8 days.

The car is extremely well built and was giving more toys for my buck than any german car on my list would. Started to navigate my way around the HDD stereo and find out that you can only upload music using CD's. Can't plug cable in and upload MP3's, HAS to be original CD (not CDR), the last time I bought a CD was years ago. So my legitimate music library in iTunes is useless. Rang Toyota GB who confirmed this to be the case, they're taking a copyright stance on this, even though a conventional CD player will play CDR"s with bootleg music

So I inquired about having the Ipod cable that controls your Ipod from steering wheel, it's essentially a cable that replaces the AUX jack in centre console with a USB jack. I can't have it, it only fits the standard stereo's, I presume it's because they normally plug into a compact disc changer port in back of stereo, but you wouldn't need a CDC with a 10Gb hard drive so the manufacturer hasn't put one. Again, why would you want to out an iPod on your stereo with a huge hard drive, well you would if you can't get your music on it!!

Playing around with the stereo I found out my Sony Ericsson C905 can be used as a portable bluetooth stereo whilst my HTC touch company phone is still connected as a phone. Great, but decrypting everything from iTunes is a real pain in bum, especially with 4,000 songs.

I went back to HW moon's to get a rubber boot liner, ordered it and as I was walking out the door asked the price and was told £140! I gave him the part number and I knew one of my colleagues had bought one but it was about £60. Next day it turns up and the fella had ordered the new cloth mat instead.

Wanted a tow bar fitted, had only received a memo from our fleet woman saying that from now on, all tow bars MUST be OE, the main culprit was an Avensis that had a failed stereo, according to the dealer it was because the tow bar's wiring kit wasn't OE, so Arval billed the company the £600 it cost to rectify the problem.

I came on this site, found the 'tech docs' website and identified that I wanted a 13pin wiring kit to go with bar. I have a Thule bike rack that has 13pin, a horse trailer with 13pin and we may dip into caravanning in future so 13pin is the way to go. Downloaded the instructions and part numbers and off to HW Moon's again.

ME "I'd like to order a tow bar and wiring kit please"

HWM "what's you reg?"

ME "says reg"

HWM " that wiring kit's not listed for you car"

ME "what avensis does that wiring kit fit then? It says on these fitting instructions Avensis Wagon, 03/09 onwards"

HWM " I don't know what it fits it just doesn't fit yours"

ME " I'm sorry but I've read these instructions and it in no way says it excludes any models"

HWM " you can have the twin sockets or a single 7 pin one, but not the 13pin"

ME " the 13 pin is the same wiring as the twins except the cables end at the plugs in one instead of two, plus the bar only has holes for one socket anyway!"

HWM "well on your head be it, if it doesn't fit we can't take it back!"

ME "don't worry, it'll fit"

I'd seen a part numbered tool for pulling a wire from the reverse light plug and asked how much to buy the tool, a little 0.2mm flat screwdriver, I was told to sit down, £34!!!!!! To be used once only!

Next day, it's arrived and again I'm warned if it doesn't fit I'm stuck with it. My tow bar fitter turns up (who's dead set against the vehicle specific kits because the 7 way bypass does the job) and see's the wiring kit and has a fit. It says 90 mins fitting time for kit and an hour for the bar. THe bar goes on in half an hour without removing the bumper as the instructions state (justifying dealer fitting time???) and then he starts the loom. 3.5 hours later and most of the nearside interior removed, he gets to the last two wires. The instructions are world wide and have only pictures, we get to the point were we were stuck. So I called the dealer and asked if their sparky could identify them, well as predicted I was told I was categorically told it does not fit my car and all I could do was take it all off and buy the correct one :censor:

So I called Toyota GB and was told I'd have to speak to Technical, but because i', not a dealer I have to call them on the 0906 number at £1.75min. I told them to go and :censor: themselves.

