Naughty Children

[Demonic Angel]

Em, for once I have to disagree with you :(

In your last post you said that if kids are smacked, they will run around smacking each other. I was brought up in an era when ALL kids were disciplined with a smack & we didn't run around hitting or smacking each other.Oh yes, there was the occasional playgound row, same as today, but it was not an everyday occurence.

Regarding "socially acceptable" you are on shaky ground. It is socially acceptable in certain circles to use cannabis & cocaine etc. That doesn't make it right.

Humanity, since it descended from the trees & probably before has given its offspring a thump when needed & we are what we are, good & bad.

In the animal kingdom the same happens. Cats give their kittens a swat or nip when necessary, as one example. The same applies to all the rest.

An occasional slap when needed teaches a lesson & the fear of another makes the child think before it acts.

Anyone hitting anyone can have negative repercussions.... whether it's a child or an adult. I'm not saying it happens in all cases, but certainly in some. Because if the parent does it, the child thinks it's acceptable.... but then you go into the whole route of respecting people, kids these days have fairly easy lives, back in the day, it wasn't like that.... my family weren't very well off, we didn't get whatever we wanted so we made do. Socially, we're completely different today than we were 15-20 years ago. There are a wealth of factors that cause child behaviour problems and smacking is not always the answer, because in many cases the problems are deep-rooted and psychological.... more parents are splitting up, more children are spoilt little brats, there's no longer a 'one size fits all' solution.

And also 15-20 years ago you could probably smack a child in the street and not have a second glance.... nowadays you can't.... expect social services to be called. This is the way society has become, this isn't me making the rules and saying 'Don't smack because I said so'... this is me looking at society as it stands and saying 'Back then you could, nowadays is a different story'. Charlie is right, it is, in part, political correctness gone mad.

I'm not claiming to have all the answers, but it is something I've studied for a while and if it were me I'd much prefer to try a non-violent approach.... but as I said, I don't have kids, only cats.... and they're pretty well-behaved so I'm obviously setting myself up well for the children!

[Hou]

Em, you have a very interesting way of putting your Opinion across. And I hope your last paragraph was a joke!

I have 2 very well behaved Alsations, both big, strong and fast dogs, that have walked with a 3 year old holding the lead, because they have been trained well and know that if they step out of line they get a hit on the nose. Doesn't mean I would class myself as well set up for having kids. :P

As for kids behaviour, people look into it too much, think that a naughty child has some kind of condition, ADD or whatever it is called because they wont sit still.

Everyone will have a different opinion, thats exactly what it is, an opinion, but my parents taught ME well the way they taught me, and I will teach my kids the same way because I am proof it worked.

Once they have the respect for you (and are too big to hit) you can always play on their emotions "we aren't angry, just very disappointed with you" used to work with me

[zakelwe]

I'm debating whether the problem is me or her

I'm going against the trend and will try the ignoring approach

Spitting hitting and ignoring you and lying at 7 years old and you want to ignore her and buy a dog? Yeah that will do it

As I said, no such thing as bad kids, you are so setting yourself up for a heap of trouble in the years to come!

Poor kid :(

I assume you manage your children differently, either way we won't know until she grows up whether my approach is wrong or not, even then she might have been worse if I had smacked her more often, it will be impossible to tell. You can save your tears for kids properly mistreated by their parents.

If it is attention seeking then smacking is the wrong solution. I've smacked her in the past and she still does it, so all this "smack" them and they learn a lesson doesn't always work. I'll still use it where appropriate but as it hasn't worked up to now I have decided to go along with what Demonic said above to see if it works. It must have some sucess rate or it would not be a technique suggested by various folk.

Regards

Andy

[balli hi]

[

Anyone hitting anyone can have negative repercussions.... whether it's a child or an adult. I'm not saying it happens in all cases, but certainly in some. Because if the parent does it, the child thinks it's acceptable.... but then you go into the whole route of respecting people, kids these days have fairly easy lives, back in the day, it wasn't like that.... my family weren't very well off, we didn't get whatever we wanted so we made do. Socially, we're completely different today than we were 15-20 years ago. There are a wealth of factors that cause child behaviour problems and smacking is not always the answer, because in many cases the problems are deep-rooted and psychological.... more parents are splitting up, more children are spoilt little brats, there's no longer a 'one size fits all' solution.

And also 15-20 years ago you could probably smack a child in the street and not have a second glance.... nowadays you can't.... expect social services to be called. This is the way society has become, this isn't me making the rules and saying 'Don't smack because I said so'... this is me looking at society as it stands and saying 'Back then you could, nowadays is a different story'. Charlie is right, it is, in part, political correctness gone mad.

I could'nt agree more Em , i grew up in a family of 8 children .........yes 8 , my childhood memories are one's i wish i could erase , as i said in my first post my father was an extremely violent man , he would regularly come home drunk and beat my mother , i can still hear her screams , you don't forget something like that .

