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The Great T180 Scandal.


Taylor6971
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Well I suppose it had to happen sooner or later.

The wife phoned this afternoon to say that the rear tyre is flat and as she is blowing it up at the airline she can hear the air escaping.

Phoned Toyota Norwich who said that the nearest place to have it repaired is Attlebrough some 10 miles away, however they shut early this afternoon so I would have to to contact them on Monday but she thinks that there may be a chance to get it done by Tuesday- So decided to try one of the independents as supplied by Kirk Walker from Bridgestone

Local independent wouldn’t consider removing the runflats and putting normal tyres on, they say that it would be altering the cars specification. They also said that as it has been driven (albeit a mile) that the tyre will not be repaired and must be changed, apparently the sidewall on the tyre will be damaged? So the quote is Tyre change £230, if support ring is needed £322. They have to wait until Monday to order the Tyre as they have to prove they are authorised to do this, but are confident to have it done by Tuesday.

So my plan is to take the hit this time, but look for a Garage prepared to get all four changed to Normal ones.

In reality these runflats are nothing more than a hindrance. If she had the same problem with a normal tyre today she could have it fixed and be back on the road by now.

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Well I suppose it had to happen sooner or later.

The wife phoned this afternoon to say that the rear tyre is flat and as she is blowing it up at the airline she can hear the air escaping.

Phoned Toyota Norwich who said that the nearest place to have it repaired is Attlebrough some 10 miles away, however they shut early this afternoon so I would have to to contact them on Monday but she thinks that there may be a chance to get it done by Tuesday- So decided to try one of the independents as supplied by Kirk Walker from Bridgestone

Local independent wouldn’t consider removing the runflats and putting normal tyres on, they say that it would be altering the cars specification. They also said that as it has been driven (albeit a mile) that the tyre will not be repaired and must be changed, apparently the sidewall on the tyre will be damaged? So the quote is Tyre change £230, if support ring is needed £322. They have to wait until Monday to order the Tyre as they have to prove they are authorised to do this, but are confident to have it done by Tuesday.

So my plan is to take the hit this time, but look for a Garage prepared to get all four changed to Normal ones.

In reality these runflats are nothing more than a hindrance. If she had the same problem with a normal tyre today she could have it fixed and be back on the road by now.

bit of a bgr eh?

I had a blowout on the motorway recently with my number1 rav - its got low profile 18" Falken tyres - didn't realise at the time and ran the car 3 miles home. The tyre was intact altho the sidewalls were damaged. Replacement cost? £89 for the tyre!! And the tyres are available easily.

On the subject of tyres, several local independent tyre cos have gone bust in the past month - bad news as it will lead to less competition and prices going up I reckon.

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they are talking !Removed! the runflats are designed to be run at 50mph for 50 miles before they are damaged beond repair.

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Well I suppose it had to happen sooner or later.

The wife phoned this afternoon to say that the rear tyre is flat and as she is blowing it up at the airline she can hear the air escaping.

Phoned Toyota Norwich who said that the nearest place to have it repaired is Attlebrough some 10 miles away, however they shut early this afternoon so I would have to to contact them on Monday but she thinks that there may be a chance to get it done by Tuesday- So decided to try one of the independents as supplied by Kirk Walker from Bridgestone

Local independent wouldn’t consider removing the runflats and putting normal tyres on, they say that it would be altering the cars specification. They also said that as it has been driven (albeit a mile) that the tyre will not be repaired and must be changed, apparently the sidewall on the tyre will be damaged? So the quote is Tyre change £230, if support ring is needed £322. They have to wait until Monday to order the Tyre as they have to prove they are authorised to do this, but are confident to have it done by Tuesday.

So my plan is to take the hit this time, but look for a Garage prepared to get all four changed to Normal ones.

In reality these runflats are nothing more than a hindrance. If she had the same problem with a normal tyre today she could have it fixed and be back on the road by now.

Hi All,

Having just bought a matching alloy from the "retiring from forum" Mereside, then read this, I feel extremely smug in myself. This means I have a full set of wheels, on to which I can eventually fit non-RFT tyres. The foregoing story and money totals are a travesty.

Nobody except advice from forummers will stop me making MY car non-spec / non-standard by changing, especially not some tyre depot who don't even work decent hours to serve the customers they are bonkiing!!!

