Toyota Rav4 Vvti Engine 2004

[kevinvic]

Hi everyone, I am new to all of this and not mechanically minded so please go easy!!

Let me first explain my dilema.

I am a soldier living in Cyprus and I own a 2004 2.0 litre VVTI Rav4. The car was bought in Cyprus but it is GB car. I have ran the car for 4 years perfectly the only thing wrong was a change of Battery. The car has full service history all done by Toyota however at this point in time the car is completely knackered, the engine just seized. I was driving along the motorway when the engine just stopped, no warning whatsoever. I had the car towed to the Toyota garage who charged me €400 to take out the engine and inspect it then I got a call to say it would cost €4500 to fix!!!

I was completely taken aback. First I was told that it needed a new conrod, 1 piston and 3 valves. The following day it was 1 camshaft, 1 piston and 3 valves, then 1 camshaft, 1 piston and 4 valves. I have since discovered on the quiet from a guy who does the work for Toyota that in fact it needs 1 crankshaft, 1 camshaft, 4 pistons, 1 conrod and 4 valves!!

Toyota said that they could not understand how it happened but I have been informed that the engine had no oil whatsoever. My car has never lost any oil. I cannot let on to Toyota that I know why the engine seized or the man who told me would get no more work from them.

I spoke to the head mechanic at Toyota GB who informed me that he knew straight away what had happened and had we been in the Uk they would have replaced the engine. He informed me of the 7 year warranty although the engines he had done were 1.6 and 1.8 and our 2.0 litre was the first he had come across.

Unfortunately as we are in Cyprus he can do nothing for us. I have found a technical service bulletin issued by Toyota 04.06 2007 but it just says 2AZ-FE-Engine block. KB which means nothing to me.

How can I prove that the sudden loss of engine oil was a result of a defective engine. Would Toyota Cyprus have been issued the same info about defective engines? Obviously the info applied to the 1.6 and 1.8 and as mine is 2.0 where do I stand? I have thought about getting an email from the mechanic at Toyota GB to prove my point.

Does anyone have concrete eveidence about the defective engine as I have read that Toyota did not issue a recall but quietly extended the warranties.

I am losing sleep over this now as I am seriosly p****d off! Toyota Cyprus just keeep asking who serviced the car and when I tell them it was them they keep asking did I keep the receipts. Obviously they are hiding something and I need to get to the bottom of it. I refuse to pay €4500 through no fault of my own.

I appreciate all rsponses and thanks for taking the time to read this lengthy first post!!!!

Thanks

Kev

[IanXT4]

Hi Kev

Welcome to the forum and sorry to hear about your problem.

I drive a UK 2004 XT4 petrol which has a 1AZ-FE engine, which I think is the same one fitted to your car. (if its a UK model)

As far as I am aware the 2 litre 1AZ-FE has never suffered from any excessive oil consumption problems, this I believe only affected a batch of engines (1.4 1.6 1.8 litre) in other Toyotas such as the Avensis.

My engine after 45K miles is so oil tight that I still have the litre of oil I bought to top up between services.

Did you have any signs of an oil leak before this happened, oil on your drive etc.

Good luck

Ian

[kevinvic]

Hi Kev

Welcome to the forum and sorry to hear about your problem.

I drive a UK 2004 XT4 petrol which has a 1AZ-FE engine, which I think is the same one fitted to your car. (if its a UK model)

As far as I am aware the 2 litre 1AZ-FE has never suffered from any excessive oil consumption problems, this I believe only affected a batch of engines (1.4 1.6 1.8 litre) in other Toyotas such as the Avensis.

My engine after 45K miles is so oil tight that I still have the litre of oil I bought to top up between services.

Did you have any signs of an oil leak before this happened, oil on your drive etc.

Good luck

Ian

[kevinvic]

Hi Ian

No signs of an oil leak anywhere. Everytime I tested the oil it had never moved on the dip stick. We had no oil warning light, nothing, the engine just went. I do not know if it is relevant but on the last service the garage used 15 30 oil? I have been told that my engine should be using 50 30?