His idea of disciplining my brothers and me in particular , was to grab my hair and then bang my head off the wall or remove his belt and beat us , sometimes with the buckle end, not because i had been terribly naughty , but like most children i sometimes wanted something i could'nt have .

He would regularly beat my two elder brothers who in turn would often beat each other and then me ,( my eldest brother was a particularly nasty piece of work ), i in turn would regularly beat my younger brother , my sisters were violent too , i think violence breads violence .

However the non violent or non smacking approach has not worked with my daughter , i'm not saying that smacking should have been the answer , what i am probably trying to say is , i think my daughter would have turned out the way she is in any case , i think she has inherited some of my fathers psychotic jeans LoL , as individuals we are all different .

My wife and i have always tried to bring our two up the right way , in that they know right from wrong and how to behave in public, and believe it or not other parents often comment on what a lovlely person our daughter is ,how well mannered and polite she is ,( academically she is also quite bright , needs little motivation and regularly achieves high marks ) sometimes we tell other parents what she is like at home , and they can't believe we are talking about the same person , her bad behaviour is strictly reserved for us , people tell us that she will grow out of it , and i sincerely hope so , at the moment though it appears to be getting worse in that she has now started swearing at us , and thats where we are at with her at the moment.

My Son however is completely different to our Georgie , we have tried a slightly different approach with him in that on very rare occasions we have given him a smack on the bottom or the back of the legs or on the hand ,probably 4 or 5 times in eleven years , on occasions when we went shopping he would scream the place down when he wanted something and we often found ourselves cutting our shopping trip short because of this .

In the main though he is a loving and helpfull child always offering to help around the home and help with the cooking , i spend a lot of time talking to him , telling him right from wrong , explaining how he must never mock the afflicted , never hit girls , respect our neighbours , never steal or be tempted to steal ect, ect , his mind is like a sponge right now and he always responds with why ? and i take time to explain things to him .

He does occasionally try to push the bounderies , which is only normal for a child his age , but when i say no or stop, he knows i mean it , and stops , he definately respects my wife and i , and tells us every day how much he loves us , yes every day LoL . As said , completely different to his sister , i'm not sure that this is because he got a smack once or twice , but because its just the way he is as an individual , we are all different , all we can do as responsible parents is be good role models lead by example and do our best to ensure they turn out right , sadly for some that won't always be enough .

[JustJJ]

I was smacked... I think I've turned out ok hehe

Seriously tho, I dont honestly think there is anything wrong with a smack, its an instantly recogniseable 'i've done something wrong' thing. much easier to understand than 'go sit in the corner and think about what you have done' type stuff...

I definately dont agree with beating kids to within an inch of their life, but a smack on the back of the leg, bottom or arm serves its purpose to remind them what is right and what is wrong, as well as who is in charge.

I'm adopted, and I love my mum n dad to bits (adopted ones)... they brought me up well and I could only hope to be as good as them at parenting... but I was smacked if I was naughty, I see nothing wrong with it.

Your only real issue is because she is much older now, she has gotten away with things for a while... and so may take time to adjust to whatever you decide to do

Good luck

[Bizarra]

The translation from Canadian French is by Google, so slightly erratic. I think that this is very relevant to the discussion :)

http://66.102.9.132/translate_c?hl=fr&...R2Mc4ZPwC2Tx3Cg

[zakelwe]

Whenyou have more than one child they have their own pecking order or hierachy, with only one though they don't have that option. The dog will become lowest rung of the ladder. Well I hope so, maybe it will be boss :D

So you think they will consider themselves ranking with a dog, but not consider the adults in the house? That's messed up.

Of course children with no siblings have a pecking order... it should have you at the top and them at the bottom!

Would you take orders from an "equal"?

No. Where did you get that idea? Re-read what I said.

Yes, that is the problem. Re-read what I said.

Yes.

Back to the problem in hand, I've got a game plan and it seems to be working though it will take a long time of course.

Regards

Andy

[toyboata]

...When i was a kid (not that long ago i will add) - the "rules" so to speak were clearly marked out, and inforced.

If i did wrong it would be a smack on the *****, with my dads slipper, in the same place (it was this, hitting in the same place that hurt), and after being smacked, sent to my room, and made to stay there for a period of time.

If i did something good - i was well praised for it or rewarded in some way, maybe a choclate bar, a trip somewhere, money, or just being alowed to watch some tv program.

I also got the threat of "when your dad gets home...." but i also got threatend with being put in a youth hostal, chucked out, or bringing the police in...when so young it frightens you a bit into behaving well.

On one occasion i think my dad said "if you dont like it, pack your stuff, and GET OUT!!...see how long your can manage without us"

Looking back none of it was true, but as a kid, it does frighten you into being a bit more "two way" with your parents.

