Sr 180 Chipped 210bhp

[illegalhunter]

I love this thread

[Rick D4D]

I love this thread

Brilliant in it? and yet all the same questions keep coming up and we never get a 100% answer, I am amazed as most TD cars now days you get chipped from a proper supplier for around the £200 yet this chip we have no evidence of it being tested on an Auris T180 / SR180 and just a say so of the expected power gains and this costs around 40% more than the average TD chip . If this was around the £200 mark I would give it a go for sure but for £375 there is too many ifs and buts for my liking and when someone makes an educated comment (Bretta) all you get is abuse back now what is all that about?

[illegalhunter]

I see the BHP Police will have to be called to sort this one out .

[Rick D4D]

I see the BHP Police will have to be called to sort this one out .

I suspect there will be then this will lead to before the followed by with a lot of people :lol2: :lol2: and maybe the BHP Police will threaten a which could lead to a group but you could ride off into the sunset on real power (no dyno needed this is 100% 1HP). :lol2:

[downtime]

Finally I will again leave you with a question:- Kingo must have completed research into the product before agreeing to sell the product on behalf of the German maker of the box, so can we see it, simple question to answer.

For if it is so hard to get into the Denso ECU, how did the German maker of the box know which values to alter away from the OEM without causing spikes and altering the values wrongly, and please do not refer to the graph as posted before for a Rav4, as these have totally different losses at the wheels and flywheel to an Auris, the dyno should be model specific to mean anything ??????

As we still live in an analog world in boost and fueling controls it's actually pretty easy to just measure the values that are going to the injectors. Then you would of course need to analyze these and make up a replacement values to give more "punch" to the engine.

Of course this is just a simplified example but in my opinion (engineer in electronics & computers) you don't need an access to the Denso ECU to get this info. Getting the ECU map is always the easiest road of course. I give more credit to this "reverse engineering" approach.

Tell me beretta, have you ever heard of "black box" design? That's a way how most of the companies outsource their product projects. The company outside only knows what's going in and coming out but they don't know how the device works exactly.

Oh, and do you think that each car has a unique fueling map in the ECU??? No no... Default map that has a lot of safe margin. This margin is the thing that most mappers use to get more power and torque.

There seems to be a misconcept here that the ECU optimization is always the best as it's been done for each car and each car has a unique fueling map. That's also wrong. Most of the optimizations are generic maps which are more efficient in controlling the fuel/air mixture. BSR for example has different maps for manual and automatic gearboxes for a specific model and engine but that's about it.

As a sidenote, the ECU mapping will always give more power and torque as the mappers can directly change the fueling from there. In tuning boxes you still need to leave a good safety margin so that there's no EML light or anything like that.

Like someone wrote here that in racing world you tune each engine and ECU to match the parts in it. Yes, there it really is like that to get the most out of the car. But in civilian tuning, you get a "generic" optimized fuel map for your car.

Dyno tuners are different but so is the cost. You won't get that for £375, probably not for £1375 either.

So for cars with Denso ECU and MANUAL gearboxes a good quality tuning box should be a safe option. For other car makes and models and gearbox types ECU tuning should be the best option. Tuning box for a automatic gearbox isn't necessarily a good option as they don't usually limit the torque in any way.

Just my another 2 cents.

[dawesy]

Boost spikes do not kill turbos (unless they are massive), engine damage will occur first! FACT.

it is true that there is a huge safety buffer built into the maps on production cars as it cuts down on warranty claims.

for instance the 3S-GTE can be made to produce around 320 BHP with nothing more than a boost increase and a remap. that is around 70BHP more than the amount claimed by Toyota as std. i know of cars running this power with no ill effects.

the same will be true of any modification to an engine. if Toyota designed the engine to be reliable for 250,000 miles then you may reduce its life to 200,000 miles by running more power.

AFAIK Kingo has A 14 DAY MONEY BACK OFFER if not entirely happy so why not buy one and take it and have it run on a dyno? seems to be the easiest solution to save all the bickering!