For a car with full service it is totally unacceptable to lose an engine at 4 years old which is why I cannot rest.

Thanks

Kev

[Big Kev]

Hi Ian

No signs of an oil leak anywhere. Everytime I tested the oil it had never moved on the dip stick. We had no oil warning light, nothing, the engine just went. I do not know if it is relevant but on the last service the garage used 15 30 oil? I have been told that my engine should be using 50 30?

For a car with full service it is totally unacceptable to lose an engine at 4 years old which is why I cannot rest.

Thanks

Kev

Hi Kev,

Excuse capitals hereafter....not directed at you.......

HEY....TOYOTA GB OR WHEREVER....AYE YOU.....THIS GUY DOING A JOB YOU WOULDNAE DO.

FIX HIS CAR BOTH AS A GESTURE OF GOOD WILL, AND A THANK YOU FOR DOING WHAT HE DOES FOR YOU AND ME.

Good luck Kev.......more than me backing you to the hilt on this.

Regards,

Big Kev

[IanXT4]

Hi

This situation sounds strange, the oil has to have gone somewhere.

Its possible that a switch to different oil could have increased your oil consumption prior to this happening. I know that I do not check our Rav oil level as much as our Golf because it never moves and therefore you become complacent. If you then change your oil grade you could get caught out.

I currently use GTX Magnatec 10W40 as its what my Toyota Garage always use, I know Castrol currently recommend 5w30 for my car (in the UK) as its thinner at cold temps and saves fuel. From what I have read it also clings/lubricates so well can up the oil consumption.

I am not sure what the best oil would be for a RAV in your climate ?

How often did you used to check the oil, daily weekly etc, Toyota are very good at covering their backsides with ridiculous comments in the manual like "Max oil consumption 1 litre per 1000 km"

My comment to this manual entry would be "If I wanted a two stroke I would have bought one !! "

Personally, I would work hard with the garage to see if there is some way to get a goodwill payment out of Toyota.

Good luck

[anchorman]

Its an awkward one and there was problems with excessive oil consumption on very early VVTi's but not on 2004 models.

Maybe it broke a ring and you never noticed the oil consumption increase but it sounds like the devastation is down to oil starvation. This is where it is awkward because you will have trouble in proving the consumption has changed rather than you never checked the oil because you didn't expect it.

In either case I don't believe that the "short engine" warranty applies to your vehicle so the only thing you can do is request a "policy warranty claim" via the dealer. It realy needs to be done by the dealer that has serviced it but if that is not the same one who has it in bits you can ask them; Given that the car is dealer serviced would they write to Toyota on your behalf and request such a claim. I think at best you can only expect some sort of contribution given that such failure "is not reasonable" and see what they say. If they won't write, you will have to do it.

It isn't going to be easy forcing a claim on a 5 year old car but best of luck.

[igormus]

Hi everyone, I am new to all of this and not mechanically minded so please go easy!!

Let me first explain my dilema.

I am a soldier living in Cyprus and I own a 2004 2.0 litre VVTI Rav4. The car was bought in Cyprus but it is GB car. I have ran the car for 4 years perfectly the only thing wrong was a change of battery. The car has full service history all done by Toyota however at this point in time the car is completely knackered, the engine just seized. I was driving along the motorway when the engine just stopped, no warning whatsoever. I had the car towed to the Toyota garage who charged me €400 to take out the engine and inspect it then I got a call to say it would cost €4500 to fix!!!

I was completely taken aback. First I was told that it needed a new conrod, 1 piston and 3 valves. The following day it was 1 camshaft, 1 piston and 3 valves, then 1 camshaft, 1 piston and 4 valves. I have since discovered on the quiet from a guy who does the work for Toyota that in fact it needs 1 crankshaft, 1 camshaft, 4 pistons, 1 conrod and 4 valves!!

