Naughty Children

[zakelwe]

My 7 year old daughter doesn't seem to have any respect for me. Last night I was on the PC and she started tickling me so I tickled her back and then she constantly tickled me until I told her to stop as I was trying to see how little money I had in my bank. So she stops and spits on the side of my face.

She was told to go and sit on the naughty mat but it's like water off a ducks back. She also hits me when she doesn't get her way. She never does either to mum as she respects her. Later when we talked to her she lied and said it was an accident as she did not want to own up she had done it on purpose.

I'm debating whether the problem is me or her and whether I should be going down the old fashioned smack route or the more modern empathy and hugs route. Or perhaps that priest in the excorcist with his Holy water? OK, joking about that last option, I think .

Any thoughts?

Regards

Andy

[Hou]

Smack smack smack all the way, it was how I was brought up and taught me alot!

[Demonic Angel]

I don't have children, so probably has no right to comment, however I did study child psychology for a bit so here's my take.....

Basically, all children want attention and they don't care how they get it and a small child will soon figure out that they'll get more attention for negative behaviour than they will for positive behaviour.

ie.... your child draws a picture.... you say "yeah, that's lovely" and walk away

your child hits you..... you tell them off, ask them to apologise, tell them it's naughty to hit people....

Either way, the negative response lasts longer than the positive response, regardless of any shouting or upset that might take place.

A child soon realises that to get attention from Mum or Dad is to do something naughty.

So, the trick is, not to react as much when she spits or tells a lie. Explain to them calmly that it's wrong and tell them they must be punished and put them in their room... I think Supernanny calls this 'time out'

Anyway, they must complete 10 minutes of time out before they can come out and play. No communication, no hugs, no attention until this is done.

Once they have completed time out they are given the opportunity to apologise for their behaviour. If you get an apology, then they can have a hug and a kiss and all is forgotten. If not, the process starts again. It's this affirmation of positive behaviour that's the trick.

And when she does something good, really praise her for it, lots of kisses and cuddles to show that when she does something good, you'll give her more attention that when she does something bad.

Hope that helps.... I think Supernanny might have just been made redundant! :lol:

[zakelwe]

Thanks for the initial replies guys, 2 opposite sides of the spectrum, I'll wait to see what other people say too and get a concensus. Have to say, we use the naughty mat trick but it is only ME she does it to, so she is obiously more scared of what mum will do when the reaction occurs.

So maybe Hou is right and my reaction should be not worth the effort of goading ie too painful, or maybe I should give no reaction at all? Tricky.

They say children are the best thing since sliced bread, but I don't recall ever having this sort of trouble with a loaf of Warburtons.

Regards

Andy

[Karma Supra]

Yup, give them a smack. None of this "naughty step" nonsense.

Edit: I forgot to click submit lol

They say children are the best thing since sliced bread, but I don't recall ever having this sort of trouble with a loaf of Warburtons.

That is the best quote I have read in ages!

[Hou]

Well I know full well that the naughty step wouldnt have worked for me as a kid.

When you associate doing something bad with pain it soon stops you doing it. I know that when I knew I would get pain I would stop doing it, and my mum would use the threat of wait until your dad gets home, which the fear alone would stop me.

I am sick of this nanny soft state of giving them a time out etc. Isnt that what prison is in effect, time out and then get back out and reoffend. Imagine how empty the prisons would be if we had the death penalty or the cutting off a hand for stealing!

[balli hi]

Hi Zaklewe

I feel your pain ! , as my daughter regularly disrespects me also , the difference is , my daughter is now 17 , and trust me it does'nt get any easier , just yesterday for instance , she came home from college feeling tired , and decided to go to sleep on the front room sofa , my son however , who is 11 , wanted to watch tv and switched it on , she responded by hitting him on the knee with her mobile phone , i firstly told her off for hitting her brother , and secondly told her to go to bed if she wanted to sleep , her response was " f---k off you pr-ck " ... i won't bore you with what followed but basically the problems start from when they are very young , and its then that you have to deal with the problems before they get out of hand , like mine has .

Basically i feel the problems with my daughter are of my own making , because i've always been too soft with her and never smacked , ( As a young child i was physically abused by my father who would regularly beat me to a pulp , some of the things he did to me would make your hair stand on end . ) the beatings i took have left me psychologically scarred and its for those reasons that i never smacked my daughter, and probably been over protective of my children overall .

You have to somehow strike a happy medium , trying the things that Demonic Angle has suggested sound good , it won't hurt to try , but whatever you decide you need to act now , don't let things degenerate and end up in a situation like mine , as said my daughter is now 17 and has no respect for me or my wife whatsoever.