My thanks again to ORMI near Edinbureau for his educational recent postings on The Great RFT Rip-Off.

Enjoyed my weekend Moan,

Big Kev

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I cannot add anything constructive to this post other than Toyota should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for ever using us as Guinea pigs for this crackpot rft scheme :angry: They have obviously learned the error of their ways by discontinuing them, now how about some compensation for everyone who has been inconvenienced or ripped off because of these runflats :angry: The whole saga is an absolute F******g shambles.. :thumbsup: Stew

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As a former T180 owner I do feel your pain :(

Is it worth finding out how much the tyres are on the face lifted SR model? These are the same Bridgestone tyres (minus run flat), so you could then find an independent to angle grind the run flat doughnut section off the alloys (with care!). You would need to buy a tyre filler from somewhere.

You would then have a car that looks like the normal T180 to the uninformed, but tyres that are quite a bit cheaper to replace! :thumbsup:

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I feel for you, I have been a T180 owner for only for the last 4-5 months and to be honest probably wouldn't have bought one had I found this 'Forum' beforehand. The T180 is a great car, but have already had to replace one tyre (after drain cover sliced my side wall, price £196 Watling tyres Tunbridge Wells) and as a result, which sent me into paranoia, bought a spare wheel and tyre from E Bay £450 delivered (probably the price of at least 2 services).

The problem is two fold not only monetry, but there is absolutely no network to support you when you have a puncture, almost preventing the T180 from being proper transport. Having been a regular T fan (LC though to Mr2 in my younger days(also currently run a Yaris)-and I must add I must be the only person who bought a new Toyota MR2 and had 4 short block engine replacements due to piston slap !)

I am now seriously, if I have any more punctures in succession thinking of PX'ing the car for something else-which I don't want to do.

I hope I don't beat your record!

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I'm sure someone paid over £400 for one a while back. Don't forget that they can damage your valve/tpms (sorry find that your valve has been damaged!! ;) ) when they replace the tyre, which could add another £100 odd to the bill. If I was in a position to change my car, I would.

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My feelings on this subject are well chronicled and I would not only go for standard wheels but make sure they were not fitted with Bridgestones. They are enjoying total exclusivity which is despicable.

All T180 owners should boycott them and let them stew in their unsold rip-off stock.

@rseholes

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Chaps, As usual thanks for all your support.

I managed to catch a local tyre fitter at 1700hrs this evening who thinks he may be able to help. I have forwarded him DarenB's photo's and instructions so that he can see what I am after and he will let me know on Monday if he thinks he can do it. This in effect means that a nail in the tyre today could be costing up to £500 (my guess at the moment).

However, on a positive note, once these are replaced I will be able to keep the car on the road without being held hostage to these stupid tyres and Toyota!

Daren, if you do read this then many thanks for being so organised with the photo's!

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they are talking poop the runflats are designed to be run at 50mph for 50 miles before they are damaged beond repair.

no doubt. I ran my Falken at 70+ so I suppose I got what I deserved. Wheel intact no bother but.

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My feelings on this subject are well chronicled and I would not only go for standard wheels but make sure they were not fitted with Bridgestones. They are enjoying total exclusivity which is despicable.

All T180 owners should boycott them and let them stew in their unsold rip-off stock.

@rseholes

The RFT are not without merit and there is a safety aspect which is being totally ignored. Having control over the car in the event of a blowout or not having to be in the dangerous situation of changing a flat wheel at the side of a road on a 4x4 vehicle with vans and lorries flying past at speed is something you can not put a price on.

I cant have this whining about the price of a puncture or a RFT. Do your homework and know the cost of these things-dont let the dealer or independent put the arm in.

Anchorman, i cant see what a boycott would achieve and im surprised at you getting involved with the penny pinchers. I would not put £89 tyres on any vehicle let alone a 4x4.

The RFT fightback begins.

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T180 Belfast, perhaps my point wasn’t as clear as it should be. I am employed as a Health and Safety consultant so the concept of Risk v Cost v Likelihood v Severity isn’t new to me

Penny pinching is not something I am guilty of. I am quite happy to pay for good quality tyres for my car, but to have to pay £1300 for 4 is over the top in comparison to other cars of a similar mark with similar systems. When I bought this car there was a reasonable scheme in place that was withdrawn without consultation leaving me and others in the captive position of having to pay a premium!