Toyota said that they could not understand how it happened but I have been informed that the engine had no oil whatsoever. My car has never lost any oil. I cannot let on to Toyota that I know why the engine seized or the man who told me would get no more work from them.

I spoke to the head mechanic at Toyota GB who informed me that he knew straight away what had happened and had we been in the Uk they would have replaced the engine. He informed me of the 7 year warranty although the engines he had done were 1.6 and 1.8 and our 2.0 litre was the first he had come across.

Unfortunately as we are in Cyprus he can do nothing for us. I have found a technical service bulletin issued by Toyota 04.06 2007 but it just says 2AZ-FE-Engine block. KB which means nothing to me.

How can I prove that the sudden loss of engine oil was a result of a defective engine. Would Toyota Cyprus have been issued the same info about defective engines? Obviously the info applied to the 1.6 and 1.8 and as mine is 2.0 where do I stand? I have thought about getting an email from the mechanic at Toyota GB to prove my point.

Does anyone have concrete eveidence about the defective engine as I have read that Toyota did not issue a recall but quietly extended the warranties.

I am losing sleep over this now as I am seriosly p****d off! Toyota Cyprus just keeep asking who serviced the car and when I tell them it was them they keep asking did I keep the receipts. Obviously they are hiding something and I need to get to the bottom of it. I refuse to pay €4500 through no fault of my own.

I appreciate all rsponses and thanks for taking the time to read this lengthy first post!!!!

Thanks

Kev

hello KEV

It is really sad story and i am sorry to hear it from you.

you own the same model as me and 2.0 ltr (vvt-i) has never been claimed as to the oil consumption issue.

as to me - i used to checl oil level each 7 days and follow this schedule but the llevel is the same (!). I do not conside you had a leaks during one/two days because you did not state it and i do not belive they were. Each piston is cooled by the oil jet being taken of the oil main and it is impossible to overheat them.

The problem might be another connected with oil pump drive or abnormal oil has been filled in during your last service. IIn this case all the receipts confirming last service are highly required for proving them. I know it very well and Toyota will be more polite having understood all the records are kept on your files. Normally toyota service issues two the same receipts copies. I have just talked with one mechanic of mine and he has again confirmed to me that no oil consumption issues have been recorded in 2.0 ltr RAVs yet. The oil ca not be lost subject to no leaks -- may be they play with you? You ca nonly foght with then having found these papers.

Good Luck/Igor

[kevinvic]

If, as is being said, no oil was in the engine, why didn't the oil pressure light come on? I am speaking to another mechanic later today so I will find out more info.

[igormus]

If, as is being said, no oil was in the engine, why didn't the oil pressure light come on? I am speaking to another mechanic later today so I will find out more info.

hello

the light sensor could be faulty or close to + el contacts etc etc.

the opinion from yr mechanic would be interrested to hear

cheers

[anchorman]

If, as is being said, no oil was in the engine, why didn't the oil pressure light come on? I am speaking to another mechanic later today so I will find out more info.

Kev

The oil light comes on at about 7psi and is only really there to tell you that the pressure has risen from zero when the engine has started. TBH, if the oil light comes on while you are driving, the chances are the engine is wrecked before you can do anything about it.

You were just very unlucky.

[jedi134]

Anchorman are you saying that by the time the oil light comes on, there will be terminal damage to the engine if driving the car. at what stage/stages does the oil light come on, and what does it actually measure? Does it measure how much oil is in the sump, and if it drops does it warn you like most cars do? or does it just tell you when oil presure has been lost.

It would be interesting to know how the oil light works.

[anchorman]

Anchorman are you saying that by the time the oil light comes on, there will be terminal damage to the engine if driving the car. at what stage/stages does the oil light come on, and what does it actually measure? Does it measure how much oil is in the sump, and if it drops does it warn you like most cars do? or does it just tell you when oil presure has been lost.

It would be interesting to know how the oil light works.

