Air Conditioning Compressor

[dmacdou1]

Hi, sorry for hijacking your thread, but I have an AC related question as well. I think my AC(or at least the compressor)is working because the pipe frosts up when I switch it on, but the air coming out just doesnt seem all that cold, only slightly colder than ambient really.I'd expect it to be freezing.

Any ideas why this would be?

Also when the enginge is idling i think have that rattly sound someone mentioned earlier in the thread that goes away once the revs pick up, dont know for sure if its AC related or not though because its there regardless of AC switched on or off. Maybe the compressor on the way out?

[D4D2003]

Quote from Q S ...........

.............If it's noisy when the aircon is running, probably the compressor itself.

If it's noisy when the compressor isn't running, then it will be the bearings in the pulley

I got the air con bypassed with a shorter belt,and the noise is gone NO A/C NOW.Hopefully I can get a good quote from the person I contacted,and I let you all know about the price.

[dmacdou1]

Quote from Q S ...........

.............If it's noisy when the aircon is running, probably the compressor itself.

If it's noisy when the compressor isn't running, then it will be the bearings in the pulley

I got the air con bypassed with a shorter belt,and the noise is gone NO A/C NOW.Hopefully I can get a good quote from the person I contacted,and I let you all know about the price.

Would the "rattly" issue be causing the "not very cold air" issue though?

[Roker]

Hi everyone,Timing belt Paul here. I have another problem on my 2004 D4D Avensis. There has been a rattle from under the bonnet for ages now which has been getting steadily worse. I got a taxi home the other night [also a D4D Avensis] and was talking to the driver about a similar sounding rattle he had experienced. It turned out to be the air conditioning compressor, when he had it changed the noise stopped immediately. Apparently it can be a problem on this model because a friend of his had the same problem on his Avensis. Does anybody out there have any knowledge of this?

If it's noisy when the aircon is running, probably the compressor itself.

If it's noisy when the compressor isn't running, then it will be the bearings in the pulley.

The pulley rotates (via bearings) on the compressor shaft. When the air con is running, the clutch locks the pulley to the shaft to drive the compressor (bearings not turning).

Usually parts are available to repair the pulley/clutch assembly and can sometimes be done without removing/degassing the compressor.

The compressor itself is lubricated by oil in the system that is added when the system is charged with gas.

Hope this is of some help and may save you some money.

Thank You Q.S. I have been waiting for ages for a reply to this problem. I hardly ever use the air conditioning so don't see how I could wear it out. It does sound like bearing noise to me and I am sure it can be rectified without replacing the whole compressor unit .I will look into this and get back to you. Cheers mate, Regards,Paul.

I am having trouble with a small leak on the HP pipe from the condenser, according to the workshop manual it will cause problems with the compressor whether it is switched on or off due to lack of lubricant if there is no refigerant,

Quote:

"DO NOT OPERATE ENGINE AND COMPRESSOR

WITH NO REFRIGERANT IS FILLED

CAUTION:

This may damage the inside of the compressor because

the compressor parts always moves regardless of whether

the A/C system is turned on or off"

Their wording)

basically you cannot drive the car with no refrigerant.

This seems a common fault and I am disappointed that Toyota cannot get a fundamental item like a piece of pipe correct, replacement €200 for a 8mm dia pipe.( I hope their brake pipes are better)

[Thermal]

Leaks in A/C pipes occur because of several main reasons.

1. Inadequate bending during manufacturing

2. Vibrations during operation of the car

3. Corrosion

#1 & #2 are self explanatory and there is little you can do against it.

#3 is almost always due to a lack of maintenance.

The refrigerant R134 is relatively non-toxic and more environment friendly than its predecesors, but it turns into an agressive acid when moisture enters the system.

That's why there is a "dryer" in the A/C system, which needs to be checked/replaced at least every 3 years.

Also, to transport moisture to the dryer, the A/C must be switched on regularly, even when that doesn't seem usefull.