Called the dealer up again and begged them to allow me to bring it down and just see what the situation was but was told that why would they take a fitter off a job who was earning them £75 an hour to look at something that doesn't fit?? I was livid, took me and tow bar man down and demanded they at least look at this, they sent out a sparky who sorted it in two minutes and said that 'oh yes, it's these new 13pin sockets, fitted on last week" I KNEW that Toyota wouldn't release a tow bar wiring that wouldn't work across the range.

Wiring loom now in place, boot put back together all working well.

Car got 4K on already and really pleased, but has a few foibles:

Electronic park brake doesn't activate when you switch engine off, few times got out and the car's rolling away!

Dealers just know nothing unless it's listed on a computer

Steering in fast corners is abysmal, really heavy, lots of body roll

Can't mute the instructions on sat nav

reverse camera has a biased to one side, impossible to use to navigate, only a visual confirmation that there are no objects behind you. It should have acoustic sensors too, it's actually less effective than sensors.

HDD Stereo is useless, even discs that are 7 years old aren't listed on the greencote database, you have to enter all data manually on the touchscreen

The sat nav has 2008 software on it.

Engine is really harsh over 3K

The bootspace is lined in beige, wouldn't you think it would be a dark colour in the boot?

The indicator stalks and switchgear are from a 1998 corolla

The cliamate control LCD's are from a 1970's casio calculator and different colour to speedo binnacle, when you put sunglasses on you can't see the digits as the liquid casts a 'rainbow' over the digits.

Accessories are priced unrealistically

Fog lamp accents, bits of chrome around the fogs: £170

Lower spoiler accent, a chrome strip (£29.99 at halfords) £190

The good bits:

Supremely comfortable, quiet and relaxing car to drive

Leather upholstery is really good quality

it's averaging 43mpg, which for me is a real first, quite heavy footed.

Very spacious cabin, lots of space for everyone and hoards of oddment space

quite a high seating position, MPV like and you don't 'fall into it' when the seats on the lowest position

Good towing car, pulled a horse trailer and Pony weighing 1500Kgs without too much drama (if any)

Good boot size and oddment storage in floor

Plenty of drinks holders and 12v power

Privacy glass is very dark, keeps heat out of car

All in all a great car that I'm really enjoying but have found anything other than the car with toyota on it to be a complete bind to work with.

[KPARRIS-JONES]

What an essay! Was pleased to see the end :P

Seemed to be many good and bad bits with your Toyota experience.

Parts are usually VERYexpensive when you buy from Toyota, I got a quote for £500 to replace all the valves on my 16v 4A-GE!!!!

[Karma Supra]

Dealers are expensive, always will be, Toyota are infamous for expensive parts. One should also not mistake main dealer "fitters" for "mechanics".

They are not. they don't fix things they replace parts, as per a manual. If the manual does not cover that specific application they struggle. -and that is not limited to toyota I'm afraid!

A business partner of my dad's was moaning the other day, he cas called mercedes three times to try and order a brand new CLS 65 AMG and no one has bothered getting back to him! Clearly the dealers aren't as hard hit and desperate for business as they keep making out!

[Phoenix999]

mmmmm interesting regarding your experience with your local dealer.

If the ICE was never designed to take an Ipod then a modification would never be the easiest thing to do but then why not have a chat with your local ICE supplier and surely they will have a greater knowledge of how to do this.

I read your list with interest so I'll respond one by one:

1. Electronic park brake doesn't activate when you switch engine off, few times got out and the car's rolling away!

Sorry but I have always applied the brake before leaving the car.... unless I know it will not roll away! Easy really.

2. Dealers just know nothing unless it's listed on a computer

Have a chat with the senior technician, I have always had a decent experience when chatting with them.

3. Steering in fast corners is abysmal, really heavy, lots of body roll

The Avensis is not a sports car, it is a heavy family plodder so why drive it fast into corners.

4. Can't mute the instructions on sat nav

I like to listen to instructions when driving as I prefer to watch the road instead of the map.

5. reverse camera has a biased to one side, impossible to use to navigate, only a visual confirmation that there are no objects behind you. It should have acoustic sensors too, it's actually less effective than sensors.