On a 4.2 the oil pressure switch sits in the end of the oil gallery from the oil pump so shares common pressure with the crankshaft, little ends and camshaft - all of which require enough pressure to maintain full film lubrication. Full film lubrication means that all of these components use plain bearings. In other words just a film of oil under pressure keeps the rotating parts apart. In a modern engine the tolerances are very fine and the moving parts must not contact for the briefest moment as metal to metal contact will cause extremely rapid wear or even welding of the surfaces.

We often talk about how "thick" the oil should be and it is difficult for some to understand that thin oil is best in a modern engine. The point is that it doesn't matter if the oil is thin because when it is pumped into a very fine gap it is just as non compressable as thick oil but you can get it there faster! When you force the oil into these fine gaps, the pressure will be determined by how quickly it ouses out and falls freely back into the sump for recirculation. The pressure in the gallery when the engine is at 3000rpm should be 30 to 80psi (typical) but the oil pressure switch tells you that the pressure has risen above 4-7psi = enough to put the light out at idle when the engine is hot. So now work that backwards! If the engine is running at 3000rpm under load and the light comes on it means the pressure has dropped below 4-7psi and metal to metal contact is inevitable. Now you are in trouble because the plain bearings are very soft and the friction will melt them onto the crankshaft in seconds (don't forget that 3000rpm is 50 revolutions per second!) and all those pistons, con rods and crankshafts are flailing about under load - quite amazing really!.

4.3s have a low oil level light as well as a low pressure light. The two perform seperate functions and should not be confused. If the oil level falls in a 4.2 (I can't remember for sure whether or not they have a level light but I don't think so) there will come a time when all of the oil is drawn from the sump and the pump sucks air. At that moment the pressure will fall to zero and the light will come on. When the level is low, this occurs iniotially when the car goes around corners and centrifuge causes the oil to surge away from the oil pump pick-up or the vehicle goes up or down a steep hill. In that case you may see the light flash and whether metal to metal contact occurs depends on what you are asking the engine to do at the time. If you are coasting and the engine can maintain that film with residual pressure you might get away with it but if you are bowling along the motorway like Kev was the chances of getting away with it are slim - even for seconds. The bottom line is when you 5 people onboard with all their luggage and you are flying up a steep hill with maybe a caravan on the back, only a thin film of oil is keeping all the main components of the engine apart when they are under incredible load.

If there is one piece of advice that is worth remembering, it is use good quality low viscosity oil (5W/30 semi synthetic is fine) and don't let it fall below the minimum on the stick. Some engines use more than others and providing there are no leaks the oil is either getting past the piston rings or the valve guides and being burned. When a car is acquired by the owner, the oil should be checked weekly. New engines often use a lot and as the piston rings bed in they settle and use less. however, regular checking will allow you to assess how this process is progressing and it might then allow you to increase the checks to monthly or more. In Kev's case, if we assume he was confident that there was very little consumption then we have to consider what changed. If a ring broke which allowed more oil to be burned then to some extent it is down to experience as to whether or not it gets noticed but rarely does a fault occur that doesn't give some symptoms. In the case of rings it might have produced a different noise (clicking or more "thrashy") but almost certainly more blue/grey smoke. But you don't always get a warning and if for instance the oil pump failed and there was a full sump of oil it would cause almost guaranteed destruction.

Finally I should stress that when an engine fails things happen very quickly because of the speed and load. For that reason it is a very bold statement for the Toyota garage to conclude there was no oil in the sump at the time of failure UNLESS they have fully stripped the engine. This is because when a total pressure loss occurs at speed and things start to melt and weld, it is quite possible to empoty a full sump in the time it takes for the car to come to a grinding halt (with no pressure this would certainly be measured in seconds) as large volumes of oil get forced into all sorts of places it was never intended to be. Sometimes it is impossible to tell what happened as it is just one big melted mess that is siezed solid.

