Rav4 T180

[markiebhoy]

Hi all,

Here goes with my story...

purchased a T180 18 months ago, 06 plate, fairly high mileage but ex company car, full service history, and purchased for my missus as the family car at a really good price! Approx 2 months ago she tells me the heating system is not working and to cut a long story short... she cooked the engine!!

When investigating the engine, I found she was losing water, this led to my mechanic having to remove the cylinder head to check the cylinder head gasket, which led to us finding a crack in the cylinder head. During the removal of the cylinder head, 3 injectors popped out 1st time, the fourth injector wouldnt budge!! After much elbow grease, the fourth injector sheared in half!! Keep in mind i have 3 injectors and one sheared!

Bottom line, get rid of the car or get a new engine. She loves her T180 so a new engine was the road we went down

After much investigating, I managed to get my hands on a 57 plate 2nd hand engine taken from an Insurance rear end write off, 12 month warranty and only 16k on the clock for £1400 and the company also promised engine would have 4 new injectors!!

Started looking up, engine popped in however the wiring loom with the four plugs that connect to the injectors are the originals and the casing for these plugs are a different shape so will not plug into the new injectors!!

Question 1: Whare do I go from here, the company who provided the engine does not have a new wiring loom to fit the injectors?

My mechanic has told me that everything else is ready to rock and roll, fuel pump kicks in, diesel feed into injectors pressure tested to 400 bar however the injectors just wont work! My mechanic done an ugly job by wiring the old loom plugs to the new injectors just to get by but nothing happens!

Question 2: Company who provided the new engine tells me I need to get the injectors coded to the ecu, so get the car transported to Toyota dealer in Kilmarnock, who have just called me to tell me that their computer will not communicate with the ecu, they have only worked at Toyota for a short period of time and dont know what to do next!!!!

I know this all probably sounds gobbledegook but if anyone can make any sense of it or needs any further info to help me along the way then please just ask as I just dont know what to do next!

Thanks in advance

Markie

[Jamesbelfast]

Are you using the original fuel pump and other ancilliaries such as MAF, etc??:)

[shcm]

From the info I have (and it may not be completely up date), the connector for the T180 engine injectors (piezo based) look like this

The T140 engine injectors (conventional solenoid based) connector looks like this:

Yes, the injectors will need calibration data coded into the ECU.

Not saying the following is correct, but have you considered the following:

Are you using the original ECU? Could it be an immobilisation problem? i.e. the immobilisation system is now talking to an engine management system it doesn't recognise (incorrect codes).

When trying to talk to the EMS ECU, the Toyota garage is probably using a Toyota specific protocol. Can they (or your mechanic) talk to it just using E-OBD? This would at least show some working comms, though I expect it will not allow you to code the injectors in that way.

Injectors wired with correct polarity?

Correct T180 (piezo) injectors? I would think it likely the injector driver box would not drive injectors if it detected ones with incorrect impedance.

Others who do more mechanical messing than me may be able to add more constructive comments. Good Luck!

[ormi]

if you had just went to toyota they prob would have done the repair free!!!!!the pink coolant eats the head gaskets so toyota are repairing these!!!oh well you live and learn,theirs a few posts about this and i'm sure they were all fixed free by toyota(yes even out of the 3 years 60k warranty)seen a few being done at work and i have done a rebuild on one of the 2.2.

i would have said not too butcher the wiring and buy the correct injectors approx £350 each from toyota or the engine should have been sent back.

as above the wrongly matched injectors will not work with the ecu

[shcm]

Ormi - has Mr T. done anything about the long life coolant or improved the head gasket material or are they just living with it?

[markiebhoy]

Just been to see an electrical engineer who is gonna start again with it, but wants to check that all the wiring is in place and as it should be, i.e no loose connections etc but he has asked if i can get hold of a wiring diagram for the injector system so he knows exactly what each coloured cable is doing etc. Does anyone have this that I could use. Already been into Toyota who werent playing ball with that request!!

Thanks in advance

[shcm]

All that stuff is available for about 3 euros per hour, if you register, here:

http://techdoc.toyota-europe.com/

2AD-FHV (T180) diagram attached:

fhvems.pdf

[highlandjock]

if you had just went to toyota they prob would have done the repair free!!!!!the pink coolant eats the head gaskets so toyota are repairing these!!!oh well you live and learn,theirs a few posts about this and i'm sure they were all fixed free by toyota(yes even out of the 3 years 60k warranty)seen a few being done at work and i have done a rebuild on one of the 2.2.

i would have said not too butcher the wiring and buy the correct injectors approx £350 each from toyota or the engine should have been sent back.

as above the wrongly matched injectors will not work with the ecu

Hi Can you elaborate on the pink coolant, you said it eats headgaskets!!! is there a recall on this fluid. cant seem to find anything on it

thanx

[markiebhoy]

if you had just went to toyota they prob would have done the repair free!!!!!the pink coolant eats the head gaskets so toyota are repairing these!!!oh well you live and learn,theirs a few posts about this and i'm sure they were all fixed free by toyota(yes even out of the 3 years 60k warranty)seen a few being done at work and i have done a rebuild on one of the 2.2.

i would have said not too butcher the wiring and buy the correct injectors approx £350 each from toyota or the engine should have been sent back.

as above the wrongly matched injectors will not work with the ecu

Hi Can you elaborate on the pink coolant, you said it eats headgaskets!!! is there a recall on this fluid. cant seem to find anything on it

thanx

I mentioned that to the Toyota engineer I was speaking to today and he said he had never heard of the pink coolant eating headgaskets or repairing any engines due to this, not doubting you mate cos the Toyota mob here dont know their asses from their elbows!!