My vehicle seldom goes on motorways or dual carriageways so to quantify the need for these due to blowouts would be over the top but I would hope that the cars anti-skid system would play it's part in preventing accident as well.

The cost of the tyre is £118, the band £46, so my homework is done. Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain how this ends up being £330 fitted. Puncture with a nail, car driven for 5 miles to garage! If you know of anywhere within 50 miles of Norwich where I can have this fitted for half the price that’s been quoted then please let me know.

All tyres meet safety standards and the manufacturing costs of these ones are no different, they simply are marked to show there is a runflat band inside. The difference comes in the fact that we are paying for our share of the expensive equipment that is required to fit them.

We don’t have a choice! We have to use a garage that has the Bridgestone Run Flat equipment installed, so I fail to see how we can follow your advice. “don’t let the dealer or independent put the arm in”. And to be fair to them they have been forced to install this equipment at considerable cost. The garage I spoke to yesterday says he uses the equipment on average once every four months.

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Anchorman, i cant see what a boycott would achieve and im surprised at you getting involved with the penny pinchers. I would not put £89 tyres on any vehicle let alone a 4x4.

The RFT fightback begins.

Its a good job you don't run a black cab like me, a few of those (NOT MINE) are running £25 remoulds, :eek: New Michelin Taxi tyres £60 supplied fitted + balanced :lol::thumbsup: Stew
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My feelings on this subject are well chronicled and I would not only go for standard wheels but make sure they were not fitted with Bridgestones. They are enjoying total exclusivity which is despicable.

All T180 owners should boycott them and let them stew in their unsold rip-off stock.

@rseholes

The RFT are not without merit and there is a safety aspect which is being totally ignored. Having control over the car in the event of a blowout or not having to be in the dangerous situation of changing a flat wheel at the side of a road on a 4x4 vehicle with vans and lorries flying past at speed is something you can not put a price on.

I cant have this whining about the price of a puncture or a RFT. Do your homework and know the cost of these things-dont let the dealer or independent put the arm in.

Anchorman, i cant see what a boycott would achieve and im surprised at you getting involved with the penny pinchers. I would not put £89 tyres on any vehicle let alone a 4x4.

The RFT fightback begins.

Hi T180,

I think that if you are going to talk about "safety aspects" you might consider the wider Toyota/RAV4 picture. I can see that the Bridgestone RFT system could be considered a safety feature but it's difficult to portray it in that light when it’s so difficult to get the tyres repaired. If they are suitable for 50 miles at 50 mph it still wouldn’t mean that you could drive confidently in any part of the UK let alone anywhere else. The temptation would be to exceed the “50 miles” to get to a place where you could get a repair or if you were really lucky – a replacement. I don’t know how long the tyre would really last before it was reduced to shreds or, probably more likely, caught fire.

Contrast this with the situation on the rest of the RAV range where there is no spare wheel and no TPMS. If you have a puncture, particularly on a high speed road, you are very unlikely to find out about it until the sidewall is irreparably damaged. To effect a repair it is necessary to re-inflate the tyre after filling it with a sealing compound. Toyota supply a Repair Kit in lieu of the spare wheel which includes the jack, sealing compound and a compressor. This procedure has a very high degree of risk associated with it as there is no way of knowing the structural condition of the tyre wall when you are repairing it. That to me is an accident waiting to happen.

Toyota would no doubt argue that the lack of a spare wheel is no great threat as we all have far fewer punctures these days. I think that Taylor6971 would agree that this is not the way to go about a risk assessment, it is necessary to consider the consequences of an incident as well as the likelihood. IMHO Toyota are exposing themselves to a claim of negligence the first time the failure of a compound filled tyre causes an accident.

Both the supply of the RFT and the repair systems are commercial decisions by Toyota to reduce the kerbside weight of the vehicle and allow them to achieve and claim fuel consumption and emissions figures that they wouldn’t manage otherwise. It also reduced their build costs and potentially increases their profit margin.

I find it difficult to justify the lack of even a space saver spare wheel when it has the potential to put the customer at, what is to my mind, an unacceptable risk and have along with others on this forum, mitigated the risk in my own vehicle by carrying a spare wheel and fitting an aftermarket TPMS.