If you are driving and you see the oil light flash you should immediately put your foot on the clutch and coast to the side of the road. Do not stop the engine in panic as you will lose the steering and quickly lose the brakes and may even lock the steering. Once in a safe place and only then you should immediately stop the engine and investigate. If the oil level is Ok you are dealing with zero pressure or a duff oil pressure switch but don't risk running it with the light on as it could spell certain doom! Obviously, if you are in the fast lane you need to get back to the hard shoulder and if you ask me what I would do then if there was nothing about I would coast to the shoulder with my foot on the clutch but if it was busy I would do what was necessary including sacrificing the engine (you can buy a new one of those!). As I said, 4.3s make life a bit easier because they will buzz at you if the oil gets low and if there is a total loss of pressure they will also buzz and in both cases tell you what the cause is on the display so the chances of saving it are somewhat higher.

The 4.2s depend on you spotting that light and luck.

[anchorman]

Anchorman are you saying that by the time the oil light comes on, there will be terminal damage to the engine if driving the car. at what stage/stages does the oil light come on, and what does it actually measure? Does it measure how much oil is in the sump, and if it drops does it warn you like most cars do? or does it just tell you when oil presure has been lost.

It would be interesting to know how the oil light works.

On a 4.2 the oil pressure switch sits in the end of the oil gallery from the oil pump so shares common pressure with the crankshaft, little ends and camshaft - all of which require enough pressure to maintain full film lubrication. Full film lubrication means that all of these components use plain bearings. In other words just a film of oil under pressure keeps the rotating parts apart. In a modern engine the tolerances are very fine and the moving parts must not contact for the briefest moment as metal to metal contact will cause extremely rapid wear or even welding of the surfaces.

We often talk about how "thick" the oil should be and it is difficult for some to understand that thin oil is best in a modern engine. The point is that it doesn't matter if the oil is thin because when it is pumped into a very fine gap it is just as non compressable as thick oil but you can get it there faster! When you force the oil into these fine gaps, the pressure will be determined by how quickly it ouses out and falls freely back into the sump for recirculation. The pressure in the gallery when the engine is at 3000rpm should be 30 to 80psi (typical) but the oil pressure switch tells you that the pressure has risen above 4-7psi = enough to put the light out at idle when the engine is hot. So now work that backwards! If the engine is running at 3000rpm under load and the light comes on it means the pressure has dropped below 4-7psi and metal to metal contact is inevitable. Now you are in trouble because the plain bearings are very soft and the friction will melt them onto the crankshaft in seconds (don't forget that 3000rpm is 50 revolutions per second!) and all those pistons, con rods and crankshafts are flailing about under load - quite amazing really!.

4.3s have a low oil level light as well as a low pressure light. The two perform seperate functions and should not be confused. If the oil level falls in a 4.2 (I can't remember for sure whether or not they have a level light but I don't think so) there will come a time when all of the oil is drawn from the sump and the pump sucks air. At that moment the pressure will fall to zero and the light will come on. When the level is low, this occurs initially when the car goes around corners and centrifuge causes the oil to surge away from the oil pump pick-up or the vehicle goes up or down a steep hill. In that case you may see the light flash and whether metal to metal contact occurs depends on what you are asking the engine to do at the time. If you are coasting and the engine can maintain that film with residual pressure you might get away with it but if you are bowling along the motorway like Kev was the chances of getting away with it are slim - even for seconds. The bottom line is when you have 5 people onboard with all their luggage and you are flying up a steep hill with maybe a caravan on the back, only a thin film of oil is keeping all the main components of the engine apart when they are under incredible load.