[Rick D4D]

On a different subject congratulations on the moderator status Dawsey, you got my vote:)

[daiashthomas]

not totally off the subject but............ two of my mates have got Fabia Vrs one is running 175bhp, and the other one is 190bhp and considering the vrs is 130bhp standard these are pretty good figures.

once someone does start fully mapping and producing graphs, we could expect figures over 210bhp hopefully, and alot more torque lol......... (like we need it)

[OldSkoO1]

Like he said, the engine will be fine, turbo fine, DPF fine etc

My only worry would be the gearbox / clutch / flywheel handling the extra torque.

I dont know enough about what box the t180 runs etc...

Only reason i haven't plunged so far is the insurance company really dont like my turning the car. It would add a lot as it stands.

[daiashthomas]

Like he said, the engine will be fine, turbo fine, DPF fine etc

My only worry would be the gearbox / clutch / flywheel handling the extra torque.

I dont know enough about what box the t180 runs etc...

Only reason i haven't plunged so far is the insurance company really dont like my turning the car. It would add a lot as it stands.

gearbox/clutch/flywheel YES!!!!

i currently own a civic 2.2 ex turbo diesel (clutch is slipping on standard ecu map!!!!) getting done under warranty and changing to an Auris....... (the real jap manufacturer!) almost went VAG after test driving an A3 S-line Quattro TDi 140 but it was 2 years older than the civic, and had twice the mileage, and was 1500 quid to change! and didn't have Nav, bluetooth, Cruise etc.....

forgot to add in my previous post that the only thing my mates had done was change the clutch on their Vrs's

[Heidfirst]

I feel because the T180 / SR180 is harder to map companies are charging a lot more as there is less competitors around rather than the fact they cost that much more to manufacture.

it's called capitalism/the free market ...

but no doubt it did cost more to develop/manufacture than simpler solutions.

[Beretta]

I see the BHP Police will have to be called to sort this one out .

I suspect there will be then this will lead to before the followed by with a lot of people :lol2: :lol2: and maybe the BHP Police will threaten a which could lead to a group but you could ride off into the sunset on real power (no dyno needed this is 100% 1HP). :lol2:

Brilliant post and so true, this thread is just going round and round in circles and will just disappear up its own exhaust pipe, so I will sit in the shadows, and wait until some actual evidence arrives regarding these boxes, as at the moment its all guess work, and, as nothing has been shown to give any substance to the claims, the figues as quoted cannot, at this time be believed.

One thing though, of course it is well known that manufacturers out scource products to others suppliers, but do you honestly think they would give something as complex as this to someone, and not give them the full details of what they are working with?

If Toyota are out scourcing work, they know only too well what would happen if the said item failed to work as it should, and the warranty work and expense that would involve, but again do you honestly believe Toyota would give such information to the person in Germany who makes these boxes??????????????????????????

Dawsey, its not bickering, its just Myself, Illegalhunter and Rick asking for information in a polite way, that just does not get answered, and as for boost spikes not killing turbos unless they are massive, this is the reason for the request, and has been stated time, after time.

It would seem that Illegalhunter, Rick and I all seem to be asking the the wrong questions, and according to some on here, we should just part with £1125 between us, on a product we know nothing about..................Yea right!!!!!!!

April 1st is still a long way off.

[downtime]

One thing though, of course it is well known that manufacturers out scource products to others suppliers, but do you honestly think they would give something as complex as this to someone, and not give them the full details of what they are working with?

If Toyota are out scourcing work, they know only too well what would happen if the said item failed to work as it should, and the warranty work and expense that would involve, but again do you honestly believe Toyota would give such information to the person in Germany who makes these boxes??????????????????????????

I think you misread my posts meaning. I was just using the "black box" design philosophy as an example to make out a point that you don't necessarily need to know how something works to alter the outputs it makes correctly. Somehow it's starting to look that you DO NOT want to understand what's been written here.

For example these tuning boxes. You would easily get the pulse information by attaching an oscilloscope parallel to the fuel rail sensor and drive around. You would get a log of the pulses it's putting out. Then you just widen the pulse to keep the injectors open for a longer period of time.

The real beauty comes from the correct timing and widening of the pulses you're altering. You would need to take into account the rpm figure, throttle position and so on. Also if you want to make sure that all the fuel is being burnt, you need to calculate a correct air/fuel ratio and also control the amount of air being fed to the combustion chamber.