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the tyres on the rav even when flat will never shred or catch fire the tyres don't compress enough for that to happen and thats what the band is their to stop.

don't get me wrong i'm all for run flat tyres just not the ones on the rav bmw,audi,reno etc have run flats and they dont use the bands.

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My feelings on this subject are well chronicled and I would not only go for standard wheels but make sure they were not fitted with Bridgestones. They are enjoying total exclusivity which is despicable.

All T180 owners should boycott them and let them stew in their unsold rip-off stock.

@rseholes

The RFT are not without merit and there is a safety aspect which is being totally ignored. Having control over the car in the event of a blowout or not having to be in the dangerous situation of changing a flat wheel at the side of a road on a 4x4 vehicle with vans and lorries flying past at speed is something you can not put a price on.

I cant have this whining about the price of a puncture or a RFT. Do your homework and know the cost of these things-dont let the dealer or independent put the arm in.

Anchorman, i cant see what a boycott would achieve and im surprised at you getting involved with the penny pinchers. I would not put £89 tyres on any vehicle let alone a 4x4.

The RFT fightback begins.

I'm not advocating the use of budget tyres - I won't use them myself but I do object strongly with Bridgestone and Toyota colluding in the use of an exclusivity deal on the most consumable item other than the fuel. It isn't the concept I object to it is the cartel. On the other hand, Bridgestone are supposed to have opened up the market by letting independants stock the tyres. So far the cost is either higher than going to Toyota or they just can't or won't hold them. It stinks.

I don't know that the new SR with conventional 18" wheels and tyres is any less safe than a T180.

Just my opinion.

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I'm getting pretty fed up with the whole Run Flat saga. I'll be needing 2 new front tyres very soon so i enquired at my local dealers about the possibility of removing the support ring and relying on tyre repair kit. They said it was possible but I would need to speak to Toyota UK direct to get their approval. I rang the toyota customer care department on Thursday morning and spoke to a lady who did seem to know there was an issue with the BSR system but was unable to give me any definitve advice. She would only give her "Recommendation", when I really wanted to a yes/no answer to whether the dealership could remove the support ring. I asked if she could speak to the technical team and get back to me, but I am still waiting. If the independants are also refusing to take the support ring out (dont fancy anyone taking an angle grinder to the rims) I think I will be seriously contemplating trading the car in for something else, but there is nothing that really tickles my fancy.

I have emailed the nearest suitablly kitted independant place to see if they are able/willing to the remove the support rings. So we will wait to see what they have to say, but even if I am able to remove the BSR i would still have the added problem of the Tyre Pressure Sensors.

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My feelings on this subject are well chronicled and I would not only go for standard wheels but make sure they were not fitted with Bridgestones. They are enjoying total exclusivity which is despicable.

All T180 owners should boycott them and let them stew in their unsold rip-off stock.

@rseholes

The RFT are not without merit and there is a safety aspect which is being totally ignored. Having control over the car in the event of a blowout or not having to be in the dangerous situation of changing a flat wheel at the side of a road on a 4x4 vehicle with vans and lorries flying past at speed is something you can not put a price on.

I cant have this whining about the price of a puncture or a RFT. Do your homework and know the cost of these things-dont let the dealer or independent put the arm in.

Anchorman, i cant see what a boycott would achieve and im surprised at you getting involved with the penny pinchers. I would not put £89 tyres on any vehicle let alone a 4x4.

The RFT fightback begins.

Haha - so you wouldn't use Falken tyres then??? I'd suggest you deserve what you get then. If the Falken can survive a blowout at 100 with no effect on the cars handling then it says a lot for both the tyre and the 4.1 model. Of course if its a 5 door LWB you have, then I can't comment.

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Most of what I want to say has already been covered. As per Taylor6971, there was a reasonable replacement scheme in place when i bought. I specifically asked the saleman about it, and he even gave me an internal doc with the charges etc, which have been posted on this forum in the past. Also, I do not scrimp on tyres either. My last car was a Mazda RX8, with 18" low profile tyres. I replaced these, all 4 at once, when the time came, at a cost of £180+ a corner. As anchorman says, it's the cartel they have that annoys me. I would prefer to have RFT's, but not this system. And also, as Taylor6971 is experiencing now, your car can be off the road for 3 or 4 days. Mine was off road for 2 and half days when I had a puncture.