Yes it does have a slight bias simply because of the position of the camera, it is not central. There is nothing wrong with the camera and is far more accurate that sensors.... I have both so talk from experience.

6. HDD Stereo is useless, even discs that are 7 years old aren't listed on the greencote database, you have to enter all data manually on the touchscreen

That is not the fault of the Gracenote software, if the info is not on the CD then there is nothing for the ICE to read.

7. The sat nav has 2008 software on it.

Yes it would have as maps are not updated every year by Ordnance Survey.

8. Engine is really harsh over 3K

I disagree as my engine is sweet until it gets higher than 5K.... get it looked at.

9. The bootspace is lined in beige, wouldn't you think it would be a dark colour in the boot?

No

10. The indicator stalks and switchgear are from a 1998 corolla

Who cares so long as they work nicely, why re-invent the wheel? They look fine to me and everyone else that has seen the car.

11. The cliamate control LCD's are from a 1970's casio calculator and different colour to speedo binnacle, when you put sunglasses on you can't see the digits as the liquid casts a 'rainbow' over the digits.

I rarely wear sunglasses 'inside' the car.

12. Accessories are priced unrealistically

Accessories from all main dealers are the same. Toyota are no different.

Fog lamp accents, bits of chrome around the fogs: £170.... they are a Toyota part so they have you by the curlies

Lower spoiler accent, a chrome strip (£29.99 at halfords) £190.... sorry but Halfords do not sell such a part, this is a one piece part made for the Avensis so Halfords don't sell it.

I'm sorry if my reply seems a little harsh but I'm afraid I think you are dwelling upon negative views on areas of the car that do not deserve such views.

[DefiantFrog]

I'm sorry if my reply seems a little harsh but I'm afraid I think you are dwelling upon negative views on areas of the car that do not deserve such views.

Wow - defensive! The guy was only giving his opinions on his experiences, not looking for a slapping based on your own opinions! Good call on going to ICE Supplier though, and perhaps there is a connects2 type device that'll do it...?

[Phoenix999]

I'm sorry if my reply seems a little harsh but I'm afraid I think you are dwelling upon negative views on areas of the car that do not deserve such views.

Wow - defensive! The guy was only giving his opinions on his experiences, not looking for a slapping based on your own opinions! Good call on going to ICE Supplier though, and perhaps there is a connects2 type device that'll do it...?

No not defensive.... simply my given opinions as Mick gave his

[Karma Supra]

You'd be suprised about retro fitting iPod compatability, My car was never designed to have one, but an aftermarket kit plugs right into where the CD changer was and gives me full control, with names, track.artist/album searching, using the factory nav unit. Fantastic bit of kit, only cost £150 too and took minutes to install.

[Geordie Mick in Wigan]

You'd be suprised about retro fitting iPod compatability, My car was never designed to have one, but an aftermarket kit plugs right into where the CD changer was and gives me full control, with names, track.artist/album searching, using the factory nav unit. Fantastic bit of kit, only cost £150 too and took minutes to install.

As I said on my original post, can't fit one to the 'premium audio' as there's no CDC output, theory being why would you want a CDC when you have a 10Gb hard drive. Can always use the AUX input but doesn't charge/control the iPod

[Karma Supra]

You probably should have looked into it properly before ticking the box them ;)

I take it there is no CD changer then?

[Phoenix999]

You probably should have looked into it properly before ticking the box them ;)

I take it there is no CD changer then?

There is only a single CD facility on the new Avensis. It has the Hard Disk Drive to store up to some 100 tracks generally making the need for multiple CDs unnecessary

I don't know if some people regard this as a failing by Mr T when designing such an ICE system but it is ideal for me :) I think the new Prius has the identical system as an option.

[Karma Supra]

Yup seen it on other cars and always thought it was a little pointless...Only holding 100 tracks its a bit weak, especially as an "old fashioned" 6 CD changer would hold more and I'd imagine cost less, and an iPod port would potentially hold thousands, and get all the track names right. - and at least with an iPod you don't have to sit in the car to "load on" music.

