Toyota In Actually Quite Exciting Shocker!

[Norfolk n Chance]

Toyota FT-86, set to debut at the Tokyo motor show later this month.

The FT-86 is labelled a concept, but is expected to reach the road in 2011 alongside a Subaru-badged version.

It's powered by Subaru's 2.0-litre boxer engine, which puts out 146bhp in current production form but should develop slightly more in future iterations.

As we're well aware, the four-pot can be turbocharged to produce monstrous power outputs, but that would also put the price up: Toyota and Subaru are aiming to keep the cost as low as possible to attract younger drivers to the brand. The coupes should weigh in well under £20,000 when they go on sale in the UK.

Top Gear

[Bibbs]

We've olny been looking at this for 3 years now .. C'mon Toyota.

Build it and then put a good engine in it.

[Nerfie]

Thats same design as the HT-HS... so if they stick a little Turbo on that, or add a Hybrid drive taking the power up to 200bhp... It'd be a winner :D

I'm hoping something comes of that Matrix rally concept as well :D

[Norfolk n Chance]

Toyota were planning on resurrecting the Corolla AE86.... so with the concept's name being FT86, are we looking at the new Corolla?? ;)

[Phoenix999]

With looks as good as that it would sell well but I really do think that a turbo version is required to pump up the bhp to about 300 so that it can compete with cars such as the Nissan 370Z. Failure to do such a thing will, in my opinion, be a foolish thing

[SF695]

A Subaru boxer in a Toyota? :(

It's one thing to co-develope with Yamaha, but a Subaru engine?

[Norfolk n Chance]

A Subaru boxer in a Toyota? :(

It's one thing to co-develope with Yamaha, but a Subaru engine?

Why not? Toyota do have a major share holding in Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru's parent company) ;)

[eddieinvader]

My misses said it looks as good as chocolate, so it must be good

As for the engine who gives a **** as long as it goes like ****.

[Leeky]

Mirrors are ghey...

S2000 style nose is ghey...

RWD is good....

146bhp is ghey...

C'mon Toyota.....i'll be following charlie down the BMW route soon at this rate....

Quick google....found these...

Concept my azz, anyone can see that thats nigh on a road going car.

I doubt the seats will carry over or the track map in the centre of the clusters...but otherwise looks like its there!

[SF695]

A Subaru boxer in a Toyota? :(

It's one thing to co-develope with Yamaha, but a Subaru engine?

Why not? Toyota do have a major share holding in Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru's parent company) ;)

I know. And i don't doubt the engine is fine. Just seems wrong to a Toyota entusiast like me.

[Leeky]

Its finally here, some kind of glimpse of the new AE86 spiritual successor. Its even got the numbers 86 in its name. The new Toyota FT-86 Concept will be displayed at the 2009 Tokyo Motorshow and its resemblance to the Toyota FT-HS Concept probably means it’s a more productionised evolution of the FT-HS, or thats just how new Toyota sportscars are going to look like.

Im glad to see that Toyota has stayed true to their promise of a rear wheel drive layout, though this has been made easier by the absorption of Subaru into their group. The platform has a 2,570mm wheelbase, which is shorter than the latest generation Impreza but longer than the previous generations.

The wheelbase is rather compact actually, slightly shorter than that of a latest model Vios. Other dimensions of the FT-86 include a 4,160mm length, a 1,760mm width and a 1,260mm height, and the FT-86 seats four. It has a 2.0 liter boxer engine mated to a 6-speed manual transmission though its not mentioned if this is normally aspirated or force inducted. The concept is fitted with brakes from ADVICS, a JV company formed between AISIN SEIKI, DENSO, Sumitomo Electric and Toyota.

I dont think this is the FT-HS.

I think the FT-86 is going to fill the market where the Celica was. And the FT-HS (Hybrid Supra?) will fill the market where the supra sat, up against the 370Z.

The Lexus LF-A can go head to head with the Nissan GT-R, and win.

[Phoenix999]

....I think the FT-86 is going to fill the market where the Celica was. And the FT-HS (Hybrid Supra?) will fill the market where the supra sat, up against the 370Z.

The Lexus LF-A can go head to head with the Nissan GT-R, and win.

I sincerely hope you are correct but I wish Mr T would get his finger out and produce these cars.... NOW!

[PaulT]

Not sure this is the whole story. When the Toyota/Subaru collaboration was announced, they were talking about a rwd n/a engined version and a turbo 4wd more expensive car.

Does it really make sense to use an engine that is not really renowned except as a turbo unit? Why couldn't Toyota and Yamaha continued to develop the 2zz line, as that has a lot more power? It didn't meet Euro IV emissions four years ago, but they would have had plenty of time to develop something which would.

I think the only reason for using the Scooby engine is to also offer a turbo version.

Paul.

[Leeky]

Not sure this is the whole story. When the Toyota/Subaru collaboration was announced, they were talking about a rwd n/a engined version and a turbo 4wd more expensive car.

Does it really make sense to use an engine that is not really renowned except as a turbo unit? Why couldn't Toyota and Yamaha continued to develop the 2zz line, as that has a lot more power? It didn't meet Euro IV emissions four years ago, but they would have had plenty of time to develop something which would.

I think the only reason for using the Scooby engine is to also offer a turbo version.

Paul.

True. The 2ZZ was a 1.8 with 190bhp....so a 2.0 with 140 is pretty pants.

The Toyota is said to be the RWD version and the Subaru will get 4WD......but i think they'll both get Turbo's.

If Toyota stick an engine in with a mere 140bhp they are making a huge mistake. Perhaps its a typo....perhaps they mean 240bhp nasp?

Quite possible....the S2000 was nigh on 240bhp nasp from a 2.0 back in 1999 when it first came out....

