Incorrect Oil Used For Gen 3 Service

[Ancient Nerd]

My Gen 3 Prius has just had its first 10,000 mile service yesterday, with some very interesting results.

• The service operations were recorded on a form headed Prius Hybrid (NHW-20) Dec 2003-on.
  
• The oil used was only described as Engine oil on the invoice, so I checked what was used. It was Toyota 5W-30, not the correct 0W-20.
  

After a number of phone calls to and from the service receptionist and after sales director, the story is:

• Toyota hasn't yet issued any checklist form for the Gen 3 Prius, so they are using the old Gen 2 form. I'm told that the operations are the same, so it is not a problem.
  
• The technicians who have been on the Toyota course for the Gen 3 were specifically told that the oil to be used was 5W-30. I don't know if the dealer service documentation confirms this. I am told that this is being escalated to Toyota.
  

Anyway, the oil is being replaced tomorrow with the correct grade.

Can anyone with Toyota connections confirm that what I have been told is correct, or if I am being fed porkies? On past performance (4 services of a Gen 2), either option is possible.

I also suggest, very strongly, that if your Gen 3 has been serviced recently that you contact your dealer and check that the correct grade of oil was used. If it is due a service in the next few months, it is well worth spelling out that you require the correct grade to be used, or supply your own oil.

[wooski]

My Gen 3 Prius has just had its first 10,000 mile service yesterday, with some very interesting results.

• The service operations were recorded on a form headed Prius Hybrid (NHW-20) Dec 2003-on.
  
• The oil used was only described as Engine oil on the invoice, so I checked what was used. It was Toyota 5W-30, not the correct 0W-20.
  

After a number of phone calls to and from the service receptionist and after sales director, the story is:

• Toyota hasn't yet issued any checklist form for the Gen 3 Prius, so they are using the old Gen 2 form. I'm told that the operations are the same, so it is not a problem.
  
• The technicians who have been on the Toyota course for the Gen 3 were specifically told that the oil to be used was 5W-30. I don't know if the dealer service documentation confirms this. I am told that this is being escalated to Toyota.
  

Anyway, the oil is being replaced tomorrow with the correct grade.

Can anyone with Toyota connections confirm that what I have been told is correct, or if I am being fed porkies? On past performance (4 services of a Gen 2), either option is possible.

I also suggest, very strongly, that if your Gen 3 has been serviced recently that you contact your dealer and check that the correct grade of oil was used. If it is due a service in the next few months, it is well worth spelling out that you require the correct grade to be used, or supply your own oil.

Sounds like another Toyota UK ***** up with the Gen 3. It must be 0W-20 - clearly says so in the manual. Logic tells you it must be so to protect the petrol engine with all the stopping and starting of the motor.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

My Gen 3 Prius has just had its first 10,000 mile service yesterday, with some very interesting results.

• The service operations were recorded on a form headed Prius Hybrid (NHW-20) Dec 2003-on.
  
• The oil used was only described as Engine oil on the invoice, so I checked what was used. It was Toyota 5W-30, not the correct 0W-20.
  

After a number of phone calls to and from the service receptionist and after sales director, the story is:

• Toyota hasn't yet issued any checklist form for the Gen 3 Prius, so they are using the old Gen 2 form. I'm told that the operations are the same, so it is not a problem.
  
• The technicians who have been on the Toyota course for the Gen 3 were specifically told that the oil to be used was 5W-30. I don't know if the dealer service documentation confirms this. I am told that this is being escalated to Toyota.
  

Anyway, the oil is being replaced tomorrow with the correct grade.

Can anyone with Toyota connections confirm that what I have been told is correct, or if I am being fed porkies? On past performance (4 services of a Gen 2), either option is possible.

I also suggest, very strongly, that if your Gen 3 has been serviced recently that you contact your dealer and check that the correct grade of oil was used. If it is due a service in the next few months, it is well worth spelling out that you require the correct grade to be used, or supply your own oil.

Sounds like another Toyota UK ***** up with the Gen 3. It must be 0W-20 - clearly says so in the manual. Logic tells you it must be so to protect the petrol engine with all the stopping and starting of the motor.

I hope you get this sorted or clarified from Toyota as my 10k service is coming up around the month end. Well, if I ever manage to get off my drive :(

[Ancient Nerd]

Well, the car went back to the dealer, and the oil is now the correct 0W-20.

However, their aftersales director's promise to do it at my convenience fell a bit flat. I arranged to get it done at lunchtime just after 12, expecting to be back in the office well within an hour, after all, how long does an oil change take?

After a bit over an hour had gone by, there was no sign of the car and no-one at the reception desk. So I rang the after sales director again. He seemed as surprised as I was. Anyway a few more minutes and he'd obviously stirred people into life.

It seems that any time the car is taken into the workshop, it must go through the visual checks, which make up most of the service. So it actually took a good hour and a half, and nearly two hours out of the office.

