T3x 2.2 D4d 55 Plate, Engine Noise & Blue Smoke Help

[darren.t]

This is my 4th Toyota and the only one which I seem to be having some concern over which the dealer is not sharing my same concerns.

The car very randomly rattles excessively well in my opinion, I know that’s hard to explain when someone cant here the noise but I’ve been working on building sites for the last 15 years and I’ve heard quieter JCB’s and plant on site. The rattling noise is not there all the time and is very random when it happens it’s sometimes happens when the engine is up to temperature and sometimes when it’s cold?

Plus it randomly coughs out a cloud of blue smoke, which is very concerning, the smoke seems to come once it has been standing for a while. I’ve been driving now for 23 years and must have had about at least 10 diesel cars and vans from nasty old Citroens to new vw’s etc and none of them have produced this much smoke but very randomly when it happens.

Obviously every time I have had it in to my local Toyota dealer either a quick visit in or left overnight it has never done it, allegedly. And they keep saying there is nothing wrong with it. But surly this amount of blue smoke and noise can’t be normal I certainly don’t think so, for a modern car that’s only done 46K miles. I’ve heard other D4D cars and they don’t seem to rattle as loud on tick over.

Has anyone had any experiences like this? Or got any advice?

The car is still under extended warranty.

Cheers

[zeeworld]

This is my 4th Toyota and the only one which I seem to be having some concern over which the dealer is not sharing my same concerns.

The car very randomly rattles excessively well in my opinion, I know that’s hard to explain when someone cant here the noise but I’ve been working on building sites for the last 15 years and I’ve heard quieter JCB’s and plant on site. The rattling noise is not there all the time and is very random when it happens it’s sometimes happens when the engine is up to temperature and sometimes when it’s cold?

Plus it randomly coughs out a cloud of blue smoke, which is very concerning, the smoke seems to come once it has been standing for a while. I’ve been driving now for 23 years and must have had about at least 10 diesel cars and vans from nasty old Citroens to new vw’s etc and none of them have produced this much smoke but very randomly when it happens.

Obviously every time I have had it in to my local Toyota dealer either a quick visit in or left overnight it has never done it, allegedly. And they keep saying there is nothing wrong with it. But surly this amount of blue smoke and noise can’t be normal I certainly don’t think so, for a modern car that’s only done 46K miles. I’ve heard other D4D cars and they don’t seem to rattle as loud on tick over.

Has anyone had any experiences like this? Or got any advice?

The car is still under extended warranty.

Cheers

your turbo is on the way , get it sorted before warrenty expires, the rattle is from the turbo

[rolfharris]

This is my 4th Toyota and the only one which I seem to be having some concern over which the dealer is not sharing my same concerns.

The car very randomly rattles excessively well in my opinion, I know that’s hard to explain when someone cant here the noise but I’ve been working on building sites for the last 15 years and I’ve heard quieter JCB’s and plant on site. The rattling noise is not there all the time and is very random when it happens it’s sometimes happens when the engine is up to temperature and sometimes when it’s cold?

Plus it randomly coughs out a cloud of blue smoke, which is very concerning, the smoke seems to come once it has been standing for a while. I’ve been driving now for 23 years and must have had about at least 10 diesel cars and vans from nasty old Citroens to new vw’s etc and none of them have produced this much smoke but very randomly when it happens.

Obviously every time I have had it in to my local Toyota dealer either a quick visit in or left overnight it has never done it, allegedly. And they keep saying there is nothing wrong with it. But surly this amount of blue smoke and noise can’t be normal I certainly don’t think so, for a modern car that’s only done 46K miles. I’ve heard other D4D cars and they don’t seem to rattle as loud on tick over.

Has anyone had any experiences like this? Or got any advice?

The car is still under extended warranty.

Cheers

Hi

Could be a possible turbo But a quick inspection is this:

Remove the airbox top and boot from the turbo.

with a long screwdriver and a torch, shine the torch in to the turbo and notice the turbo shaft, with the long screwdriver see if you can move the turbo shaft laterally, If you can feel play in the shaft then the turbo is starting to wear.

Do you have any performance issues?

How does it start in the mornings? excessive smoke?

Have you had an oil consumption test performed? if so how much oil was used and in what mileage?

what tests have your dealer performed?

you can pm me any time..

let me know..

[darren.t]

To continue with the saga I took the car for its MOT yesterday, and asked them if they could have another look at the problems, i.e. random blue smoke excessive rattling and it using a small amount of oil and fast tick over.

They turned round and said the problems could be down to the egr valve so they said to clean it out first to see if this helps and if it doesn’t the they will ask the warranty company to replace it, so obviously they charged me the pleasure of cleaning it out of £74.