[Bizarra]

I'm afraid that I agree with Hou

When I was a kid & I can't remember whether that was before or after Noah's Ark I was smacked by my Mum if I did wrong, my Dad having died when I had just turned 4. She had to bring me up alone & once I scared the life out of her by going missing. I knew where I was but she didn't. That earned me a couple of whacks of a hairbrush on the bare bottom. I didn't do it again & it didn't mean that we didn't love each other to bits.

In Primary School we had to stand on a chair in front of the class to recite our poem for the day. If you got it wrong, you got a couple of whacks of the cane across the bare legs. You knew your poetry the next day

In Boarding School there was usually a line outside the Headmasters Study for caning & you weren't considered to have had a bad caning unless he broke the Light bulb raising the cane

We all grew up to be normal, well adjusted Adults with no psychological problems.

All that said, I never had to smack my Son, & my Daughter only once. She was looking at our goat in a field & turned on her heel & ran across the road without looking. I got such a fright that I gave her one welt on the bottom, without thinking.

[reece]

First of all I’m surprised as f**k that you have to post on the internet on how to control a 7 year old. What did your parents do when you were 7?

When I was a child I was disciplined in various ways including slapping, and I can tell you now that I never did what I did again. Years later I was to learn that they never hit me around the head, it was always the legs and backside. At the time obviously I thought I was hard done by, but as an adult and thinking back I wouldn’t change what they did and it kept me out of a lot of trouble.

If she spits in your face and you do nothing it then becomes acceptable. She got away with it once and will do it again. Unfortunately for you, if she does that to the wrong person she may end up with more than a slapped behind.

Children have to be trained, that is your job and responsibility so she grows up respecting you and knows right from wrong. We read too often of children committing all sorts of crimes, you really have to look at the parents.

Many many years ago my dad told me NOT to leave the back garden. I did, and went to my neighbour’s garden to play with my friend. When I returned I was sent to my room, he came up and gave me 6 of the best with his slipper. I still remember it to this day. My point being I knew that if my parents said XYZ then I knew they meant it and the consequences if I disobeyed them.

No such thing as bad kids, only bad parents. Spare the rod – spoil the child

[Calisto]

A short sharp shock should do the trick...raise your voice and scare the hell out of her, she needs to know that your not fooling around and that your are very peed of and angry with her.

Your the adult, she needs to respect that.

[cfc1]

A raised voice.. shout the life out of her and tell her to sit on her backside and not to move. If she moves.. shout again and threaten her with a good old fashioned sore asre, if she persists with misbehaving give her that promised sore asre she desrves.

No-one really likes hitting their kids.. but if it's the only way she is going to learn then so be it, thats how I was brought up and how I brought up my kids.

I remember when our oldest was about 4 years old, he was sitting next to me and misbehaving.. really annoying the hell out of me lol... I told him to stop but he didn't, so as he continued I counted...(in a stern voice) 1 - 2 - 3!!... then I smacked the back of his hand, he gave me a "what was that for" look and continued misbehaving... again, 1 - 2 - 3!! and I smacked the back of his hand, once again he kept being an annoying little git.. 1 - 2 -...... he moved his hand out of the way and behaved himself, I don't think he fancied getting his hand hit again

I can honestly say I've never had to hit my kids after learning all 3 of them like that, they knew what would happen if they misbehaved, I now have 3 boys who I can take anywhere and know that they won't embarrass me or their mum by misbehaving.

[Demonic Angel]

I remember being smacked as a child.... only once mind, because I generally was very well behaved, mainly because what my Dad said went.... and to this day I'll never cross my Dad. Mum was always a bit softer so as a child, you push boundaries.

It's easy to say "Give them a good smack".... but smacking is becoming less and less socially acceptable. You could discuss the pros and cons of the social benefits and factors for all eternity, but I'm sure there are prisoners in jail who were smacked as kids as well as those who weren't..... yeah it didn't do me any harm, or you, or anyone else.... I'm not against smacking per se, but then I don't have kids, so don't know how I'd react. I do know that smacking can have negative associations, such as kids smacking other kids because they get smacked at home.... it happens. If I saw a child being smacked however, I'd be mortified. Fundamentally it's an full-grown adult against a child....

If you can't control your child using non-violent measures first and foremost, then consider it.... don't just smack without trying anything else. That's my personal view on it.

[lil_me]

Never easy but it's a case of ignoring the bad and rewarding the good with most little ones. Attention seeking is what it sounds like she is doing, when she doesn't get the attention from the actually not so bad behaviour (tickling) it escalates. Some good reward resources on www.chartjungle.com (free)

[Phoenix999]

Children being what they are will push and push the boundaries testing you all the way. Set the boundary and if she steps over it a short smack and a seriously raised voice will more often than not shock her into understanding that you are angry.... for your own sanity.... show her who is boss.... YOU!

