Advice On Mods For 4age 20v

[Dark Magician]

Hey guys,

im looking at re doing my motor which is going to be done within the next few months, looking at changing rings, bearings and pistons all orignal, but as far as mods go im looking at lightened fly wheel, gas flowed head, TRD head gasket, swirled valves, aftermarket exhaust cam gear as well as exhaust cam 272 deg with 8.5 lift as I still want to use the std ecu, and for fueling a good aftermarket FPR.

What power should I expect to gain at the wheels here,

Any advice welcome...

Thanks B)

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Hi mate,

Sounds like you want quite a bit done with your motor!

I can't personally give you and estimate of power because I have the 16v, but you should quite easily be on or above 200bhp with all that and a good re-map!

Some helpful things would be to smooth your inlet ports slightly to give better air-flow which has varying bhp increases on different engines. Ensure that you don't smooth them off too much because you do need some turbulence.

I take it that you're getting a 0.8mm gasket to raise the C.R.? If you are going N/A, get one because it should do you some good! :)

As I remember, the cylinder sleeves and combustion chambers have sharp edges on them because Toyota didn't build the 20 valves with as much care as they did other engines. These edges can cause detonation so use some wet and dry paper to smooth them off, without going nuts of course. ;) Maybe you can get an idea of what they could be like on yours from a pic of mine;

Here are some sites that may help you;

UltraRev.com

Europerformance.co.uk

Fensport

BillZilla This site taught me A LOT about the different 4A-GE engines so take the time to read through!

I woudl have thought that if you have, say 220BHP after the mods, assume a 20% transmission loss and cut that to; -44BHP= 176WHP (there or there-abouts)

I hope that I've been a help to you. Good luck,

KP

[monj]

hello mate i have a 20v black top my engine is running standard pistons but silver top conrods so that i can rev the engine higher & king bearings to allow for that.i have fitted a pair of toda 264 9mm lift camshafts , pipercross viper airfilter and a hks f-con pro ecu and when mapped it was running 196BHP @8500RPM at the flywheel. unfortunatley i've been having issues with the mapping so at the mo im just running a standard ecu.

[Dark Magician]

@KPARRIS Cleaning the chambers, same thing as a port and polish, am i ryt ? One of my friends has the lightened flywheel, as he gets through his gears much quicker, though its stand to reason u will lose Torque, he has the exhast cam to conpensate for it. Yea im only looking for NA power, with regards to the gasket, yup its the 0.8mm one from TRD.

@Monji I still want to run my setup with the std ecu, it should be able to still give me good mappings and accomadate the upgrades

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Ok yeh sorry I messed that. They are the same.

I'd like to get a flywheel so report back! :D

[Dark Magician]

lol...Yeah will let you know how its going, I was thinking about a rebore maybe 20 thou...but y rebore if the block is still good as is, besides the motor only has 180000 on it, this wasy i figured let me do a few mods now and just maintain it. What is ur oil consumption like ?

[KPARRIS-JONES]

lol...Yeah will let you know how its going, I was thinking about a rebore maybe 20 thou...but y rebore if the block is still good as is, besides the motor only has 180000 on it, this wasy i figured let me do a few mods now and just maintain it. What is ur oil consumption like ?

cheers, dont you mean only 18k?

I can't tell you what my oil consumption is like because I only got my dad to drive it home so that I could do the engine overhaul. Its now on the work bench and on my bed. Also I'm 15 so couldn't tell you even if the car was running lol.

[Dark Magician]

Mileage is 180000km.

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Mileage is 180000km.

oh right, sorry. I go with imperial lol.

Pretty good.

[Mick24]

Mileage is 180000km.

If the engine has done that sort of mileage, then i would expect to see some taper and ovality on the bores - go for a re-bore and start your build

with fresh bores and pistons.

Depending on your budget, have the crank,front pulley,clutch and flywheel dynamically balanced especially if running high rpm's.

If your having the head ported and polished, have a 3 angle valve job done on the seats to maximise the quicker 'snap' (cam will open the valves quicker) of the aftermarket cam(s).

Uprated valve springs will lessen the chance of valve float at higher rpm as the old springs have done 180K and will be weak when running a higher lift/duration cam.

A new oil pump will ensure that your bottom end will stay strong for a very long time.

If you plan on running an adjustable FPR, is your original fuel pump capable of supplying a higher fuel pressure - you dont want the fuel pump 'leaning out'

and chance seizing a piston in the bore.

Just a few things for you to consider.

Mick

[bigshark]

tbh i think it'll be very hard to get above 200whp mark without forced induction, 200 at the fly is very possible.

it is a very good idea that you are strengthening / uprating your internals if you tend to bounce the rev limiter on the red! as monj said - if you got a blacktop you'd best get some conrods of a silvertop or the 4agze, just incase and get some uprated big end bearings, those are the main thing to consider if you tend to rev the nips of the engine!

keep us updated on your progress!

[Dark Magician]

I have heard abt the 3 angle valve seating, would I need aftermarket springs ?

Im not looking to race the car,...lol well maybe now and again, but the main thing is for daily driving. I have begun ordering my parts slowly, as for the Fuel pump, Im currently using the Denso 1. B) Nothing special.