It's not rocket science and it DOES NOT differ from ECU remap in any way if the tuning box is done correctly. ECU remap just gives you more power and torque usually.

There are a lot of tuning boxes around that have been proven to work. Dragon, Steinbauer etc. But the price of those boxes is earth shattering. From 700 € to 1500 €. So in my opinion this WORKING box for little over 400 € is a bargain.

Anyway. It's not my loss that you don't believe in this product. I'm happy driving around with the extra power while you bicker and moan here.

[Beretta]

One thing though, of course it is well known that manufacturers out scource products to others suppliers, but do you honestly think they would give something as complex as this to someone, and not give them the full details of what they are working with?

If Toyota are out scourcing work, they know only too well what would happen if the said item failed to work as it should, and the warranty work and expense that would involve, but again do you honestly believe Toyota would give such information to the person in Germany who makes these boxes??????????????????????????

I think you misread my posts meaning. I was just using the "black box" design philosophy as an example to make out a point that you don't necessarily need to know how something works to alter the outputs it makes correctly. Somehow it's starting to look that you DO NOT want to understand what's been written here.

For example these tuning boxes. You would easily get the pulse information by attaching an oscilloscope parallel to the fuel rail sensor and drive around. You would get a log of the pulses it's putting out. Then you just widen the pulse to keep the injectors open for a longer period of time.

The real beauty comes from the correct timing and widening of the pulses you're altering. You would need to take into account the rpm figure, throttle position and so on. Also if you want to make sure that all the fuel is being burnt, you need to calculate a correct air/fuel ratio and also control the amount of air being fed to the combustion chamber.

It's not rocket science and it DOES NOT differ from ECU remap in any way if the tuning box is done correctly. ECU remap just gives you more power and torque usually.

There are a lot of tuning boxes around that have been proven to work. Dragon, Steinbauer etc. But the price of those boxes is earth shattering. From 700 € to 1500 €. So in my opinion this WORKING box for little over 400 € is a bargain.

Anyway. It's not my loss that you don't believe in this product. I'm happy driving around with the extra power while you bicker and moan here.

Whilst I totally agree with some of the comments, all of this debate seems to revolve around what "could and should" have been done to arrive at the correct figures within the tuning box, but, without any evidence, how do we know it has been done?

That is the base question that none of us seem to get answered, and whilst we can all sit and quote facts and figures, it seems to accomplish nothing, so yes your right I will live without one for the time being.

Kingo states that he has sold hundreds with only a minimal fault rate, but out of these hundreds of satisfied customers, only seems to have five or six positive testimonials, which I find strange, for if they were as satisfied as quoted, then I would have thought they would be queueing up to add their praises.

Much in the same way as the sellers of these boxes on Flea-bay get, with nearly all sales getting a positive feed back and only minimal negative feed back, especially when you see how many they are selling, so they cannot all be just a resistor in a box.

Anyway, lets all agree to disagree until dynos come along, as this is too gyratory for me, and to keep going over the same thing day after day serves no purpose.

[Parts-King]

Kingo states that he has sold hundreds with only a minimal fault rate, but out of these hundreds of satisfied customers, only seems to have five or six positive testimonials, which I find strange, .

I have sold hundreds and I do ask for customer testimonials and feedback, however most people never put pen to paper (or finger to keyboard) That does'nt make them bad people or indeed a bad product. One thing is for sure, if the product was no good, then this forum would be littered with people complaining, strangely enough, I have'nt found one, have you?

If you read post 24 then I think that sums up what I will be doing, and that is what I promised a while ago but just havnt been able to yet, but WILL sort out, and that is a dyno graph, I suspect that will just start off another thread, either Kingo's chip does what it says on the tin, or he is a charleton and does a runner with your money, somehow I doubt the latter

Kingo

[Jamesbelfast]

Kingo states that he has sold hundreds with only a minimal fault rate, but out of these hundreds of satisfied customers, only seems to have five or six positive testimonials, which I find strange, .

I have sold hundreds and I do ask for customer testimonials and feedback, however most people never put pen to paper (or finger to keyboard) That does'nt make them bad people or indeed a bad product. One thing is for sure, if the product was no good, then this forum would be littered with people complaining, strangely enough, I have'nt found one, have you?