They picked up on an issue with the front brake discs been worn thin close to the limit as part of the mot/inspection.

The only strange thing that makes me a little sceptical is that I have always had a copy of the emission test print out stapled to the mot certificate which ever car it has been but this year no print out and when asked I was told I did not need it as the machine only displayed the results, not 100% sure about this statement, I think they are making excuses, weather this is because of a hidden problem or just forgot to make a printout or attached to the test cert I don’t know, all I know is it makes me a little suspicious that I have taken it in for a smoke problem and there is no print from the emissions test!!

The car still seems to be the same at the moment.

Comments & Advice Please

Cheers

[rolfharris]

To continue with the saga I took the car for its MOT yesterday, and asked them if they could have another look at the problems, i.e. random blue smoke excessive rattling and it using a small amount of oil and fast tick over.

They turned round and said the problems could be down to the egr valve so they said to clean it out first to see if this helps and if it doesn’t the they will ask the warranty company to replace it, so obviously they charged me the pleasure of cleaning it out of £74.

They picked up on an issue with the front brake discs been worn thin close to the limit as part of the mot/inspection.

The only strange thing that makes me a little sceptical is that I have always had a copy of the emission test print out stapled to the mot certificate which ever car it has been but this year no print out and when asked I was told I did not need it as the machine only displayed the results, not 100% sure about this statement, I think they are making excuses, weather this is because of a hidden problem or just forgot to make a printout or attached to the test cert I don’t know, all I know is it makes me a little suspicious that I have taken it in for a smoke problem and there is no print from the emissions test!!

The car still seems to be the same at the moment.

Comments & Advice Please

Cheers

OK Darren Have a look at this..... As long as your vehicle is within the range of avensis (dont have your car details) I bet you this will fix your car.. I've seen Avensis's kick out loads of blue smoke when the Injectors are bad..

Sorry about the "Rough" copy I've used this paper work a lot!

You will need the Toyota Intelligent Tester II (same the main dealers have) to complete the Injector compensation procedure.. I have all the equipment to complete this repair.. email or PM any time..

[rolfharris]

To continue with the saga I took the car for its MOT yesterday, and asked them if they could have another look at the problems, i.e. random blue smoke excessive rattling and it using a small amount of oil and fast tick over.

They turned round and said the problems could be down to the egr valve so they said to clean it out first to see if this helps and if it doesn’t the they will ask the warranty company to replace it, so obviously they charged me the pleasure of cleaning it out of £74.

They picked up on an issue with the front brake discs been worn thin close to the limit as part of the mot/inspection.

The only strange thing that makes me a little sceptical is that I have always had a copy of the emission test print out stapled to the mot certificate which ever car it has been but this year no print out and when asked I was told I did not need it as the machine only displayed the results, not 100% sure about this statement, I think they are making excuses, weather this is because of a hidden problem or just forgot to make a printout or attached to the test cert I don’t know, all I know is it makes me a little suspicious that I have taken it in for a smoke problem and there is no print from the emissions test!!

The car still seems to be the same at the moment.

Comments & Advice Please

Cheers

OK Darren Have a look at this..... As long as your vehicle is within the range of avensis (dont have your car details) I bet you this will fix your car.. I've seen Avensis's kick out loads of blue smoke when the Injectors are bad..

Sorry about the "Rough" copy I've used this paper work a lot!

You will need the Toyota Intelligent Tester II (same the main dealers have) to complete the Injector compensation procedure.. I have all the equipment to complete this repair.. email or PM any time..

Hi Darren I have emailed you some info..

As you Avensis has the 2ADFTV engine you will have to check if the Injectors are the new or old type... This can be done as described on the 1st page of the TSB.. OR if you want to email or post a GOOD quality picture of the top of one injector I will be able to tell you...

This is a picture from the Toyota EPC

Notice the part number of the injector.... see that it matches the injector part number of the old type in the TSB above.. This will supersede to the new part number when ordered from Toyota

I have complete this repair many times, the Injectors (if needed) to be replaced then the "Injector Compensation" Procedure needs to be completed after the new injectors are installed...

Thanks

Carl

[rolfharris]

This is my 4th Toyota and the only one which I seem to be having some concern over which the dealer is not sharing my same concerns.

The car very randomly rattles excessively well in my opinion, I know that’s hard to explain when someone cant here the noise but I’ve been working on building sites for the last 15 years and I’ve heard quieter JCB’s and plant on site. The rattling noise is not there all the time and is very random when it happens it’s sometimes happens when the engine is up to temperature and sometimes when it’s cold?