For the same reason, car manufacturers prescribe that brake fluid needs to be replaced at fixed intervals.

You can live with an A/C not working because the pipes have been eaten away from the inside, but not for long when the same occurs with your brake pipes.

The brake system doesn't even contain a dryer...

[Roker]

Leaks in A/C pipes occur because of several main reasons.

1. Inadequate bending during manufacturing

2. Vibrations during operation of the car

3. Corrosion

#1 & #2 are self explanatory and there is little you can do against it.

#3 is almost always due to a lack of maintenance.

The refrigerant R134 is relatively non-toxic and more environment friendly than its predecesors, but it turns into an agressive acid when moisture enters the system.

That's why there is a "dryer" in the A/C system, which needs to be checked/replaced at least every 3 years.

Also, to transport moisture to the dryer, the A/C must be switched on regularly, even when that doesn't seem usefull.

For the same reason, car manufacturers prescribe that brake fluid needs to be replaced at fixed intervals.

You can live with an A/C not working because the pipes have been eaten away from the inside, but not for long when the same occurs with your brake pipes.

The brake system doesn't even contain a dryer...

As previously stated, my car has only 45,000 mile up, there should be no Corrosion,it is not lack of Maintenance. Vibration is a design issue. It is poor quality control.

Also you cannot live without A/C because you cannot drive with out refrigerant,that is why other post are having pump failures, whether the A/C is switch on or off, you will damage the compressor.

How can a sealed system like brakes and refrigeration get moisture in?

[Q.S.]

Leaks in A/C pipes occur because of several main reasons.

1. Inadequate bending during manufacturing

2. Vibrations during operation of the car

3. Corrosion

#1 & #2 are self explanatory and there is little you can do against it.

#3 is almost always due to a lack of maintenance.

The refrigerant R134 is relatively non-toxic and more environment friendly than its predecesors, but it turns into an agressive acid when moisture enters the system.

That's why there is a "dryer" in the A/C system, which needs to be checked/replaced at least every 3 years.

Also, to transport moisture to the dryer, the A/C must be switched on regularly, even when that doesn't seem usefull.

For the same reason, car manufacturers prescribe that brake fluid needs to be replaced at fixed intervals.

You can live with an A/C not working because the pipes have been eaten away from the inside, but not for long when the same occurs with your brake pipes.

The brake system doesn't even contain a dryer...

As previously stated, my car has only 45,000 mile up, there should be no Corrosion,it is not lack of Maintenance. Vibration is a design issue. It is poor quality control.

Also you cannot live without A/C because you cannot drive with out refrigerant,that is why other post are having pump failures, whether the A/C is switch on or off, you will damage the compressor.

How can a sealed system like brakes and refrigeration get moisture in?

Can't drive without refridgerant? load of tosh. If air con is low on refridgerant pressure, the A/C wont run (due to low pressure safety switch) but it doesn't stop you using the car. The only damage that may occur is if the A/C has a major leak and moisture can enter the A/C system. It will not affect the rest of the car and the A/C can be bypassed by the fitting of a shorter belt as in previous posts. There are literally hundreds of cars running on our roads with inoperative A/C due to leaks etc.

[Roker]

Leaks in A/C pipes occur because of several main reasons.

1. Inadequate bending during manufacturing

2. Vibrations during operation of the car

3. Corrosion

#1 & #2 are self explanatory and there is little you can do against it.

#3 is almost always due to a lack of maintenance.

The refrigerant R134 is relatively non-toxic and more environment friendly than its predecesors, but it turns into an agressive acid when moisture enters the system.

That's why there is a "dryer" in the A/C system, which needs to be checked/replaced at least every 3 years.

Also, to transport moisture to the dryer, the A/C must be switched on regularly, even when that doesn't seem usefull.

For the same reason, car manufacturers prescribe that brake fluid needs to be replaced at fixed intervals.