If you read post 24 then I think that sums up what I will be doing, and that is what I promised a while ago but just havnt been able to yet, but WILL sort out, and that is a dyno graph, I suspect that will just start off another thread, either Kingo's chip does what it says on the tin, or he is a charleton and does a runner with your money, somehow I doubt the latter

Kingo

Yes a before and after dynograph from an indpendent source woiuld be really nice to see.:)

[Parts-King]

Yes a before and after dynograph from an indpendent source woiuld be really nice to see.:)

Watch this space ;)

Kingo

[Rick D4D]

I have sold hundreds and I do ask for customer testimonials and feedback, however most people never put pen to paper (or finger to keyboard) That does'nt make them bad people or indeed a bad product.

Kingo

I doubt we have 50 Auris T180 / SR180 owners here but if you have sold hundreds of Auris T180 / SR180 boxes then I am very sure there will be quite a few owners reading this who are not typing there comments So please all you Auris T180 / SR180 owners please spend 5 minutes and maybe answer us all a few questions

1. How does the MPG compare when driven the same as without the box?

2. Have you experienced any problems at all?

3. What mileage have you done with your box fitted?

4. How do you rate your Auris T180/SR180 now with this box fitted?

5. Whos box do you have fitted? is this one of Kingo's?

6. Is it worth the money and would you buy this now knowing what you know?

7. How much more did your insurance cost?

Thanks for your time and I look forward to a flock of answers from people who normally dont have time to share there experiences with us.

[Parts-King]

OK, lets put a few things right

When I say we have sold hundreds of boxes, I am of course talking about ALL models, life just doesnt exist around T180 tuning boxes, so if I gave the impression we sold hundreds of T180 kits, then I need to make it clear we havnt, although we have sold in excess of 25 retail T180 kits, many more to people who distribute for me too

Now I sell these kits all over the world, so if you think they are all going to pop into Toyota Owners club to express an opinion then you might be waiting a long time ;)

My only regret in this whle saga was that I couldnt get a dyno graph sooner, so with the aid of a colleague who has been following this thread, I have been able to borrow a T180 and an INDEPENDANT Dyno has been prepared, here is what my colleague had to say!

Hi John, having been following the thread regarding the T180 Auris tuning kit I felt it important to actually test one these cars to help you bring the issue to a close. These cars are very rare but I managed to borrow this one from a local dealership to test for you. The car was 2007 Auris T180 in blue with 15900 miles on the clock and appeared in perfect condition.

The car was driven by me to the dyno in standard form as is reasonably punchy in the lower gears but not so much from 4th to 6th. I drove approx 40 miles to the dyno which was a dyno pack dyno which is attached directly to the front wheel hubs once the wheels are removed.

I took with me the four tuning kits you sent with the various settings low/mid/high and max. We tested the car in standard form (red line on graph) and it acheived 167.6 Bhp and 325lb/ft torque but as you can see the graph has a few dips in it, the dyno operator commented that the standard mapping may not be particularly good.

Second box/run (green lines on graph) was with the low settings box, this acheived around 198 Bhp and 370lb/ft torque. It should be noted that after fitting the box and testing 2 or 3 runs were done each time as the box seemed to improve gradually each time it was tested reaching its max on the third test, I assume it takes a few minutes to fully adapt its new adjustments to the engine.

Third box/runs (blue lines on graph) with mid settings saw 204 Bhp and 378lb/ft torque.

Last box/run (purple on the graphs) I was able to do due to running out of time having to return the car and another vehicle waiting to use the dyno showed 212 Bhp and 379lb/ft torque.

You had given me a fourth box marked max but as I said due to time constraints I was unable to test it.

Given that the car was 10Bhp less than Toyota quote for standard power, if you add 10bhp to the final run you have 222 Bhp, I can only guess that if I had time to test the final kit or do two more tests with this one it would have exceeded the quoted figures on your website but that is presumption.

