Ts Versus All Hot Hatches

February 16, 2004

i think that the cts should b compared to cars that cost the same much(or not much more). here in aus it costs 30000 on road. dunno how much the cts costs on road, but i think its like 37000 so i expect it to be quiker.

plus i dont care if the car is slower cos i kno that i can beat at least 80% of ctr owners around the track or on street racing neways B) , so not only does that take the shame off the car but gives shame to the other driver with a quiker car! :P

February 16, 2004

for Knowlson,

Please do it and let me know your results!

For Assimilate

The figures come from the french site wich compares a lot of tests done and then it put the more credibile one on the site.For instance for cts:

Performances : (47 résultats retournés / Sources : Action Auto Moto, Echappement, Le Moniteur Automobile, Auto Moto & Sport, Auto Hebdo, Automobile Magazine)

Vitesse Maxi : 225 Km/h .. 7 valeurs

400m DA : 15.7 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 150 Km/h ) .. 3 valeurs

Km DA : 28.3 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 189 Km/h ) .. 7 valeurs

0 à 60 : 4 s. .. 1 valeur

0 à 80 : 5.9 s. .. 1 valeur

0 à 100 : 7.5 s. .. 4 valeurs

0 à 120 : 10.4 s. .. 1 valeur

0 à 140 : 13 s. .. 1 valeur

0 à 160 : 17.1 s. .. 1 valeur

0 à 180 : 23.9 s. .. 1 valeur

60 à 90 en 5 : 6.7 s. .. 1 valeur

60 à 90 en 6 : 8.2 s. .. 1 valeur

80 à 120 en 4 : 7.4 s. .. 1 valeur

80 à 120 en 5 : 10.1 s. .. 2 valeurs

80 à 120 en 6 : 12.2 s. .. 3 valeurs

80 à 150 en 5 : 20.4 s. .. 2 valeurs

80 à 150 en 6 : 23.9 s. .. 2 valeurs

90 à 120 en 5 : 7.2 s. .. 1 valeur

90 à 120 en 6 : 8.8 s. .. 1 valeur

400m de 40 en 5 : 18 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 119 Km/h ) .. 1 valeur

400m de 40 en 6 : 19.2 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 111 Km/h ) .. 1 valeur

400m de 50 en 4 : 15.7 s. .. 1 valeur

Km de 40 en 5 : 33.1 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 162 Km/h ) .. 1 valeur

Km de 40 en 6 : 35.2 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 154 Km/h ) .. 1 valeur

Km de 50 en 4 : 29.1 s. .. 1 valeur

www.zeperfs.freesurf.fr

February 16, 2004

also for CTR:Fiche Véhicule : Honda Civic Type R

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Caractéristiques : (ces caractéristique sont indicatives et peuvent contenir des erreurs : n'hésitez pas à nous les signaler)

Moteur : 4 cylindres en ligne 1998 cm3 16 soupapes

Boite de vitesse manuelle à 6 rapports

Transmission : Traction

Puissance Maxi : 200 ch à 7400 Trs/Min -> 100 Ch/L

Couple Maxi : 196 Nm à 5900 Trs/Min -> 98 Nm/L

Poids : 1213 Kg (le plus élevé mesuré)

Rapport Poids/Puissance : 6.07 Kg/Ch

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Performances : (96 résultats retournés / Sources : Action Auto Moto, Echappement, Le Moniteur Automobile, Sport Auto, Auto Moto & Sport, Auto Hebdo, Auto Journal, Automobile Magazine)

Vitesse Maxi : 227 Km/h .. 10 valeurs

400m DA : 15.2 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 157 Km/h ) .. 7 valeurs

Km DA : 27.5 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 196 Km/h ) .. 10 valeurs