You can live with an A/C not working because the pipes have been eaten away from the inside, but not for long when the same occurs with your brake pipes.

The brake system doesn't even contain a dryer...

As previously stated, my car has only 45,000 mile up, there should be no Corrosion,it is not lack of Maintenance. Vibration is a design issue. It is poor quality control.

Also you cannot live without A/C because you cannot drive with out refrigerant,that is why other post are having pump failures, whether the A/C is switch on or off, you will damage the compressor.

How can a sealed system like brakes and refrigeration get moisture in?

Can't drive without refridgerant? load of tosh. If air con is low on refridgerant pressure, the A/C wont run (due to low pressure safety switch) but it doesn't stop you using the car. The only damage that may occur is if the A/C has a major leak and moisture can enter the A/C system. It will not affect the rest of the car and the A/C can be bypassed by the fitting of a shorter belt as in previous posts. There are literally hundreds of cars running on our roads with inoperative A/C due to leaks etc.

I am merely quoting the workshop Manual. Of course it does not stop the engine, you cause damage by running it. If you put another belt on and bypass the system great.

[closchkutza]

I have noticed a strange thing, related to the aircon compressor: when it is On, when the the engine speed returns to idle, it stops at 1000rpm for a few seconds before dropping to 800 rpm. While it stays at 1000rpm, from the engine compartment can be heard a sound like the hovering of an helicopter that goes away if i accelerate over that value or when engine returns to normal idle rpm. Any idea why this happens? Is it a normal behavior?

[kashbg]

I have had the same problem of violent rattle. I was not sure if it was not the engine. I had just replaced the oil and filter and and went on to move the car. I do not believe in coincidences so I thought it must be smthg relating to the filter or oil. Done it all over again, even put the old filter back. Rattle stil there. If I alter the revs up bit the noice disapears. Took the belt of the AC unit off and the noice gone. I am pretty sure it is the bearings of the AC compressor's pulley.

Toyota sells a bypass belt, not described as such though. I had to ask for same model of Toyota 2004 D4D Estate but without the AC compressor, so I got this part number :9091602509 at the price of £19.50+Vat. I went ahead and bought similar but cheaper belt at the price of £8.50 all Inclusive from Internet. The size was cross referenced to 5pk1113.

I do know now that 5pk1113 is not going to fit even if you use a jack to liver it in past the flange of the pulley.. Not to mention you are not going to be able to take it out past the flange unless you cut it. The correct size may be at least 5pk1130, but still it would be a bit tight. You need to be able to use the tensioner to push the belt away from the AC compressor pulley. So I would say the perfect size would be at least 5pk1145. Maybe the non AC Avensis models have different distance btw the pulleys.

For those who would be trying to locate spare parts the exact model of Compresor is "Nippondenso 5SE12C".

[Roker]

Note; According to the manual the commpressor does not contain a clutch, it is a Variable Vain type and is constantly engaged.

If your refigerant runs low the oil in the refridgerant will not be able to lubricate the commpressor and will cause damage.

[kashbg]

Note; According to the manual the commpressor does not contain a clutch, it is a Variable Vain type and is constantly engaged.

If your refigerant runs low the oil in the refridgerant will not be able to lubricate the commpressor and will cause damage.

Interesting ..! How does the AC compressor gets turned on if there is no clutch or or magnets that play that role. I would be very much interested if you can maybe post the page of the maual that states the no "clutch assembly".

Just to update for those in the same boat of worn out AC compressor. It was confirmed to me that the unit is fully repairable at the fraction of the cost of new unit. Mr T quoted me £871+VAT, excluding labor of taking it down or fitting. Internet are selling brand new units for around £340. Denso the manufacturer is declining to supply spare parts for DIY, to protect those who want ot charge you arm and a leg for smthg so simple (assuming you are a bit technically minded).

Bottom line is, there is always way arond if you are willing to do the job yourself.