[Phoenix999]

Yup seen it on other cars and always thought it was a little pointless...Only holding 100 tracks its a bit weak, especially as an "old fashioned" 6 CD changer would hold more and I'd imagine cost less, and an iPod port would potentially hold thousands, and get all the track names right. - and at least with an iPod you don't have to sit in the car to "load on" music.

Your observations are very correct.... maybe Toyota would be better placed to simply offer a standard ICE system and give an easy Ipod integration connection. It probably would be much cheaper that way

I know that I earlier said 100 tracks but somehow I think I am wrong and it may well be 200 tracks <_<

[Geordie Mick in Wigan]

Yup seen it on other cars and always thought it was a little pointless...Only holding 100 tracks its a bit weak, especially as an "old fashioned" 6 CD changer would hold more and I'd imagine cost less, and an iPod port would potentially hold thousands, and get all the track names right. - and at least with an iPod you don't have to sit in the car to "load on" music.

Your observations are very correct.... maybe Toyota would be better placed to simply offer a standard ICE system and give an easy Ipod integration connection. It probably would be much cheaper that way

I know that I earlier said 100 tracks but somehow I think I am wrong and it may well be 200 tracks <_<

If you have a normal 'non premium audio' stereo you can have a £150 kit that changes the AUX input in the centre console to a USB port for the iPod, colleague has done that and you can control your iPod from the steering wheel and charge it etc.

I've got 220 tracks on my HDD and it still has 57% capacity left, Id guess you can get about 500 tracks on the HDD, but you could put about 1,000 on an MP3 CD. The HDD would be far more user friendly if they supplied a cable where you could mass import music instead of recording it from CD's.

[Plutus]

Dealer probably registered it as 09 to get a quarterly bonus.

Don't think it was accidental at all.

[Phoenix999]

Yup seen it on other cars and always thought it was a little pointless...Only holding 100 tracks its a bit weak, especially as an "old fashioned" 6 CD changer would hold more and I'd imagine cost less, and an iPod port would potentially hold thousands, and get all the track names right. - and at least with an iPod you don't have to sit in the car to "load on" music.

Your observations are very correct.... maybe Toyota would be better placed to simply offer a standard ICE system and give an easy Ipod integration connection. It probably would be much cheaper that way

I know that I earlier said 100 tracks but somehow I think I am wrong and it may well be 200 tracks <_<

If you have a normal 'non premium audio' stereo you can have a £150 kit that changes the AUX input in the centre console to a USB port for the iPod, colleague has done that and you can control your iPod from the steering wheel and charge it etc.

I've got 220 tracks on my HDD and it still has 57% capacity left, Id guess you can get about 500 tracks on the HDD, but you could put about 1,000 on an MP3 CD. The HDD would be far more user friendly if they supplied a cable where you could mass import music instead of recording it from CD's.

Right so nearly 500 tracks on the HDD.... nice :)

I can honestly say that 500 tracks surely should be more than enough music for anyone although I do fully agree with your observation that a mass import facility would be useful

[Cyker]

I wonder if you can take the drive out and plug it into a computer? Loading it CD by CD is ridiculous!!

If there's a CD changer port, you're better off getting something like an XCarlink or PIE adaptor; I have one that uses SD cards and pretends to be a CD Changer, but you can get one for iPods too. Only downside is that it doesn't display track information, but maybe there are newer better ones that can (At least I think mine doesn't; My Yaris has a mono LCD matrix display for SatNav, but it only ever displays numbers so I'm not sure if it could be programmed to display track information!)

BTW, I'm not talking about AUX converters; Those just give you a stereo jack. The ones I mean let you control the playback using the steering wheel controls! Much niftier :)

Also, go rate your dealer on the front page - It's good to know which ones care and which ones just want your money and just shunt you out the door asap!

[Karma Supra]

There is an echo in here :D