0 à 60 : 3.7 s. .. 1 valeur

0 à 80 : 5.2 s. .. 2 valeurs

0 à 100 : 7.2 s. .. 8 valeurs

0 à 120 : 9.2 s. .. 1 valeur

0 à 140 : 12.2 s. .. 1 valeur

0 à 160 : 16.2 s. .. 3 valeurs

0 à 180 : 21.8 s. .. 2 valeurs

0 à 200 : 28.7 s. .. 2 valeurs

60 à 90 en 4 : 4.7 s. .. 1 valeur

60 à 90 en 5 : 5.8 s. .. 2 valeurs

60 à 90 en 6 : 8.2 s. .. 2 valeurs

80 à 120 en 4 : 6.8 s. .. 2 valeurs

80 à 120 en 5 : 8.9 s. .. 3 valeurs

80 à 120 en 6 : 13 s. .. 4 valeurs

80 à 150 en 5 : 14.5 s. .. 2 valeurs

80 à 150 en 6 : 22.7 s. .. 1 valeur

90 à 120 en 4 : 4.6 s. .. 1 valeur

90 à 120 en 5 : 6.1 s. .. 2 valeurs

90 à 120 en 6 : 8.1 s. .. 2 valeurs

90 à 130 en 3 : 5.5 s. .. 1 valeur

90 à 130 en 4 : 7 s. .. 1 valeur

90 à 130 en 5 : 9.7 s. .. 1 valeur

90 à 130 en 6 : 13.7 s. .. 1 valeur

100 à 140 en 4 : 7.6 s. .. 1 valeur

100 à 140 en 5 : 10.5 s. .. 1 valeur

100 à 140 en 6 : 13.6 s. .. 1 valeur

140 à 160 en 5 : 5.1 s. .. 2 valeurs

140 à 160 en 6 : 8 s. .. 1 valeur

140 à 200 en 5 : 19.9 s. .. 1 valeur

140 à 200 en 6 : 36.2 s. .. 1 valeur

400m de 40 en 4 : 15.8 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 144 Km/h ) .. 1 valeur

400m de 40 en 5 : 17.4 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 127 Km/h ) .. 2 valeurs

400m de 40 en 6 : 19.4 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 110 Km/h ) .. 1 valeur

400m de 50 en 4 : 15.1 s. .. 2 valeurs

400m de 50 en 5 : 16.5 s. .. 1 valeur

Km de 40 en 4 : 28.5 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 194 Km/h ) .. 1 valeur

Km de 40 en 5 : 31.5 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 179 Km/h ) .. 2 valeurs

Km de 40 en 6 : 35.3 s. ( Vitesse de passage : 159 Km/h ) .. 2 valeurs

Km de 50 en 4 : 27.9 s. .. 2 valeurs

Km de 50 en 5 : 30.9 s. .. 1 valeur

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Voir la fiche d'un autre véhicule

Retour à la section Perfs

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February 16, 2004

This thread has gone a bit barmy since I last viewed it, but I have to sit back in amusement to again to hear that it sound like we have a few more Corolla T-Sport critics.

What I really struggle to understand is how people can say the T-Sport is not a real “Hot Hatch” and then start saying that the likes of the Leon Cupra R, Honda Civic Type R & Audi S3’s are! The Corolla in a straight would quite happily stay clued to the bumper of the following three off the lights! And now with mine lowered I would feel very confident that also the following wouldn’t disappear on the country lanes either. I understand the car is down on Torque but in a duel this does not matter as its BHP that counts and with 192 the Toyota is hardly lacking! Catching one off guard in your blown VAG engine VW Group car is a different story! But I have taken a Golf GTI chipped to 210BHP on when I was ready and came out on top quite convincingly!

I decided not to change my CTS for a CTR just because there was not enough between then to warrant the change. If any of you think I am pulling your leg check out Type-R.org and read the tread when I asked them what to do. Most of them have driven my car and told me that I was mad to change as both cars are so evenly matched.

You Guys make up your own mind on what you want to think, but I can assure you that the Corolla in my own opinion is the most underestimated Hot Hatch money can buy!