I am not sure if the car can run OK while the unit is off for repair (assuming I fit shorter belt). Anybody has an opinion?

[Ninja750]

Just picking up a previous thread really.

Toyota Avensis D4D 156k miles 53 plate.

Air Con compressor rattle at tickover started quite a few months ago and have been running it with this noisy rattle ever since. Rattle only at tickover nothing further up the rev range.

Don't use my air con so yesterday got it fixed by bypassing the air con compressor with a non air con auxillary belt. Also had my other auxillary belt replaced at the same time with total cost £68.00. Result no air con but car is quiet as a mouse again.

Just thought I would let you all know as a new/recon compressor plus re-gas can be an expensive replacement on an older car like mine!

Cheers

[Chasedadream]

I have this issue now with my air con pump

Can someone answer my question

I have a avensis 55 plate t2 2.0 d4d, I have seen some used aircon pumps on eBay will they fit if they come from a 01-03 plate ?

[Tony_T]

I have found the bearing for the NIPPON DENSO 5SE12C A/C pump @ £13.07 available from http://www.mavoyparts.com/BEARING_35x52x12/p823544_3819138.aspx

BEARING 35x52x12 COMPRESSORS : 5SE09C, 5SE12C, 5SL12C-J, 6SEU12C,6SEU14C, 6SEU16C, 7SEU16C, 7SEU17C

Toyota Avensis ,Yaris ,Verso , Mercedes , Audi

Mavoy Parts Clonroosk Abbey

Portlaoise
Co.Laois
Ireland

Telephone: +353831052371 +353578638001

Also have a look at http://www.ahesrl.it/dms/Cataloghi/Ricambi%20per%20compressori.pdf

The home page is http://www.ahesrl.it/cms/ENG/home.html

and they have sites in Italy France and England for lots of Compressor Replacement Parts, the Avensis look to be 47008 for the petrol and 47009 for the diesel.

Hope this save a few people a few bob as the pump is quite expensive to replace

[robinson5599]

Just bought 55 Avensis D4D and found the A/C compressor was by passed with smaller belt, indicating previous problem with the compressor

Removed the Compressor and noticed that the outer disc moves can move backwards and forwards about 5 degrees with the pulley stationary

Undid the small nut at the centre which is attached to the main shaft and unscrewwed the outer disc (sits next to pulley)

Inside was 6 mangled pieces of rubber which I assume started off as shock absorbers, each had a slot which fits into six small rectangular protrusions inside the pulley

I assume these have worn for whatever reason (heat) and this probably is the cause of all the rattling that affects some cars

The bearings appear OK, no movement detected and no oil leaks

The clutch can be heard to operate

I can operate the compressor with a hand drill and it pumps/sucks OK

i can buy the 6 rubber pieces for £35 posted, but is there is an element of risk that I'm missing something and compressor may be goosed

Anybody out there who has come across this damping repair and is it worth doing etc?

[Colspur66]

Hi folks,

I am having similar problems with Avensis T180 56 plate. Does anyone know which compressor I would have and which bearing I would need?

thanks

[coggy77]

I think I have a similar issue but my vane plate has sheared off. I found these parts laying at the bottom of the engine on the sump guard. It looks like I only have 5 of the 6 rubber grommets. The broken bit with the thread on is still on the shaft and I can rotate the shaft freely. Does anybody know if I can replace these parts whilst the compressor is still on the car?

Any help/advice would be much appreciated.

[revpermin]

I had the rattling compressor problem, I was going to get it repaired but the £700 price tag put me off.

I put a smaller drive belt on it & was very pleased with the decrease in fuel consumption, as I thought when the compressor was off it didn't cause much in the way of drag, but about 6mpg was a surprise!

[ttc]

Hey guys. I have a problem with my A/C and I'm suspecting the compressor. (Avensis 2004 d4d estate 1CDFTV)

Please help me and tell me if I'm right or wrong.