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Most of what I want to say has already been covered. As per Taylor6971, there was a reasonable replacement scheme in place when i bought. I specifically asked the saleman about it, and he even gave me an internal doc with the charges etc, which have been posted on this forum in the past. Also, I do not scrimp on tyres either. My last car was a Mazda RX8, with 18" low profile tyres. I replaced these, all 4 at once, when the time came, at a cost of £180+ a corner. As anchorman says, it's the cartel they have that annoys me. I would prefer to have RFT's, but not this system. And also, as Taylor6971 is experiencing now, your car can be off the road for 3 or 4 days. Mine was off road for 2 and half days when I had a puncture.

The debate of run flats will never go away !!. Having had a blow out many years ago I like having the runflats, expensive yes, but what price safety? I had to replace all 4 at the beginning of the year, £950 !!. But what I did was keep the best tyre aprrox 4mm in tread so if I ever need one I can at least keep mobile until I get a replacement.

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As a victim of the Toyota/Bridgestone cartel, I can categorically state that the whole system stinks to high heaven. My RAV was off the road for almost a week because of a puncture! I bought a spare wheel and tyre off eBay for peace of mind, because it's not much use to be able to cover 50 miles at 50 mph if you're 200 miles from home and don't want to wait days for a dealer to fit a tyre for you and rip you off in the process. When I had my recent puncture, I contacted several independent fitters, all of whom were more expensive than my dealer! Not very satisfactory and I'll be chopping the RAV in next year for something else and Toyota can stick their brand up their a**e as far as I'm concerned. All because they used T180 owners as guinea pigs for a system that they have now quietly dropped.

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More like trapped rats than guinea pigs. They weren't experimenting, they knew exactly what they were doing.

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T180 Belfast, perhaps my point wasn’t as clear as it should be. I am employed as a Health and Safety consultant so the concept of Risk v Cost v Likelihood v Severity isn’t new to me

Penny pinching is not something I am guilty of. I am quite happy to pay for good quality tyres for my car, but to have to pay £1300 for 4 is over the top in comparison to other cars of a similar mark with similar systems. When I bought this car there was a reasonable scheme in place that was withdrawn without consultation leaving me and others in the captive position of having to pay a premium!

My vehicle seldom goes on motorways or dual carriageways so to quantify the need for these due to blowouts would be over the top but I would hope that the cars anti-skid system would play it's part in preventing accident as well.

The cost of the tyre is £118, the band £46, so my homework is done. Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain how this ends up being £330 fitted. Puncture with a nail, car driven for 5 miles to garage! If you know of anywhere within 50 miles of Norwich where I can have this fitted for half the price that’s been quoted then please let me know.

All tyres meet safety standards and the manufacturing costs of these ones are no different, they simply are marked to show there is a runflat band inside. The difference comes in the fact that we are paying for our share of the expensive equipment that is required to fit them.

We don’t have a choice! We have to use a garage that has the Bridgestone Run Flat equipment installed, so I fail to see how we can follow your advice. “don’t let the dealer or independent put the arm in”. And to be fair to them they have been forced to install this equipment at considerable cost. The garage I spoke to yesterday says he uses the equipment on average once every four months.

These are high quality tyres and if they are good enough for Lexus.............. I changed two RFT a few weeks ago costing £120 each + vat + £20 fitting - so £1300 for four seems totally exorbitant. Don't have any sympathy for the garage because when you are being quoted these types of prices ( when you already know the average cost ) they don't have any for you. Haggle hard and listen to no hard luck stories about machines not being used.

The RFT is a very good system on an excellent car. Safety comes first with me and cost further down the list.

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More like trapped rats than guinea pigs. They weren't experimenting, they knew exactly what they were doing.

Anchorman The T180 is a top of the range vehicle aimed at a different market than the rest of the Rav range and the RFT system is part of this strategy. Using the terms like trapped rats and guinea pigs is disingenuous to me, who is more than happy with the RFT system.

My wife is the main driver of the car and to know she is not sitting at the side of the road -day or night- with a flat is reassuring.This along with all the other safety kit, driver aids and four wheel drive when needed makes the T180 a very worthy car.

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