Plus it randomly coughs out a cloud of blue smoke, which is very concerning, the smoke seems to come once it has been standing for a while. I’ve been driving now for 23 years and must have had about at least 10 diesel cars and vans from nasty old Citroens to new vw’s etc and none of them have produced this much smoke but very randomly when it happens.

Obviously every time I have had it in to my local Toyota dealer either a quick visit in or left overnight it has never done it, allegedly. And they keep saying there is nothing wrong with it. But surly this amount of blue smoke and noise can’t be normal I certainly don’t think so, for a modern car that’s only done 46K miles. I’ve heard other D4D cars and they don’t seem to rattle as loud on tick over.

Has anyone had any experiences like this? Or got any advice?

The car is still under extended warranty.

Cheers

Hi Darren please check your email..

[svennard]

Hi

I've a smilar issue with my 56 plate 2.2D4D Rav4. Very very noisy at low revs and particularly lumpy at about 1700rps.

My RAV4 only has 36k on the clock. I've only done about 5-6k since I bought it two years ago and I'm really fed up now.

In short, it sounds like a tank. At low speed, particularly pulling away, and at low rev's it produces an embarassing knocking noise, which whilst intermittent, happens about 75% of the time. It tends to be better when cold, but not always. It seems perfectly smooth when at speed.

No matter how conservatively I drive it, I can't get over 31 mpg (it did go up brief when I cleaned out the EGR)

I noticed the comment about the turbo, but I don't think its that - the turbo seems to whistle away quite nicely. It's not that kind of noise - its def a heavy dull 'tappets/pinking' kind of sound

Mine was also suffering from excessive smoke - I saw the post about the EGR and followed the instructions to clean it - it was in a dreadful state, completely full to the brim with carbon. Having done that, the smoking issue disapeared and it seemed a lot better, but within a few miles, it seems to have dropped back to the way it was - and I had a hint of smoke when I started it today.. Only about 200miles since cleaning.

Its such a shame. Very rarely, I'll start it up and it will be nice, quiet and I really enjoy driving it - unfortunately, most of the time I have to nurse it off the drive, trying to keep the 'knocking' to a minimium.

There is clearly something fundamental wrong here, perhaps leading to the excessive build up of carbon in the EGR, the noise and poor economy.

The consensus seems to suggest that it might be a dodgy injector or two which I guess would produce all of the above symptoms.

Question is, can I easy diagnose an injector problem without the need for costly visits to a dealer - I just can't use any dealership for service or repairs - I've had too many bad experiences over the years.

Help please, Steve

[igormus]

This is my 4th Toyota and the only one which I seem to be having some concern over which the dealer is not sharing my same concerns.

The car very randomly rattles excessively well in my opinion, I know that’s hard to explain when someone cant here the noise but I’ve been working on building sites for the last 15 years and I’ve heard quieter JCB’s and plant on site. The rattling noise is not there all the time and is very random when it happens it’s sometimes happens when the engine is up to temperature and sometimes when it’s cold?

Plus it randomly coughs out a cloud of blue smoke, which is very concerning, the smoke seems to come once it has been standing for a while. I’ve been driving now for 23 years and must have had about at least 10 diesel cars and vans from nasty old Citroens to new vw’s etc and none of them have produced this much smoke but very randomly when it happens.

Obviously every time I have had it in to my local Toyota dealer either a quick visit in or left overnight it has never done it, allegedly. And they keep saying there is nothing wrong with it. But surly this amount of blue smoke and noise can’t be normal I certainly don’t think so, for a modern car that’s only done 46K miles. I’ve heard other D4D cars and they don’t seem to rattle as loud on tick over.

Has anyone had any experiences like this? Or got any advice?

The car is still under extended warranty.

Cheers

hello mate

rattling:

- poor injection (over fueling);

- fuel filter blocking;

- EGR valve blocking by carbon.

Cheers/Igor

[Druid Boy]

In the old days a puff of blue smoke on starting after beign stood for a while/overnight indicated worn valve seals allowing a small quantity of oil to run into the combustion chamber which was then burnt off at first ignition. Doesn't explain your rattling though, and that sounds very much like a fueling issue. Perhaps an independant fuel injection specialist may be able to run a fixed price diagnosis for you. At least this way you can be fairly confident of their findings.

If the car is under warranty you Toyota dealer has nothing to gain from hiding problems from you. I believe that their warranty work is covered by Toyota GB under their franchise. It may well be that they simply cannot replicate the fault in the time they have the car.

[Mistermena]

Hi

I've a smilar issue with my 56 plate 2.2D4D Rav4. Very very noisy at low revs and particularly lumpy at about 1700rps.

My RAV4 only has 36k on the clock. I've only done about 5-6k since I bought it two years ago and I'm really fed up now.