If there is one piece of advice that is worth remembering, it is use good quality low viscosity oil (5W/30 semi synthetic is fine) and don't let it fall below the minimum on the stick. Some engines use more than others and providing there are no leaks the oil is either getting past the piston rings or the valve guides and being burned. When a car is acquired by the owner, the oil should be checked weekly. New engines often use a lot and as the piston rings bed in they settle and use less. however, regular checking will allow you to assess how this process is progressing and it might then allow you to decrease the checks to monthly or more. In Kev's case, if we assume he was confident that there was very little consumption then we have to consider what changed. If a ring broke which allowed more oil to be burned then to some extent it is down to experience as to whether or not it gets noticed but rarely does a fault occur that doesn't give some symptoms. In the case of rings it might have produced a different noise (clicking or more "thrashy") but almost certainly more blue/grey smoke. But you don't always get a warning and if for instance the oil pump failed and even if there was a full sump of oil it would cause almost guaranteed destruction.

I should stress that when an engine fails things happen very quickly because of the speed and load. For that reason it is a very bold statement for the Toyota garage to conclude there was no oil in the sump at the time of failure UNLESS they have fully stripped the engine. This is because when a total pressure loss occurs at speed and things start to melt and weld, it is quite possible to empty a full sump in the time it takes for the car to come to a grinding halt (with no pressure this would certainly be measured in seconds) as large volumes of oil get forced into and out of all sorts of places it was never intended to be. Sometimes it is impossible to tell what happened as it is just one big melted mess that is siezed solid.

If you are driving and you see the oil light flash you should immediately put your foot on the clutch and coast to the side of the road. Do not stop the engine in panic as you will lose the steering and quickly lose the brakes and may even lock the steering. Once in a safe place and only then you should immediately stop the engine and investigate. If the oil level is Ok you are dealing with zero pressure or a duff oil pressure switch but don't risk running it with the light on as it could spell certain doom! Obviously, if you are in the fast lane when it happens you need to get back to the hard shoulder and if you ask me what I would do then if there was nothing about I would coast to the shoulder with my foot on the clutch but if it was busy I would do what was necessary including sacrificing the engine (you can buy a new one of those!). As I said, 4.3s make life a bit easier because they will buzz at you if the oil gets low and if there is a total loss of pressure they will also buzz and in both cases tell you what the cause is on the display so the chances of saving it are somewhat higher.

The 4.2s depend on you spotting that light and luck.

[jedi134]

Thats scary stuff there Anchorman, but a very good explanation, thanks. Is there any way of fitting an aftermarket oil level sensor to the D4D engine? Since reading this post I am a tad paranoid about my engine oil now so much so I went out and checked it, seems ok.

Do you have any PDF`s on the oil circuit and electrical warning system?

Just found this in the owners manual too, so feel a bit better now, but why did Kev not get this low oil/pressure warning? The manual states i should have both level and pressure warnings? am i reading this correctly.

A Har! but it does say in brackets (Diesel engines) So i`m presuming this low oil level warning is not available on the petrol VVTi engine`s? why? what was the problem with the 1.4 and 1.6 engines failing? I presume these were Petrol VVTi`s too.

I`m answering my own questions here, now that is scary stuff.

[anchorman]

Got to go to work now but will reply either late tonight or tomorrow.

Cheers

[kevinvic]

Thanks to all who have replied.

I met with the mechanic yesterday who does the engine work for Toyota. He has gt down to the nitty gritty and explained exactly what happened.

Apparently the chamber for one of the connecting rods was empty, no oil. He said there must have been a blockage therefore the engine bust!!!

As I said, I am not mechanically minded but I stated that this was totally unacceptable for the year of my car. He was in full agreement and advised me to approach the head of Toyota in Cyprus. As it stands the Toyota service centre say that they have no idea what happened and will never know because the engine is so badly damaged. This is very reassuring, NOT!!! Why are they lying to me when they know what caused it?

Maybe someone out there can explain what happens when the chamber has no oil so that i can be well prepared for my meeting with Mr Toyota. The mechanic says that maybe I will be offered a big discount on the spare parts!!!!

What could have caused a blockage resulting in a totally f****d up engine. Crankshaft cannot be saved so its crankshaft, 4 pistons, 4 valves, 1 conrod and the rest!!