On a parting note I’ll use a Autocar quote, Corolla T-Sport to blow away Honda`s Integra Type R with TTE supercharger. Have this fitted and say hello to 189lb of Torque and 228BHP!!! And I suppose then maybe you could call it a quick hatch warming up! :lol:

Nick :thumbsup:

February 16, 2004

Now that deserves a round of applause :yes: :yes: :yes:

February 16, 2004

Nick,

what's barmy is to compare it to coupe's etc. Comparing to other hatches is perfectly fine.

and i'm sorry but I just can't agree with what you say about the CTS sitting comfortably on the bumper of a leon cupra r or indeed the s3.

these cars will hit 60 a full second quicker than the CTS is capable of even if u take a second off the book quote for the CTS of 8seconds 0-60.

0-60 doesn't even matter though, overtaking is so much more important, midrange torque as well.

and if you're going to talk about the CTS with a TTE upgrade pack then at least include the rival cars in that 'upgrade' lark as well.

S3 and Leon Cupra R share the same 225bhp engine.

For £750 you get a stage 1 remap which takes the bhp & torque up by 45 each. e.g. the car is now 270bhp STILL NA.

if you want to go really mad then there's the stage 3 Turbo conversion at £5000 which will see you to 350bhp & 350torque.

Now I won't say it again, I LIKE the CTS, but I just can't understand the majority of CTS owners that insist it's faster than 99% of things on the road! it irritates me. :blink:

and to talk about adjusting suspension and adding turbos etc to justify the car..... (calm down). Ok i'm done, sorry for the rant I've made my point now.

I understand that the car is cheaper than the rivals like s3/cupra r etc. But it wasn't me who started comparing the CTS to other more expensive cars (micera).

sam

February 16, 2004

I think the point that most CTS owners would say is that the T Sport holds its own against the other cars. I personally don't think an S3 or Cupra R (which i don't think can be compared in the same category as a T Sport anyway), to fly off into the distance but it would be pulling away from a T Sport...

If you want compare with the likes of the Cupra R, S3's and Focus RS, I say lets wait till the Supercharger kit that Toyota will hopefully release and see what it can do then... 228BHP would put it on the same level as the others i mentioned i think.

February 16, 2004

nice little discussion gonig on here :lol:

listen lads if your going to compare models stats and specs,then please do it as stanard models,none of this "slap a supercharger or performance kit on it" nonsence.

all cars will perform differantly with upgrades or mod's.saying one car is faster as standard,but adding this and that to the other car makes it better,is a pointless arguement.it's still not as good standard as the other model. :wacko:

anyway very interesting discussion none the less

p.s. no more french stuff please,cause it's wrecking me head :lol:

February 16, 2004

Tol10 - if you're going to upgrade the CTS (probably £2,500 - £5,000 for the toyota turbo kit anyway) then surely you have to upgrade the competition to keep it all above board.... ? and as i've already stated, 270 bhp from a £750 stage1 remap is pretty good going.

srd - exactly. :thumbsup:

February 16, 2004

Sorry if you think I am been rude but your argument does not hold water. I

spend a lot of my time spear time hopping in and out of my friends CTR and

FRS most weekends. I suppose it's a bit sad really but most early Sat

mornings are spent behind the wheel before all the old dodgers and horses

come out and then after that they're all cleaned and polished. What I am trying

to get at here Sam is that I spend a lot of time in these cars company and

with that I have a good knowledge on how the T-Sport performs among it

rivals.

It is so easy to read from magazines and forums as you are always going to

get a very one sided opinion. I don’t understand were you think the T-Sport is losing out as its top end power is only about 25 BHP shy of the LCR and FRS.

At the end of the day your never going to convince me any different like you will never convince most of the other Type-R owners I know, the Corolla is a match for most standard rivals you throw at it whether you like it or not! The only Hatch that maybe be excluded for been out of the CTS`s league is the mighty Alfa 147 GTA!

Nick :thumbsup:

February 16, 2004

I'm not here to argue with you Nick, it's a debate.

I believe my arguments do hold water, and i'm suprised that you would think I don't have a clue about the CTS or how it works... I don't comment on things I don't know about m8 :)

I also spend alot of time in the company of Leon cupras and S3's, S4's, etc. Where I draw my conclusions is the test drive I had in the CTS, and it wasn't a quick 2 minute blast either.