At least they had the decency not to charge the extra cost of the oil, given the amount of time wasted.

The main point I see from this is that if the charge for oil on your invoice is less than £50, especially if it's not much over £30, then they have supplied the wrong oil. Make sure it is replaced with the correct 0W-20

[Fujisan]

Make sure it is replaced with the correct 0W-20

I think that's the important point for all of us to take away.

Before handing over the keys to the service manager / receptionist, look them straight in the eye and say 'you are going to use 0W-20 oil aren't you' and if they hesitate for even a second, make sure they confirm with the person actually doing the job that they will use 0W-20!

[Ikelos]

being the way I am, I have visions of them keeping the car for an hour, bringing it round to the front, with the "There you are sir, all done" with the same oil in it...........or is it just me?

[phil4]

being the way I am, I have visions of them keeping the car for an hour, bringing it round to the front, with the "There you are sir, all done" with the same oil in it...........or is it just me?

I'll never forget my dad taking his car in. Safety check said brakes ok. Car dirty as it was obviously hadn't been removed. He asked them to demonstrate how they might have checked, they couldn't explain.

In short, don't trust them.

I always check the oil before and after visually. Usually black before, golden after.

[Ikelos]

Phil............we think together...

[eddieinvader]

Standard Toyota oil, as far as I know it goes in all the cars.

[Jamesbelfast]

being the way I am, I have visions of them keeping the car for an hour, bringing it round to the front, with the "There you are sir, all done" with the same oil in it...........or is it just me?

I'll never forget my dad taking his car in. Safety check said brakes ok. Car dirty as it was obviously hadn't been removed. He asked them to demonstrate how they might have checked, they couldn't explain.

In short, don't trust them.

I always check the oil before and after visually. Usually black before, golden after.

Sadly if you own a diesel the replacemnt oil will probably be just as black as before. I haven't used a garage for servicing for years. But any time I had to leave a vehicle in for servicing I marked all the relevent contact points (oil, air, fuel, cabin filter plus sump plug) with an UV pen and then checked afterwards. Many year ago when working for a company who had a fleet of vans I used this technique and I caught quite a number of garages cheating. Better still a local dealership was fined for such malpractice.

Guess what Car Dealership was involved - the clue is in the link below. Look at the picture.:)

Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6903310.stm

[Ancient Nerd]

• Toyota hasn't yet issued any checklist form for the Gen 3 Prius, so they are using the old Gen 2 form. I'm told that the operations are the same, so it is not a problem.
  
• The technicians who have been on the Toyota course for the Gen 3 were specifically told that the oil to be used was 5W-30. I don't know if the dealer service documentation confirms this. I am told that this is being escalated to Toyota.
  

Does anyone know if the service checklist is unchanged from the Gen 2, and if dealer technicians are really trained to use the (wrong) 5w-30 oil. Or am I being fed porkies?

[xanderglass]

I have just asked my Totota garage what oil they use and they replied 5w-30.

However they will use 0w-20 but only if I am prepared to pay extra as my service ageement with them apparently only covers me for the cheaper grade of oil.

[Ikelos]

That last post, sums it all up, glad I never took out the maintenance contract. it seems as bad as the Gap insurance they tried to sell me, they wanted about £300, got home and had a look on the internet and you can get it for about £100 or less.

[ian rooke]

Hi according to the owners manual 0w-20 is the preferred oil but not the only oil that can be used 5w-20 will give the same cold protection (-29c ) this could be used for top up

but should be replaced at the next oil change.When I got my prius the dealer gave me 1 liter of 5w-20 for top up but I intend to insist on a oil change using 0w-20 as recommended by Toyota

[Ancient Nerd]

I have just asked my Totota garage what oil they use and they replied 5w-30.

However they will use 0w-20 but only if I am prepared to pay extra as my service ageement with them apparently only covers me for the cheaper grade of oil.

Hi XG,

So your dealer quoted a low price for an unsuitable service to get your custom, knowing they will actually charge a higher price to service the car correctly. So it's either fraud or ignorance.

I suggest you write a letter to them telling them that you expect them to service the car using the correct materials, including the 0W20 oil specified in the owner's handbook. Tell them that you will take any necessary action to recover additional costs involved if they don't agree. Send a copy to Toyota UK Customer Service. If they refuse, contact your local Trading Standards department - it may save you the trouble of chasing them.

In any case, you might just prefer to cancel the contract, reclaim any money handed over and go to somewhere you can trust.

[xanderglass]

First can I thank Ancient Nerd for his reply to my comments.

I have just rung the technical department at Toyota UK and they have assured me that the 5W-30 grade of oil can be used without any detrimental effects on the latest Prius. They did say I could ask for the 0W-20 grade but again stated that either could be used.

[johalareewi]

Have got this URL from Toyota on their blog where this was discussed...

(Note: Melissa Coulton is the official Toyota person)

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-prius-everyth...-1#comment-5235

It would seem that Toyota are saying 5W-30 is OK for a Gen3 in the UK but you may get reduced mpg.