[s m smith]

Let-the kids do what they want, us parents will have the last laugh, leaving them a uninhabitable planet in 20 years time , we will get our own back for all the disrespect,

dont you just love the climate change

[Nerfie]

Next time someone cuts me up, I'm gonna do my best to stop them and give them a smack.

Hey, it's socially acceptable to give defenseless people who don't know any better a smack, why not adults?

I was never smacked, if I did something wrong it was explained to me.

Maybe I was just an incredibly bright kid, smarter then the ones that need to be smacked? Maybe I just had incredibly smart parents, who could explain the rights and wrongs to me? Maybe it was my love of Jet Set Willy, Alex Kid and Wonderboy? If I misbehaved, I wasn't allowed to play on them. I quickly caught on. Prehaps I am an exception to the rule? But considering it's like that across the family... maybe the family is the exception to the rule? I'm not sure. All I know is I work hard for what I have and I'd like to think I'm as honest as they come. Especially with all my extra charitable activities and services on the lifeboats. I can thank my parents for that, taught me through words and actions (lead by example) it's a far better life if you live it for yourself, work hard, educate yourself and play hard too.

If parents want to smack their kids, then thats fine. It doesn't affect me. But I fail to see why I can't then smack those parents for misbehaving. I mean, at least they can defend themselves and should know better from the word go, unlike a child who is still learning. Just my observation. I must admit I didn't read all the posts(just the majority), but I was a bit shocked that there is only two posters (I think) that's not automatically resulting to a violent solution. As I said, I'm not against it, but it seems a little hypocritical within society. You wouldn't treat rapists or pedobears like that, because you'd be pulled into court for assault and/or GBH... I think this is what it boils down to with me, I like to stick up for the smaller guy. Thing is, using fear of physical repercussions, or using fear full stop really is the text book definition of terrorism. Now I maybe wrong on this one, but being a terrorist is a socially unacceptable past time? Putting fear into children to get them to behave or learn, is pretty much the intention of Al'queda (Sp?) with their various attacks? To punish the Western World. I'm pretty sure that was socially unacceptable globally. Of course that's a very extreme example, but fundamentally, the message is the same "Listen to us/Do this/Don't do this, or we will hurt you" - Maybe thats just the view point from an idealistic youth though.

Of course I should add, I for one don't want to hit anyone anyone unless it's in self defence. Violence breeds violence in my opinion, and I've so far managed to avoid all manner of incidents using wit, charm and accepting the fact "I'm a coward homo" and all other manner of baiting tactics used by the local chavs that have drunk one too many smirnoff ices! But that's also another off shot from the MMA and Jui-Jitsu I learn - First lesson... avoid getting into fights at all costs. Now that sounds a little hypocritical of me, I know, someone that studies fighting but also dislikes violence... I've never worked that one out.. ;)

I'd agree that we are far too soft on Adults that misbehave, far far far too soft. Criminals no longer have human rights within society in my book. They gave them up when they set out to hurt other people in whichever way THEY choose to, be it physically, financially or mentally. Political Correctness gone mad again.

Btw, I don't have kids or intend to have them. Prolly should mention that. :)

[Steigers]

A short sharp shock should do the trick...raise your voice and scare the hell out of her, she needs to know that your not fooling around and that your are very peed of and angry with her.

Your the adult, she needs to respect that.

And if that doesn't work smack her.

The UN has reported that the UK's kids are pretty much the worst behaved in the world, highest rate of teenage preg's etc... etc.... My belief is that Labour have cobbed it right up, kids are relatively un-touchable now and they know it. A mate works in a young offenders institution and the kids under 16 can do £5k worth of damage before they get a any form of reprimand, and these are kids that are already inside for being idiots....

My old man took the belt and slipper too me, and my gran had the hardest smack in the world for an oldy. Did it stop me loving them, definitely not, in fact I loved them both more for the fact that they cared enough to make sure I did not grow up with no respect for anyone.

Obviously some kids will respond to just the scare tactic's, it didn't work on me - the slippers etc... certainly did.

I don't have kids yet, but I will not rule out physical punishment and I certainly won't worry about what other people think.

[jeneliachrist]

I think its better to spent some more time with your daughter.Play with her,enjoy with her.Present some gifts to her.

[zakelwe]

I actually ended up boring her to tears. She would hit me then I would go on and on and on and on about it for days afterwards and she soon gave up as kids hate preaching parents.

So the correct teaching method was nothing suggested by me or others?

Mind you, the new dog is growling at me now, any suggestions? :D

Andy

[KPARRIS-JONES]

I just read back through parts of this thread and to be honest with you, what action/tactics you chose to employ rely solely upon the child in question and their situation.