As for saying it's a match for most other hot hatches.. i'm assuming you're going off the performance: 0-60, bhp etc....

well, if a full second or more 0-60 difference is not much to care about... (comparing the s3/lcr now to the cts) then surely .. .for example - the subaru wrx is hot on the heels of the wrx STi ? of course it isn't. These two cars are massively different (and I have been passenger in both new models).

It's the same principle with the CTS compared with the other hot hatches, it might not be lost in the dust against the other cars... but it certainly isn't leading the pack.

Also I never disputed that the CTS was that much slower than the CTR anyway, I believe the CTR is more of a drivers machine, again, being passenger in one of these I think i'm entitled to tell it how it is!

regards to the extra 25bhp the lcr/s3 have over the cts.... it's alot considering the way the power is distributed in both machines... and it's actually more like 35bhp difference if the cts has 190bhp standard.

in the german cars the power is right there when u want it, in the CTS .. it's not there when u want it, there's basically zero torque below about 4000revs and it does indeed come to life at 6200 through to 8000. but 2000 isn't enough to play with IMHO.

The car is good fun, well, the 2zzge engine is a tremendous piece of engineering for what it is, why they didn't put it in the new mr2 i'll never know!

I'm not trying to change your opinion about the CTS Nick i'm just telling it like it is from my experiences, if you don't like it then fine but i just can't stand it when everyone gets all pally with each other about how fast the CTS is! and before any more flames get sent my way I may well end up buying a CTS this summer if things go well !

sam.

February 16, 2004

For £750 you get a stage 1 remap which takes the bhp & torque up by 45 each. e.g. the car is now 270bhp STILL NA.

SAM what are you taking, or how stupid you are but... a 1.8 vag engine putting out 270bhp NA? i think you will find the VAG 1.8 NEEDS forced induction to make even 180bhp (or it does in the golf A3 and leon TT... list goes on)

As for using a TOYOTA FACTORY OPTION SUPERCHARGER, how is this any different to getting a RS focus instead of a standard model with same size engine.

It CANT be compared to the options you have mentioned that i am sure comprimise your warranty. The toyota KIT is included in the warranty

SEE....

SEAT.CO.UK follow the leon link and click on tec spec :)

February 17, 2004

"I believe my arguments do hold water, and i'm suprised that you would think I don't have a clue about the CTS or how it works... I don't comment on things I don't know about m8 :) "
sam.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA .... Good one.

February 17, 2004

I'm not here to argue with you Nick, it's a debate.

I believe my arguments do hold water, and i'm suprised that you would think I don't have a clue about the CTS or how it works... I don't comment on things I don't know about m8

you do comment on things you know nothing about

yarisboy you know nothing about the ctr ,cts or any other hot hatchs

all you are showing everyone here is what you read in a car mags

HAVE YOU OWN A CTR AND RACE WITH A CTS ?

NO YOU HAVN'T !

HAVE YOU OWN A SEAT AND RACE WITH A CTS

NO YOU HAVN'T !

HAVE YOU OWN A S3 AND RACE WITH A CTS

NO YOU HAVN'T !

ARE YOU JEALOUS OF THE CTS OWNERS?

YES YOU ARE

once again yarisboy you're making a ***** of yourself in the corolla section

well done :thumbsup:

February 17, 2004

:D :D This is getting really funny now :D :D

February 17, 2004

T128, totally agree with u.

he just dosnt get it.

i could throw endless negative remarks about his **** car but i got better **** to do.

February 17, 2004

I have a corolla.

I dont like the Tsport.

I have driven most of the other cars that have been mentioned.

I would not waste 16k on one I would buy one of the other cars mentioned.

It was cack to drive far to soft.

It looks rubbish.

It is pants.

That ok with everyone?

February 17, 2004

Sam,

I don’t think you are listening what I am saying, I am able to make my judgement due to feedback from other people this is not just my own point of view, which I am guessing yours is.

If you are interested to hear a neutral based opinion on what some of the CTR drivers think of the CTS be my guest, I know a lot of people that have grown very fond of this very underestimated hatch.