Ten years on....c'mon Toyota if its got to be a 2.0 non turbo.... then we want at least 240bhp ;) If Honda can do it then so can you!

I forget, the last REV4 Altezza Black Top 3SGE was 220bhp and that was a 2.0 nasp!!

[SF695]

I'd rather see a turbocharged engine or even a larger 6 cylinder than something similar to the 2ZZ-GE or anything from Honda. Turbos or superchargers are the only real replacement for displacement. N/A high reving 4 cylinders in cars are Honda's trademark. Let them play that game. Even BMW har started using turbo and most of Audi's lineup har a turbo. Same goes for Saab.

[Karma Supra]

My other half’s manky old MR2 makes more power out of a two litre N/A than that!

"Even BMW started using turbos"

They actually released the first turbo production car in the 70s... They just decided highly fettled N/A engines were better... unfortunately they also cost a LOT more to develop to get decent N/A output and still pass emissions laws which is why they have reverted to forced induction. The "easy" route to power. It is a crying shame that future M cars are probably all going to be turbo :(

I guess it depends if it is trying to be a serious driver's car or not. Notice that although Porsche have a more powerful turbo engine in their 997 turbo, when they wanted to make a properly quick track day "Ultimate driver's" version, the GT3 and GT3 clubsport, they developed a high output N/A, - which is apparently an absolute gem!

Is the 3UZ still going? Nice light V8.

[Norfolk n Chance]

I'd rather see a turbocharged engine or even a larger 6 cylinder than something similar to the 2ZZ-GE or anything from Honda. Turbos or superchargers are the only real replacement for displacement. N/A high reving 4 cylinders in cars are Honda's trademark. Let them play that game.

You should re-think that statement....

The 2ZZ-GE was the first N/A engine to produce 100bhp/litre.... something Honda couldn't manage...

The 2ZZ has, in it's currrent form, been supercharged, turbo charged and twin charged...

The potential for the engine is huge... Lotus use it in their Exige in a 240bhp supercharged form...

The Blitz supercharger will push the 2ZZ to 300bhp...

It wouldn't take Toyota that much at all to make a few tweaks and have a hugely powerful N/A engine fit for a new sports car...

[Karma Supra]

The 2ZZ-GE was the first N/A engine to produce 100bhp/litre.... something Honda couldn't manage...

What year did the 2ZZ-GE enter production?

[SF695]

Personally i can't see the point in bhp/litre beyond a certain point. Why not talk about bhp/rpm? Or bhp/litre*rpm?

[SF695]

BTW, both the 4a-ge and the 3s-ge put out more than 100 bhp/litre in some versions.

[Karma Supra]

BHP/litre doesn't really mean anything unless you a racing in a class capped by engine size, or a honda driver with a chip on your shoulder.

My car only makes 107 bhp/litre. The dodge viper only makes 61.4 bhp/litre. Guess which is quicker in a straight line?

The later 3S-GE Beams Black top is a cracking little engine. I actually deply want a late SW-20 MR2, hard top no moon roof "low spec" with a blacktop Beams 3S-GE on throttle bodies.

Instant throttle response and wide power band drivability over turbo peakyness any day - Especially ina short wheel base mid engined car as "thottle dependant" as an MR2.

[SF695]

BHP/litre doesn't really mean anything unless you a racing in a class capped by engine size, or a honda driver with a chip on your shoulder.

My car only makes 107 bhp/litre. The dodge viper only makes 61.4 bhp/litre. Guess which is quicker in a straight line?

The later 3S-GE Beams Black top is a cracking little engine. I actually deply want a late SW-20 MR2, hard top no moon roof "low spec" with a blacktop Beams 3S-GE on throttle bodies.

Instant throttle response and wide power band drivability over turbo peakyness any day - Especially ina short wheel base mid engined car as "thottle dependant" as an MR2.

In a modern twin turbo engine, you can have a fairly wide powerband with a fairly flat torque curve.

[Karma Supra]

Correct. With emphasis on the two "fairlys"

What is missing is the virtually instant throttle response of having a short intake.

When they were designing the Mclaren F1, and looking for the ultimate engine, any forced induction engine was immediately discredited.

Ferrari Enzo, Ferrari FFX, Maserati MC-12, any Lambo, Porsche Carrera GT. All N/A. See my above example of the GT3.

Sure the big power cars like the Veyron and McMerc are forced induction, but they are more intercontinental balistic missiles for oil barrons and footballers, not track day tearers.

Anyway, off topic... Toyota have anounced the first mildy interesting car in years. Yes it is Too late and too many have moved on from the brand, but we should all praise them for this step in the right direction.

-And slate BMW for this

Not just the M Badge but the hallowed "M1". 3 Cylinder Diesel and Hybrid?

[Norfolk n Chance]

Looks like this may be released as the new Corolla.... Toyota were rumoured to be bringing the Corolla name back...

Top Gear

[Leeky]

[The 2ZZ-GE was the first N/A engine to produce 100bhp/litre.... something Honda couldn't manage...

Where did you hear that?

Thats not true..

The Honda S2000 made 237bhp from 2 litres before the Celica Gen7 came out with the 2ZZ-GE making 189bhp from its 1.8.

And also the Gen 6 Celica SS3 had the 200bhp VVTI version of the 2 litre 3S-GE. so earlier signs of 100bhp per litre.

Actually... lets go further back!!

The Honda Civic VTI. Has the 1.6 Honda B16 engine with 160bhp. This engine came out in 1988!! 100bhp per litre 11 years before the 2zz-ge.

Going back to the FT-86 for a moment.... its grown on me quick. I will consider replacing my supra with one of these when they come out :)