One member mentioned that they were never been smacked and that each wrong-doing was explained to them, and exactly what made it "wrong". This worked brilliantly with me too, if I am in trouble at school or at home, I ask precisely why it is that I am in trouble. I have never responded to a smack, only to reason.

Some children however, have no sense of "right" and "wrong", and do need the occasional smack around both sets of cheeks to know where they stand. Raising your voice was previously suggested, a tactic that has worked with me, but only when used when it really mattered. A child will need to have a firm idea of the various levels of acceptability of certain behavioural traits, i.e. if they get into a fit and throw things, the voice is raised. If they smash something, they are sent to their room. If they Hurt somebody, they are grounded. Once you establish each punishment "level" and which applies to each problem, then they will begin to have a better idea of how severe certain actions are. I think that it is all about structure, and everything being made clear to them. It's no good smacking a kid or raising your voice if they do not know why they are in trouble.

I do not know the children in question, so I could not possibly provide any reliable and valid information with a guarantee that it will apply and work with them, although I have said what I can and what I believe.

You know the children and what they react to, so apply whatever knowledge you deem to be most effective to them. :)

Being 15 I am a bit closer to childhood than many of you here :P and I could say a lot more but I am tired of typing now. What needs to be done is dependent upon the person(s) in question.

[Raistlin]

Being 15 I am a bit closer to childhood than many of you here :P and I could say a lot more but I am tired of typing now. What needs to be done is dependent upon the person(s) in question.

You write much older than your years...

You have learned much Grasshopper B)

But remember that old saying, if you can't beat'em

Whats the point in having kids.

[balli hi]

Being 15 I am a bit closer to childhood than many of you here :P and I could say a lot more but I am tired of typing now. What needs to be done is dependent upon the person(s) in question.

You write much older than your years...

You have learned much Grasshopper B)

I'd never have guessed if i did'nt know that Kp was 15 , a very level headed young man with wisdom beyond his years

[Bizarra]

Being 15 I am a bit closer to childhood than many of you here :P and I could say a lot more but I am tired of typing now. What needs to be done is dependent upon the person(s) in question.

You write much older than your years...

You have learned much Grasshopper B)

I'd never have guessed if i did'nt know that Kp was 15 , a very level headed young man with wisdom beyond his years

Enough :P You'll be giving the lad a big head & we'll have to take the p!ss out of him to bring him back to earth :lol2:

Only joking, as I hope you know, Kynan I agree with all the compliments paid to you

[Raistlin]

Being 15 I am a bit closer to childhood than many of you here :P and I could say a lot more but I am tired of typing now. What needs to be done is dependent upon the person(s) in question.

You write much older than your years...

You have learned much Grasshopper B)

I'd never have guessed if i did'nt know that Kp was 15 , a very level headed young man with wisdom beyond his years

Enough :P You'll be giving the lad a big head & we'll have to take the p!ss out of him to bring him back to earth :lol2:

Only joking, as I hope you know, Kynan I agree with all the compliments paid to you

Paid being the operative word... Kerr Ching ££££££ B)

[Jamesbelfast]

The person who says gettng smacked as a child never done me any harm doesn't realise it in effect has - think about it.:)

[Raistlin]

The Ramones had the best idea:

"Beat on the brat, beat on the brat, beat on the brat with a baseball bat O'yeah" :D

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Being 15 I am a bit closer to childhood than many of you here :P and I could say a lot more but I am tired of typing now. What needs to be done is dependent upon the person(s) in question.

You write much older than your years...

You have learned much Grasshopper B)

I'd never have guessed if i did'nt know that Kp was 15 , a very level headed young man with wisdom beyond his years

Enough :P You'll be giving the lad a big head & we'll have to take the p!ss out of him to bring him back to earth :lol2:

Only joking, as I hope you know, Kynan I agree with all the compliments paid to you

Paid being the operative word... Kerr Ching ££££££ B)

cheers :D

It's almost impossible to not be big headed at some point, so I don't feel too guilty when I slip into that state every once in a while. Feel free to take the micky, I got used to it after my first 3 years of school. You grow to laugh back at them. :P

Thanks again for the compliments. :)

[Raistlin]

You know what they say, If you can't fight wear a big hat

[Bizarra]

You know what they say, If you can't fight wear a big hat

or a cowl........ :hokus-pokus:

[Charlies Angel]

Hey, it's socially acceptable to give defenseless people who don't know any better a smack, why not adults?

if the discipline was in place from day one then they would know better!

my dad still scares the p88p out of me and i'm 27 purely by raising his voice, why is this? because the first time i got a real telling off and "the wooden spoon" i learnt that the loud shouty voice was not for show and it meant business.

he only shouts at the telly now, but that telly better watch it!! lol

[Raistlin]

You know what they say, If you can't fight wear a big hat

or a cowl........ :hokus-pokus:

And that's magic...