Like I have said in pervious post on this forum it takes weeks before you start to realise what the CTS is all about, its a car that grows on you as you learn how it exploit it full potential.

I am not going to argue with you on the torque issue as I know this is were the T-Sport is lacking, catch it out of the lift zone and yes a turbo rival could easily put a few car lengths on it straight away I am not disputing that! But like I said before torque means nothing when you’re ready and have the full 192bhp ready at your disposal.

It just seems to me that you dont want to listen in what I am saying, it not just my views but other peoples as well and there not all Toyota drivers either! I just think we will have to agree to disagree on this one!

Oh and by the way VAG engine cars are not Normally Aspirated they use Turbos as a method of forced induction!!

Nick :thumbsup:

February 17, 2004

Theres only one way to sort this out....................................................................................................FIGHT! :boxing:

I always thought this a friendly forum, obviously not.

February 17, 2004

I have a corolla.
I dont like the Tsport.
I have driven most of the other cars that have been mentioned.
I would not waste 16k on one I would buy one of the other cars mentioned.
It was cack to drive far to soft.
It looks rubbish.
It is pants.
That ok with everyone?

CACK Hey!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Do you mind if I just ignore what you have just said, I speak to you when you say something sensible! :)

Nick :thumbsup:

I personally would not supercharge an E11 as I think they look shocking! :eek:

February 17, 2004

Theres only one way to sort this out....................................................................................................FIGHT!
I always thought this a friendly forum, obviously not.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

it is a friendly forum but we all like to have our say :thumbsup:

February 17, 2004

CACK Hey!!!!!!
Do you mind if I just ignore what you have just said, I speak to you when you say something sensible! :)
Nick
I personally would not supercharge an E11 as I think they look shocking!

You can ignore me all you like mate I dont really care :thumbsup:

You would not personnal supercharger an e11 but you would do it you your model :lol: :lol: I did the supercharger to make my car better as the engine was pants...... I think you where saying earlier that same thing......... <_<

As for the shocking comment oh dear have you looked at the box on wheels you are driving??? :lol: :lol:

I love my car and I dont like your model get over it :thumbsup: I will post my view everytime someone posts on here saying that the CTS is great it's not.

It is just my view.

February 17, 2004

Theres only one way to sort this out....................................................................................................FIGHT!
I always thought this a friendly forum, obviously not.
it is a friendly forum but we all like to have our say

i could throw endless negative remarks about his **** car but i got better **** to do.

As I see ^ I'm sure he thinks his car isn't ****

February 17, 2004

I own a T-Sport

I can say that it is quicker that the bmw 325,ctr,golfv5,golf1.8turbo,

But that was down to driver skil (not that im good they were pants!!!!)

Honestly the car is too soft even when lowered (thats why the tyres wear so much on the outside edge) it does lack tourque so

you have to keep it revvin. Its like riding a 2 stroke motorbike keeping it in the power.

Plus points I think that its the most comfy of the hot hatches I tried but not the best for handling or speed.As Ive said before the ctr was a better race car but not as comfy as the cts the build quaility felt better in the Toyota. Its said you pay your money and make your choice but if the ctr interior was better built the id b on the ctr forum.

At least im honest!!!!!

February 17, 2004

CACK Hey!!!!!!
Do you mind if I just ignore what you have just said, I speak to you when you say something sensible! :)
Nick
I personally would not supercharge an E11 as I think they look shocking!
You can ignore me all you like mate I dont really care
You would not personnal supercharger an e11 but you would do it you your model I did the supercharger to make my car better as the engine was pants...... I think you where saying earlier that same thing......... <_<
As for the shocking comment oh dear have you looked at the box on wheels you are driving???
I love my car and I dont like your model get over it I will post my view everytime someone posts on here saying that the CTS is great it's not.
It is just my view.

Hey Knowlson, i like your car too mate, saw it at that Southern mini meet last yuear (i'm sure it was you) and it looked fine, I too prefer your shape, thats why i'm looking into importing a Matrix cos I think the new Corolla is ugly. Just an opinion everyone, but you can rip my head off if you like, i'll just laugh :lol:

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