In short, it sounds like a tank. At low speed, particularly pulling away, and at low rev's it produces an embarassing knocking noise, which whilst intermittent, happens about 75% of the time. It tends to be better when cold, but not always. It seems perfectly smooth when at speed.

No matter how conservatively I drive it, I can't get over 31 mpg (it did go up brief when I cleaned out the EGR)

I noticed the comment about the turbo, but I don't think its that - the turbo seems to whistle away quite nicely. It's not that kind of noise - its def a heavy dull 'tappets/pinking' kind of sound

Mine was also suffering from excessive smoke - I saw the post about the EGR and followed the instructions to clean it - it was in a dreadful state, completely full to the brim with carbon. Having done that, the smoking issue disapeared and it seemed a lot better, but within a few miles, it seems to have dropped back to the way it was - and I had a hint of smoke when I started it today.. Only about 200miles since cleaning.

Its such a shame. Very rarely, I'll start it up and it will be nice, quiet and I really enjoy driving it - unfortunately, most of the time I have to nurse it off the drive, trying to keep the 'knocking' to a minimium.

There is clearly something fundamental wrong here, perhaps leading to the excessive build up of carbon in the EGR, the noise and poor economy.

The consensus seems to suggest that it might be a dodgy injector or two which I guess would produce all of the above symptoms.

Question is, can I easy diagnose an injector problem without the need for costly visits to a dealer - I just can't use any dealership for service or repairs - I've had too many bad experiences over the years.

Help please, Steve

I'd stick a tin of BG244 in the tank and see what happens! Worth a shot

[svennard]

Thanks for the ideas

I have run a number of cans of forte through the system, with no noticeable difference. I also changed the fuel filter a couple of months ago (with an oil/filter / air filter change too)

I took the EGR apart again today. It does have some carbon in it, but nothing that would be causing this degree of problem

It seems like something more fundamental than that.

The car is out of warranty so no temptation to go back to a dealer. I guess I could live with it, but it is completely spoiling my enjoyment of the car. Plus, what happens if I get a complete failure?

For £120+vat I can get the injectors tested. If repairable the cost is around £160 each. If not repairable...!!

The only thing niggling in the back of my mind is that I am running a tuning box on it - have done ever since I bought it. I remember that it wasn;t displaying these problems when I bought the car(otherwise I would have been back to the dealer) but I did put the tuning box on within a couple of months. I've not taken it off in all the time I've had the car.

The tuning box does make a noticeable difference in the performance, but could the trade off be, noisy idle/low rev running due to the injector pressure alterations. Have searched the web to see if anyone else has made such a link, but nothing def, other than some random people suggesting that tuning boxes can damage the injectors beyond repair (but they don't really back it up with the science)

In any case,I've just took the tuning box off and re-set the ECU (Battery disconnect). I think I'll run it like that for a week or so and see whether the running of it improves. It just could be the tuning box..?

[Mistermena]

Thanks for the ideas

I have run a number of cans of forte through the system, with no noticeable difference. I also changed the fuel filter a couple of months ago (with an oil/filter / air filter change too)

I took the EGR apart again today. It does have some carbon in it, but nothing that would be causing this degree of problem

It seems like something more fundamental than that.

The car is out of warranty so no temptation to go back to a dealer. I guess I could live with it, but it is completely spoiling my enjoyment of the car. Plus, what happens if I get a complete failure?

For £120+vat I can get the injectors tested. If repairable the cost is around £160 each. If not repairable...!!

The only thing niggling in the back of my mind is that I am running a tuning box on it - have done ever since I bought it. I remember that it wasn;t displaying these problems when I bought the car(otherwise I would have been back to the dealer) but I did put the tuning box on within a couple of months. I've not taken it off in all the time I've had the car.

The tuning box does make a noticeable difference in the performance, but could the trade off be, noisy idle/low rev running due to the injector pressure alterations. Have searched the web to see if anyone else has made such a link, but nothing def, other than some random people suggesting that tuning boxes can damage the injectors beyond repair (but they don't really back it up with the science)

In any case,I've just took the tuning box off and re-set the ECU (battery disconnect). I think I'll run it like that for a week or so and see whether the running of it improves. It just could be the tuning box..?

Just out of interest mate what Tuning box you running on the car? Its not one of those cheap ones off Fleabay is that kid the ECU into ramming more fuel into the injectors because it thinks its cold all the time.

I know that Part-King (Kingo) sells tuning boxes and I've not heard of anyone having any problems with damage to the engine components! Other companies like "TUNIT" sell tuning boxes just for derv drivers, and seem to have a very good rep. But they cost around £385 plus VAT...