[anchorman]

There is an issue where the pink coolant can generate steam pockets and cause head gaskets to fail. Don't panic, it isn't widespread.

[highlandjock]

There is an issue where the pink coolant can generate steam pockets and cause head gaskets to fail. Don't panic, it isn't widespread.

cool

[markiebhoy]

From the info I have (and it may not be completely up date), the connector for the T180 engine injectors (piezo based) look like this

The T140 engine injectors (conventional solenoid based) connector looks like this:

Yes, the injectors will need calibration data coded into the ECU.

Injectors wired with correct polarity?

Correct T180 (piezo) injectors? I would think it likely the injector driver box would not drive injectors if it detected ones with incorrect impedance.

Just out of utter curiosity, I take it the injectors/connectors (picture 1) have not changed at all on the T180 from 06 plate thru to o8??

[shcm]

Just out of utter curiosity, I take it the injectors/connectors (picture 1) have not changed at all on the T180 from 06 plate thru to o8??

To be honest, I don't know. I can't see why they would want to change the harness end connector though. It would be a bit of a pain.

Looking at the injector assembly part numbers on this site here:

http://www.toyodiy.com/

The T180 (FHV) injector part number is shown as: 23670‑29055. toyodiy only goes up to about 2007 though.

A slightly later (but still out of date) Toyota part catalogue I have shows 23670-29105 as the production part after October 2007.

Remember for the T180 there is also an injector in the exhaust. toyodiy shows that as 23710-26010 or 23710-26011. The catalogue I have shows 23710-26011 as the only production part for that from April 2007.

For the T140 23670-09140 is shown as the injector part number from production dates Nov 2005 to Jan 2007. From Jan 2007 23670-09190 is the part number. TSB (Technical service bulletin) EG-8008 (Feb 2008) shows that 23670-09290 supersedes 23670-09140 and 23670-09270 supersedes 23670-09190.

Whether there have been any updates for the T180, I don't know or can't remember. Anchorman sometimes keeps on top of these things more than me. Maybe he has some TSBs which relate to the T180, or alternatively you could log onto techdoc yourself and have a look, to see if there have been any updates.

[markiebhoy]

Have been back onto the mob who provided me with the engine to ask them for the number plate or chassis number of the vehicle the engine was taken from so I could check exactly what the hell it was that they sent me. They promised to call back with the info but after a while they called me to tell me that they did not have those details. they have now made this proposal and I would appreciate any advice on what I should do next.

They have offered to collect my original T180 engine on Monday, rebuild it to original standard all using new Toyota parts and tested, return it to me to be dropped into the car and only then will they collect the original engine they sent me. This will not be at any further expense to myself and they are offering a 12 month warranty on the engine. Is all this worth the 1400 I originally paid or should I just demand my money back and start the search again?? Im also 450 out of pocket for work already carried out on dropping the original engine out and throwing the new one back in, which I will no doubt have to pay again!!

Again any advice much appreciated

P.S. just for your own info, the mob I have been dealing with in purchasing the new engine etc is as follows:

MPL Engines UK

International Car Spares

11 Winsor Street

Oldham

OL1 4AE

Tel: 0161 628 0444

[anchorman]

I also think this is more involved than a straight swap. The least I would expect is to need to change the Injector driver unit (thats the alloy box with fins just on the bulkhead on the drivers side roughly in front of the steering column but under the bonnet!). It may then need further recalibration as new like for like injectors are not "plug and play". Mine had some under warranty to cure cold diesel knock and the had to remove the old ones and send them to the supplier (Denso UK) for reading and they recalibrated the new ones accordingly - 3 days of a job. You are going a step further by changing piezo for solenoid injectors so it could be injectors, EDU (Injector driver), and ECU. Things might have been different on a like for like swap. The RAV is a good car but it is dripping with electronics and that can make some otherwise straight forward sounding jobs quite complicated. I think the ECU is probably linked to the imobiliser so its where to stop grafting electronics from the doner which is the difficult question.

Good luck with that one.

[shcm]

My understanding is that it is allegedly a T180 (FHV) engine swap for a T180 engine. You would expect the injector type (and connector) not to change. In that situation, the EDU should therefore not need changing, I would expect. Injector re-calibration though - yes.

The engine that's been sent, doesn't exactly sound the same, and so yes dropping that one in may well require a whole load of other changes that weren't expected.

Anchorman, I have to put a lot of current through my electronics to make it drip. :P

I guess there is no way of telling the engine variant from it's number? Looking at mine it is just 2ADxxxxxxx, and I expect the T180 one is going to start 2AD as well (2AD-FHV compared with 2AD-FTV)?

[markiebhoy]

After many phone calls back and forward, they have agreed to pick up the original cooked T180 engine in Glasgow and take it back down to Oldham to re condition the engine, they will also pick up the Rav in Kilmarnock, transport it to meet up with the engine, refit the original engine and "make sure its back to how it should be". The only condition is that I have to travel to Oldham to pick up the car when ready and drive it back to Kilmarnock off my own back! Really hope this will bring to a satisfactory conclusion and will advise you all as and when I have more information!

Why do I think this is not the end of this particular saga?????????

Thanks for all your help and advice so far

Regards

Mark