[GIDDLEPIN]

Misbehaved................................Got a slap

Talked back................................Got a slap

Lied...........................................Got a slap

Swore.......................................Got a slap

Touched something I shouldn't.....Got a slap

Not a mamby-pamby slap either, a good hard whack that left red marks that kids today would sue for.

Needless to say I consider myself to be a well brought up person with respect for people (who deserve it) of all ages, and as for my feelings towards my parents for administering those punishments.......Sadly they are no longer here but I still miss them like hell and wouldn't want to have been brought up any other way.

Thank you Mam & Dad ;)

[+Steve]

Well I know full well that the naughty step wouldnt have worked for me as a kid.

When you associate doing something bad with pain it soon stops you doing it. I know that when I knew I would get pain I would stop doing it, and my mum would use the threat of wait until your dad gets home, which the fear alone would stop me.

I am sick of this nanny soft state of giving them a time out etc. Isnt that what prison is in effect, time out and then get back out and reoffend. Imagine how empty the prisons would be if we had the death penalty or the cutting off a hand for stealing!

You didnt stay on the clubs naughty step either LOL only kidding

I am having problesm with my daughter at the mo, not with me but at childminders, so i know how ya feel, its hard to make the right decsision what to do.

[reece]

Thank you Mam & Dad ;)

Amen to that Sir Les

My mum use to count to 3, I quickly caught on not to get to 2 otherwise I would be punished. The secret is actually following through with what you say you are going to do, kids aren’t daft, and they need boundaries.

Good luck

[Karma Supra]

...but smacking is becoming less and less socially acceptable.

Further evidence, if evidence was needed of social decay and political correctness gone mad.

[★★★★★™]

Some of you guys were lucky to get slapped, i got a good old fashioned a-- beating. But looking back im happy my parents did, because i wouldnt be where i am now if it wasnt for them

On a side note, i dont think its wrong to hit your child, as long as you dont hurt them, and cause bruising. If you hit them once, you could use that to fear them, and discipline them better. There should be limits to how you hit your child, if its to discipline them, then yes, if its to vent your anger, then absolutely NO.

[zakelwe]

First of all I’m surprised as f**k that you have to post on the internet on how to control a 7 year old. What did your parents do when you were 7?

You must be even more surprised then to find so many books on the subject unless you think that when you open the front cover they just say "Go and ask your parents" inside What a silly comment, smacking your bottom obviously gave you brain damage :P

Anyhow, thanks for all the other sensible suggestions. The smacking route seems to be the most popular but I'm going against the trend and with Demonic Angel and will try the ignoring approach because it is attention seeking. I'll keep smacking to only if she hits other adults or children. The hitting out is a sign of frustration if she is being ignored. Also, as an only child I think she always feels at the bottom of the social pecking order and always being controlled. We are getting a dog soon so maybe she will be further up and it will help her relax more.

Regards

Andy

[Karma Supra]

Erm, a Child IS bottom of the pecking order. They should not feel otherwise!

If they do they will have a nasty shock when they go out into the real world!

[zakelwe]

Erm, a Child IS bottom of the pecking order. They should not feel otherwise!

If they do they will have a nasty shock when they go out into the real world!

Whenyou have more than one child they have their own pecking order or hierachy, with only one though they don't have that option. The dog will become lowest rung of the ladder. Well I hope so, maybe it will be boss :D

Regards

Andy

[Bizarra]

Em, for once I have to disagree with you :(

In your last post you said that if kids are smacked, they will run around smacking each other. I was brought up in an era when ALL kids were disciplined with a smack & we didn't run around hitting or smacking each other.Oh yes, there was the occasional playgound row, same as today, but it was not an everyday occurence.

Regarding "socially acceptable" you are on shaky ground. It is socially acceptable in certain circles to use cannabis & cocaine etc. That doesn't make it right.

Humanity, since it descended from the trees & probably before has given its offspring a thump when needed & we are what we are, good & bad.

In the animal kingdom the same happens. Cats give their kittens a swat or nip when necessary, as one example. The same applies to all the rest.

An occasional slap when needed teaches a lesson & the fear of another makes the child think before it acts.

[reece]

I'm debating whether the problem is me or her

I'm going against the trend and will try the ignoring approach

Spitting hitting and ignoring you and lying at 7 years old and you want to ignore her and buy a dog? Yeah that will do it

As I said, no such thing as bad kids, you are so setting yourself up for a heap of trouble in the years to come!

Poor kid :(

[Karma Supra]

Whenyou have more than one child they have their own pecking order or hierachy, with only one though they don't have that option. The dog will become lowest rung of the ladder. Well I hope so, maybe it will be boss :D

So you think they will consider themselves ranking with a dog, but not consider the adults in the house? That's messed up.

Of course children with no siblings have a pecking order... it should have you at the top and them at the bottom!

Would you take orders from an "equal"?