[Noodie]

my friend he rally team machanic say, you no put a lieght flywheel loose power put 4afe heavy beta power, leave 3 angle u do 5 angle valve betta swirl inlet only you leave pistons put stronga rings and bearings "acl". on camshaft you must put 264' 9mm beta for toyota computer box read fasta,make compression good for your fuel you use with fpr. machanic good rally machanic for Beijing say 20v very good engine make betta power +- 35% increase must do it right compression. ( english not very good difficult for translate )

[KPARRIS-JONES]

my friend he rally team machanic say, you no put a lieght flywheel loose power put 4afe heavy beta power, leave 3 angle u do 5 angle valve betta swirl inlet only you leave pistons put stronga rings and bearings "acl". on camshaft you must put 264' 9mm beta for toyota computer box read fasta,make compression good for your fuel you use with fpr. machanic good rally machanic for Beijing say 20v very good engine make betta power +- 35% increase must do it right compression. ( english not very good difficult for translate )

LWFW will make the engine rev much easier, putting less strain on it, thus allowing more power to reach the wheels across a larger range of the power band.

It wouldn't make it lose power.....

[Dark Magician]

Yeah the flywheel wud make ur engine rev up quicker but i think he is refering to the loss in Torgue, which is correct. ;)

[Noodie]

u neva reade post good friend, say !Removed! 264' 9mm camshalft beta for toyota computer box read fasta make change for "small heavy" flywheel also Rally friend machanic got data tool like blutooth to make software upgrade no use cable very secret,u neva need take friend advise he rally machanic more 12yrs and do many testing not problem only good advise for 20v but see no want advise ok.

[KPARRIS-JONES]

u neva reade post good friend, say puta 264' 9mm camshalft beta for toyota computer box read fasta make change for "small heavy" flywheel also Rally friend machanic got data tool like blutooth to make software upgrade no use cable very secret,u neva need take friend advise he rally machanic more 12yrs and do many testing not problem only good advise for 20v but see no want advise ok.

No need to take it as if I'm trying to say it isn't true. I'm here to learn aswell as to offer advise to people if I can.

You said a loss in power, I take that as BHP, not TORQUE. I know that you lose torque, but you said power.

Jesus, people are so tetchy...... :( Just wanted to help

[Dark Magician]

Easy guys easy, we all learning and giving ideas, if i thought I knew everything i wudnt have joined this forum...

@KPARRIS Dude u reli know ur stuff, a lot of wat u say makes sense. Thing I wanna know is wats the difference between the 272 deg cam with the 8.5mm lift and as Noodie says the 264 deg cam with the 9mm lift....? Can anyone shed some light on this as to where the power comes in ? Also does anyone know whats the measurements on the standard "blacktop" cam ??

@Noodie...here in South Africa we cant chip or software upgrade the 4age 20v ecu...can u tell us how is it done...?

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Easy guys easy, we all learning and giving ideas, if i thought I knew everything i wudnt have joined this forum...

@KPARRIS Dude u reli know ur stuff, a lot of wat u say makes sense. Thing I wanna know is wats the difference between the 272 deg cam with the 8.5mm lift and as Noodie says the 264 deg cam with the 9mm lift....? Can anyone shed some light on this as to where the power comes in ? Also does anyone know whats the measurements on the standard "blacktop" cam ??

@Noodie...here in South Africa we cant chip or software upgrade the 4age 20v ecu...can u tell us how is it done...?

Cheers, I have no problem with anyone, just the getting ubiky because I questioned him.

I think that most engines like the 4A-GE have 254 duration cams as standard, and you can get inlet cams of up to 258 until you need to re-map the ECU.

The really high durations of 272 are for rebuilt turbo-charged engines with strengthened everything!

I don't know how the mm lift relates to the duration, so I will do some research. :)

[Dark Magician]

Hey guys, found an interesting article on cams...duration, lift and the specs on the 4age 20v blacktop cams.

http://www.toymods.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-5293.html

Very interesting read, this will be a big help ;)

[Noodie]

@Noodie...here in South Africa we cant chip or software upgrade the 4age 20v ecu...can u tell us how is it done...?

"Data tool" nota chipping very secrect devise for 20v toyota computer box like cellphone "blutooth" tranfer data to toyota computer box ( send new set maps to computer box )

264 cam best with factory exhaust (factory toyota computer box can make adjust +- 6% self) for 20v work with back pressure best 3 box, biga cam no need so mucha back pressure but needa vernier to mack best result loose low rpm vernier help increase/decrease compression 2 box biga exhaust not so big friend do both make best power/accl with 264 set up. no fight no need use information only good advise.

[Dark Magician]

Sounds interesting, I have already done my exhaust begining of this year, down pipe is 50mm into 57mm till 1st box, then 63mm all the way to the back. 2 boxes. the branch (Header) is still standard. why 264 cam, is this the inlet cam ? or exhaust cam ?

[Dark Magician]

@Noodie...here in South Africa we cant chip or software upgrade the 4age 20v ecu...can u tell us how is it done...?

"Data tool" nota chipping very secrect devise for 20v toyota computer box like cellphone "blutooth" tranfer data to toyota computer box ( send new set maps to computer box )

264 cam best with factory exhaust (factory toyota computer box can make adjust +- 6% self) for 20v work with back pressure best 3 box, biga cam no need so mucha back pressure but needa vernier to mack best result loose low rpm vernier help increase/decrease compression 2 box biga exhaust not so big friend do both make best power/accl with 264 set up. no fight no need use information only good advise.

Can u explain this "Data Tool" you are talking abt, and how it works ?

[bigshark]

i think he is talking about re-mapping the car without wiring the ECU to a computer and the new maps are sent to the ECU via bluetooth, perhaps?? tell us more :D

[Dark Magician]

Yeah, want to know how it is done via bluetooth. Noodie, please tell us more.