It's really peeing me off when i see Rav4s on the road 5 years older than mine running quite happily!!!!

[igormus]

Thanks to all who have replied.

I met with the mechanic yesterday who does the engine work for Toyota. He has gt down to the nitty gritty and explained exactly what happened.

Apparently the chamber for one of the connecting rods was empty, no oil. He said there must have been a blockage therefore the engine bust!!!

As I said, I am not mechanically minded but I stated that this was totally unacceptable for the year of my car. He was in full agreement and advised me to approach the head of Toyota in Cyprus. As it stands the Toyota service centre say that they have no idea what happened and will never know because the engine is so badly damaged. This is very reassuring, NOT!!! Why are they lying to me when they know what caused it?

Maybe someone out there can explain what happens when the chamber has no oil so that i can be well prepared for my meeting with Mr Toyota. The mechanic says that maybe I will be offered a big discount on the spare parts!!!!

What could have caused a blockage resulting in a totally f****d up engine. Crankshaft cannot be saved so its crankshaft, 4 pistons, 4 valves, 1 conrod and the rest!!

It's really peeing me off when i see Rav4s on the road 5 years older than mine running quite happily!!!!

Kevin hi

i disagree with mechacnic in charge -- he has simply lied with you having understood you can not contradict.

i only see two problems --- oil pump failure and oil pressure sensor failure.

FYG- oil pump delivers oil to the crankshaft bearings first, then to camshafts; vvt-i system and back to the sump. Besides -- four cooling oil jet tubes are mounted on the oil main to have an oil directed to each pistons skirts for cooling + lubricating of piston pins (!) --- now read again what has mechanic say (!) even a central hole of each con rod is blocked --- it would no problem at all thanks to the oil cooling jets both cools and lubricates piston/piston pins preventing them to be melted down. By the way ---- whether any additional side damages of cyl block or sump are available? What could happen -- once both pump and sensor gave a fault -- it is understood you could not take over on your engine especially when you are focused on road drive ---- the result -- no oil in thhe system + engine seizure + destroying of engiine side/s resulting big oil leaks (4.5 ltr in the sump) sufficient to lose an oil within seconds. It is understood once you stopped the car you could no see any leaks because the sump is empty. I only see these two fault.

Any other opinions guys?

CHeers/Igor

[jedi134]

Seems like a quitely kept common fault on some VVTi engines, found this quote on the Honest John website

"1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 litre VVT-i engines can start to use up to a litre of oil every 600 miles after 40,000 miles due to a bore liner problem. If under 5 years old and Toyota maintained, Toyota will usually replace FOC.

"

Maybe this was your problem Kev?

[anchorman]

I dont think so Jedi.

The early engines were guilty but not 2004. There is a bit of a terminology issue as I don't know what they mean by a chamber but usually if a con rod is starved it is because the little end bearing has turned and blocked the oil feed hole. I think you should just progress your request for a policy warranty contribution as it would be reasonable to not expect such a catastrophic failure on a regularly serviced engine of that age.

Jedi. Do you want info on the oil circuit just out of interest or for a more specific reason? With regard to oil level warning the good old dipstick takes some beating.

[jedi134]

Just wanted them out of interest really Anchorman, just to see how it all works, yes the dipstick is a great indicator, but not easily accessable when doing 70mph on the motorway if the oil should suddenly want to do a disapearing act.

also found this:

"Early 1.8 and 2.0 litre VVT-i engines can start to use up to a litre of oil every 600 miles after 40,000 miles due to a bore liner problem and/or being fitted with slightly undersize pistons. By February 2009 Toyota had extended the warranty on these engines to 6 years or 100,000 miles.

"

I`m sure ive read this is also happening on newer VVTi engines somewhere, maybe the Yaris forum, hi oil consumption gradualy getting worse, due to bore lining, but could be mistaken.