The problem appeared yesterday. In the morning it worked, in the afternoon it worked, and in the evening the A/c stopped blowing cold air. i have the car since January, and had no issues with the ventilation or A/C. i noticed some noise from the right side vents, seemed to be something like a dried leaf was caught in the vents, but never considered it an issue.

I took it today to a garage and had the pressure checked. it was over 6 bars, and had enough refrigerant and oil. had them replaced and still didn't work.

They had a tester on the car and the tester said that everything that the compressor needs is there, but the compressor doesn't work. So when you touch the A/C button in the car, it sends the command to the compressor, but the compressor does nothing.

Also, I didn't notice any rattling noises.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!

Regards, Chris

[revpermin]

I don't know a lot about air con but if the pump is ignoring a command then I would suspect the relay/solenoid side of things.

I suppose you've checked the belt?

[ttc]

Thank you for the answer. Yes I checked the belt, it's OK. Also, all the relays and fuses under the bonnet and under the steering wheel are OK. Everything is OK until the command reaches the compressor. I thought that if the compressor is faulty it would of given some signs first, some irregular noises, something...., but I didn't noticed any peculiar behavior.

[revpermin]

Only thing left then is the compressor. take it out & get it looked at, or do what I did & get a smaller belt.

[ttc]

Well, more than a month after my last post, the problem is SOLVED!

After I checked with the first guys I mentioned, I talked with my regular mechanic, and he said it probably wasn't the compressor, since, as I mentioned it didn't give any signs, such as irregular temperatures, suspect noises, irregular workings, something like that. He also suggested that I go and check with the local Mr. T to see what they say.

I forgot to mention that after I last posted, I checked the self diagnoses method (that i also found here). Turning the key in ignition to "ON" while pressing the "AUTO" and "RECIRCULATION" buttons. It showed error 23, which meant:

"pressure sensor circuit":

-A/C tube assy (pressure sensor)

- harness or connector between A/C tube assy (pressure sensor) and A/C amplifier assy

- A/C amplifier assy.

So, with this info, I went to Mr. T and asked for a diagnosis for the A/C system, also mentioning the "error 23" i discovered.

The price for the test was Ok (I could say quite cheap at roughly 15 pounds) and I left the car to be tested. I got the call telling the test was done, and went back from the car.

"We recommend that the A/C compressor be switched, there are no leaks in the system" bla bla, and gave me some prices that scared me for the compressor.

I started to look for the compressor, found one (refundable) in a scrapyard and bought it.

Went to the first guys( I know one of the owners) to empty the refrigerant and oil, than got to my regular guy to replace the compressor. We got the old compressor down, and "gave" it 12 Volts. I could here it "click" and if I turned it manually, it spat refrigerant. My guy said that this compressor is OK. What should we do? We tested the other one, same thing! We put the "new" one up, and went to the other guys, filled the system with the refrigerant and oil, and, surprise:

NOTHING!

Now, this guy remembers! "Wait a minute, Toyota, like all the Japanese, use the positive and negative backwards, when compared to the Europeans, so there's a common positive, and the commands are transmitted by separate negatives". He coupled a few wires, and BOOM, I have cold air in the car! He says, "You were Right, it must be the pressure sensor"!

Now, we take out the refrigerant, go back to the regular guy, switch compressors, get the money back for the old one, and start looking for the pressure sensor. Found one, switch it (after it got lost in the courier's system and a lot of swearing words to be inserted here), fill the system back with refrigerant and oil, and Voila! Now i have A/C again.

Any suggestion to what i should say to the local Mr T? They sent me a text asking if everything was OK and if I'm happy with their services....

[namit]

I have same issues car has 120,000 miles on the clock and when it goes over 4,000 RPM I get noise coming from compressor.

If I turn AC off noise goes away 2 seconds later, turn it back on at 4,000 RPM noise comes back.

Reading this seams there no option but to replace it, have mechanic taking car tomorrow to take a look at it over next few days.

Will update once I know more.