Comments on driving the car back with the box on, WOW! The car is literally transformed, I can understand what your customers mean when they say it transforms the car, it literally is day and night difference, flat spots are gone and it pulls from immediately when you press the pedal right to over 4000 rpm with no surges or flat spots just a strong agressive power delivery all the way.

You can also see from the graph that the power and torque curves before the box are not so smooth, after the box is fitted the graphs are much improved and you can really feel it when driving on the road. The dyno guy commented that the car would probably perform even better on the road due to better cooling than when on the dyno.

He also pointed out that the last torque curve shown in purple had a dip near its peak for whatever reason, by this stage the car was running quite hot, had the curve increased naturally without the dip the torque figure would have been much higher again. Sadly as mentioned we ran out of time to do any more runs.

He also pointed out that in the midrange BHP you have increases of just over 50Bhp at just around 3250rpm and at around the same point 3250 rpm you have 80lb/ft torque increase. All in all I believe the box has more than proved itself to me anyway, I can only imagine what the figures would have been with the max box. I understand from speaking with you that you run these generally at the mid setting and I would say that would probably give the most pleasant drive as the high is quite agressive in lower gears as in second it was quite difficult to get traction although the roads are greasy.

I have taken photos of the car connected to the dyno pack should anyone have doubts this was actually an Auris tested.

Here is the graph for all to see, lets hope this does the subject to death! The results you can see are outstanding, just look at how the power curve is smoothed out

Kingo

[downtime]

--Removed---

[bobbo7070]

Well there we have it! Definitely want one now!!!

Could I add another question to Ricks list...?

How much extra did your insurance company charge you on top?

It seems some don't want too much more, but some quoted me over double my current premium... if they were willing to quote at all!

I appreciate that the extra info is of no interest to some

Thanks.

[Rick D4D]

Could I add another question to Ricks list...?

How much extra did your insurance company charge you on top?

It seems some don't want too much more, but some quoted me over double my current premium... if they were willing to quote at all!

I appreciate that the extra info is of no interest to some

Thanks.

Done

1. How does the MPG compare when driven the same as without the box?

2. Have you experienced any problems at all?

3. What mileage have you done with your box fitted?

4. How do you rate your Auris T180/SR180 now with this box fitted?

5. Whos box do you have fitted? is this one of Kingo's?

6. Is it worth the money and would you buy this now knowing what you know?

7. How much more did your insurance cost?

Thanks for your time and I look forward to a flock of answers from people who normally dont have time to share there experiences with us.

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Thanks Kingo, some good information there!

[Rick D4D]

Thanks Kingo, some good information there!

Yes there is but we still dont know how reliable these cars are with this fitted, now that John has corrected himself about the hundreds of these sold we now know he has only sold about 25 of these boxes that have been fitted to an Auris T180 / SR180, I would still like to know the answers to these questions from independent buyers of this product and hopefully people who have done more than 10k with this fitted, as these will not be biased in any shape or form.

1. How does the MPG compare when driven the same as without the box?

2. Have you experienced any problems at all?

3. What mileage have you done with your box fitted?

4. How do you rate your Auris T180/SR180 now with this box fitted?

5. Whos box do you have fitted? is this one of Kingo's?

6. Is it worth the money and would you buy this now knowing what you know?

7. How much more did your insurance cost?

I also still think that £375 is still a lot for this kit and that if they was around £300 that would be more acceptable even through that is £100 / 50% more expensive than other companies that sell similar products (not eBay resistors in a box).

[cabcurtains]

As you can see i dont have a 180, however i do have a box on a 2.2 D4D and i would like to add my comments:

1. How does the MPG compare when driven the same as without the box? - + 4-5 MPG

2. Have you experienced any problems at all? - A little bit more smoke when driving hard i.e to blow out the EGR

3. What mileage have you done with your box fitted? - 8,000

4. How do you rate your Auris T180/SR180 now with this box fitted? N/A

5. Whos box do you have fitted? is this one of Kingo's? The german adjustable one, fuel rail sensor only.

6. Is it worth the money and would you buy this now knowing what you know? Yes, because its better on fuel and has improved drivability.

7. How much more did your insurance cost? - £120, which will be covered by the additional MPG

The box is running on the middle settings at present, no plans to turn it up any higher. The car has a lady Driver and isnt ragged about.