I`ve found that dealerships will deny every thing untill you put hard evidence in front of them. Basicaly you have to find the fault/cause yourself, and then tell them how to fix it.

[anchorman]

Just wanted them out of interest really Anchorman, just to see how it all works, yes the dipstick is a great indicator, but not easily accessable when doing 70mph on the motorway if the oil should suddenly want to do a disapearing act.

also found this:

"Early 1.8 and 2.0 litre VVT-i engines can start to use up to a litre of oil every 600 miles after 40,000 miles due to a bore liner problem and/or being fitted with slightly undersize pistons. By February 2009 Toyota had extended the warranty on these engines to 6 years or 100,000 miles.

"

I`m sure ive read this is also happening on newer VVTi engines somewhere, maybe the Yaris forum, hi oil consumption gradualy getting worse, due to bore lining, but could be mistaken.

I`ve found that dealerships will deny every thing untill you put hard evidence in front of them. Basicaly you have to find the fault/cause yourself, and then tell them how to fix it.

OK well here is a brief description of the VVTi lube circuit and I'm sure you can Google more but let me reassure you that oil pump failure is extremely rare and if you do get it, the same goes for any engine - you can more or less kiss it goodbye if you are doing 70mph!

lube.pdf

VVTi's did suffer but I'm fairly sure it doesn't apply to you and the extended warranty refers back to those old (around 2000) engines. You would know because like my mate with a 2000 Corolla, you would be putting a litre of oil a month in. It is an excessive consumption issue not a sudden loss of pressure (unless the sump is allowed to empty) issue.

The real solution is an oil pressure gauge if you really can't sleep but it's made it to 4 years old so I would relax if I were you

[jedi134]

Thanks for the PDF Anchorman, I see the oil pump is chain driven on this engine, can these chains break?

Could I be so cheeky as to as for a D4D version, or will it be similar?

Maybe the VVTi`s i was thinking about were the new model engines 4.3`s etc which also have high oil comsumption, due to piston problems yet again.

[anchorman]

Thanks for the PDF Anchorman, I see the oil pump is chain driven on this engine, can these chains break?

Could I be so cheeky as to as for a D4D version, or will it be similar?

Maybe the VVTi`s i was thinking about were the new model engines 4.3`s etc which also have high oil comsumption, due to piston problems yet again.

I don't like showing you this or you won't sleep tonight again

It's belt driven but as long as everything is serviced it will be trouble free.

It is the later D4Ds like mine that suffer oil consumption problems up until 2007-ish when they modded the pistons and rings. The VVTi's are pretty well bomb proof now. Mine has settled but uses about 1 litre per 5000 miles. I know about it and I just watch it - especially before a long trip. I tend to change it when it needs topping up as I change mine at 5k anyway.

lube_D4D.pdf

BTW. The best thing to break a VVTi timing belt is to ignore changing the oil. However, if the oil is changed regularly the chain will do phenominal mileages (500-750k) and that is another reason I do mine often. The inside of my engine will be very clean.

[kevinvic]

Anchorman

Do you fancy a holiday in Cyprus to sort out these idiots as you know more about my engine than they do!!!!

I am going to print off your response and use it as ammunition as i need to get my head around the problem before I go shouting my mouth off.

here is some info i found on the internet about oil blockages

Pistons are attached to con rods and con rods are attached to the engine crank via a bearing call the 'big end bearing'. These bearings are fed with oil from small oil ways which can become blocked if regular oil changes have been neglected. If the bearing is starved of oil it will fail and if this is the cause of your engine stopping you will almost certainly need the crankshaft removing to be reground as well as replacing shells, gaskets and bearings. It can be done with the engine in situ but has to dismantled from the underside so best left to those in the know with a pit, lift or ramp.

It's caused by mixing long life and normal oil between changes with out doing a full flush.

Or even using the wrong type of oil all together.

topping up with a crappy mineral oil will most likely aggrevate the problem.

On my last service my car was filled with mineral oil. Is this relevant?