[eddieinvader]

First can I thank Ancient Nerd for his reply to my comments.

I have just rung the technical department at Toyota UK and they have assured me that the 5W-30 grade of oil can be used without any detrimental effects on the latest Prius. They did say I could ask for the 0W-20 grade but again stated that either could be used.

As I previously stated this is standard Toyota oil 5W-30 grade, for all their cars.

[wooski]

I know I'm only going to allow 0W-20 in my car. This sort of thing is just too important if you plan to keep your car long term as I plan too.

Some dealers really do try and pull a fast one. Seem's Toyota's are no different. Hopefully as my dealer in London sells the most Prius of any dealer the garage will be looking after alot of them and will have all this sorted.

[Ancient Nerd]

Have got this URL from Toyota on their blog where this was discussed...

(Note: Melissa Coulton is the official Toyota person)

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-prius-everyth...-1#comment-5235

It would seem that Toyota are saying 5W-30 is OK for a Gen3 in the UK but you may get reduced mpg.

My reading of that blog is that 5W-30 won't damage your engine, but it is not the preferred choice.

The Owner's Manual states quite clearly that 0W-20 is the preferred oil. It also says:

If SAE 0W-20 oil is not available, SAE 5W-30 oil may be used. However, it should be replaced with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil change.

I can see no reason whatever why a dealer should fill the car with anything other than 0W-20, unless they have run out of stock.

To fill a second time with 5W-30 would be in direct conflict with Toyota's instructions.

Given xanderglass's response from Toyota UK's technical dept, I am beginning to think that between Toyota UK and my dealer, the blind are leading the blind.

Anyway, to make sure, I will be taking my own oil to the dealer in future. At least using Mobil 1 or Amsoil, I can be reasonably certain that the oil will stay in grade for the 10,000 miles. I'm not sure the original Toyota oil did, and there is no way that a 5W-30 semi-synthetic does.

[kevin h]

Have got this URL from Toyota on their blog where this was discussed...

(Note: Melissa Coulton is the official Toyota person)

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-prius-everyth...-1#comment-5235

It would seem that Toyota are saying 5W-30 is OK for a Gen3 in the UK but you may get reduced mpg.

My reading of that blog is that 5W-30 won't damage your engine, but it is not the preferred choice.

The Owner's Manual states quite clearly that 0W-20 is the preferred oil. It also says:

If SAE 0W-20 oil is not available, SAE 5W-30 oil may be used. However, it should be replaced with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil change.

I can see no reason whatever why a dealer should fill the car with anything other than 0W-20, unless they have run out of stock.

To fill a second time with 5W-30 would be in direct conflict with Toyota's instructions.

Given xanderglass's response from Toyota UK's technical dept, I am beginning to think that between Toyota UK and my dealer, the blind are leading the blind.

Anyway, to make sure, I will be taking my own oil to the dealer in future. At least using Mobil 1 or Amsoil, I can be reasonably certain that the oil will stay in grade for the 10,000 miles. I'm not sure the original Toyota oil did, and there is no way that a 5W-30 semi-synthetic does.

Hi, looking at the oil discussions I've also decided to supply my own 0W20 oil. Only problem is where to get it from. Any suggestions?

[timberwolf]

Toyota Parts dept.

[Ikelos]

to add my bit, all very well supplying your own oil, but would they use it, or just put it to one side, and carry on....................... :(

[kevin h]

to add my bit, all very well supplying your own oil, but would they use it, or just put it to one side, and carry on....................... :(

Always get the used can and check to see how much oil is left in it. Not sure how much the gen3 takes but if its 4L then expect to get 1 L back.

[Dave R.]

Just for sport (after all, it now seems to be a complete waste of time trying to get a sensible answer from Melissa and the official Toyota "Toyota Everything You Wanted to Know" blog :ffs: ) I've asked yet again what the official Toyota line is about oil.

The full response (dating back to October 2009) was “…I just spoke to the technical specialist...

0W-20 is the type of oil used during the manufacturing process, and is, I am told, the recommended oil for third-generation Prius (as stated in the manual). The reason for the change is that, in comparison to 5W-30 and 10W-30, it provides better engine ’startability’ in cold weather, which in turn improves engine performance, fuel consumption and emissions in cold weather conditions. This may prove particularly useful, and be more obvious, to you during shorter journeys, when the engine does not have a chance to reach its normal operating temperature. Viscosity wasn’t mentioned, Pete, but you may well be correct.

All that said, the recommendation of 0W-20 does not mean that using 5W-30 or 10W-30 will cause long-term damage to your engine.”

So we have confirmation that the recommended oil for the Prius is 0w20. Now I'd like to know why dealers aren't using it!

As this question has been open since last October, I can't see it being answered now.... but we can ask!

(just like the "we've not worked out how to update maps on the T-Spirit Sat Nav, or update the Gracenote database on the HDD stereo")