Egr Valve Saga

[t-spiritpete]

Hi to all, having recently had a good look at the D4D EGR valve I have come to the conclusion that the main reason for the carbon build up is that the casting is so rough inside. If the internals were smooth or polished the dirty gas would pass through rather than clinging on to the surface which in turn then builds up on the valve and seating. Anyone who has tried to clean out the egr valve will know how hard it is to remove the build up in the casting. I would just like your comments either way on my views on this problem.

Regards Pete.

[igormus]

Hi to all, having recently had a good look at the D4D EGR valve I have come to the conclusion that the main reason for the carbon build up is that the casting is so rough inside. If the internals were smooth or polished the dirty gas would pass through rather than clinging on to the surface which in turn then builds up on the valve and seating. Anyone who has tried to clean out the egr valve will know how hard it is to remove the build up in the casting. I would just like your comments either way on my views on this problem.

Regards Pete.

hi Pete

yes each EGR valve has been normally foundred without polishing of the gas flow sides and all is based on regulary servicing. It's deemed you do perform both EGR cleaning and injectors testing. Cheers/Igor

[wobbler]

Hi all,

I'm just about to have my EGR valve cleaned out by a local garage but before I do I just wanted to check the following.

I only experience intermittant acceleration once the car is warm, is the EGR the cause or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[Beagh1958]

To t-spiritpete.

Had the head of a 1CD-FTV for some work last year (made posting at the time) we have a fellow through work who does vapour blasting. He gave the EGR valve and inlet manifold a series cleaning with a very fine medium, the two units looked like they had been ported & polished when finished with. Only downside is you have to make sure every single piece of cleaning medium ( aluminium beads) are removed afterwoods. You are spot on, all the inner castings are very rough.

Regards, Beagh.

PS: See PM.

[cabcurtains]

Hi all,

I'm just about to have my EGR valve cleaned out by a local garage but before I do I just wanted to check the following.

I only experience intermittant acceleration once the car is warm, is the EGR the cause or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thats the cheapest part to start with, injectors is another (much more expensive) potential issue, how many miles have you done?

[datsun100a]

Can someone point out the location of this valve so I can check it. I don't have a good local toyota garage so look after the car myself.

[wobbler]

Hi all,

I'm just about to have my EGR valve cleaned out by a local garage but before I do I just wanted to check the following.

I only experience intermittant acceleration once the car is warm, is the EGR the cause or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thats the cheapest part to start with, injectors is another (much more expensive) potential issue, how many miles have you done?

Thanks for the reply cabcurtains, Its done over 110,000 as its an ex company car (I bought it from my employer 2 years ago), I only do 14 miles a day mainly stuck in traffic so thats why I thought the valve may have become blocked but I don't understand why its fine until the engine has warmed up.

I also read up that it may be the injectors and I'm praying that it isn't that!

Am I right in saying if I disconnect the sensor to the EGR and the issue disappears, I am on the right track?

Many thanks.

[wobbler]

Can someone point out the location of this valve so I can check it. I don't have a good local toyota garage so look after the car myself.

Here you go.

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97232

[tubaman]

What a superb link in the previous post - `Link of he Year`

[cabcurtains]

Hi all,

I'm just about to have my EGR valve cleaned out by a local garage but before I do I just wanted to check the following.

I only experience intermittant acceleration once the car is warm, is the EGR the cause or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thats the cheapest part to start with, injectors is another (much more expensive) potential issue, how many miles have you done?

Thanks for the reply cabcurtains, Its done over 110,000 as its an ex company car (I bought it from my employer 2 years ago), I only do 14 miles a day mainly stuck in traffic so thats why I thought the valve may have become blocked but I don't understand why its fine until the engine has warmed up.

I also read up that it may be the injectors and I'm praying that it isn't that!

Am I right in saying if I disconnect the sensor to the EGR and the issue disappears, I am on the right track?

Many thanks.

EGR Symptoms in my experience are, cold start issues, MPG drop, struggling to rev past 3000 RPM.

Is there an EGR sensor? If the valve is blocked its caked in soot so the car is being suffocated thats why you get the above problems.

Depends how you would define intermittant acceleration!

[datsun100a]

cheers for that excellent link :D

[enyajtrebor]

My T180 has had a noticeable drop in mpg of late, initially put it down to the cold weather but had a look at the EGR valve this morning -caked with soot just like the one in the link. Pig to clean out, considerably easier using the inlet cleaner to soften the crud

Short road test all seems fine and car feels much more repsonsive. Will fill up and report back on any mpg increase

Regards

Enyajtrebor

[delboy85]

My T180 has had a noticeable drop in mpg of late, initially put it down to the cold weather but had a look at the EGR valve this morning -caked with soot just like the one in the link. Pig to clean out, considerably easier using the inlet cleaner to soften the crud

Short road test all seems fine and car feels much more repsonsive. Will fill up and report back on any mpg increase

Regards

Enyajtrebor

How many miles had your car done before you had the problem?

Mine had done 20,000 but I had not noticed any drop in mpg. I had been doing 500 miles a week mainly on motorways and getting 47mpg but since July I have been retired and so just driving around town this has crept down to 45mpg.

[enyajtrebor]

My T180 has had a noticeable drop in mpg of late, initially put it down to the cold weather but had a look at the EGR valve this morning -caked with soot just like the one in the link. Pig to clean out, considerably easier using the inlet cleaner to soften the crud

Short road test all seems fine and car feels much more repsonsive. Will fill up and report back on any mpg increase

Regards

Enyajtrebor

How many miles had your car done before you had the problem?

Mine had done 20,000 but I had not noticed any drop in mpg. I had been doing 500 miles a week mainly on motorways and getting 47mpg but since July I have been retired and so just driving around town this has crept down to 45mpg.

Delboy 85

Current mileage is just below 36K. Use is a mix of motorway and normal roads. Fuel consumption had always averaged around the 46 -47 mpg but dropped to a low as 41 in the cold weather and 43 otherwise. Hopefully the cleaning has done the trick. Whilst I don't thrash it I don't dawdle either !!

Enyajtrebor

[Felix_DCAT]

My T180 has had a noticeable drop in mpg of late, initially put it down to the cold weather but had a look at the EGR valve this morning -caked with soot just like the one in the link. Pig to clean out, considerably easier using the inlet cleaner to soften the crud

Short road test all seems fine and car feels much more repsonsive. Will fill up and report back on any mpg increase

Regards

Enyajtrebor

How many miles had your car done before you had the problem?

Mine had done 20,000 but I had not noticed any drop in mpg. I had been doing 500 miles a week mainly on motorways and getting 47mpg but since July I have been retired and so just driving around town this has crept down to 45mpg.

Delboy 85

Current mileage is just below 36K. Use is a mix of motorway and normal roads. Fuel consumption had always averaged around the 46 -47 mpg but dropped to a low as 41 in the cold weather and 43 otherwise. Hopefully the cleaning has done the trick. Whilst I don't thrash it I don't dawdle either !!

Enyajtrebor

What are the main symptoms of EGR problems apart from bad fuel consumption? Is engine cold idle at 1100 rpm normal? I have very poor consumption - 33 mpg cruising on Autobahn at 70 mph.

Thanks!

[cabcurtains]

My T180 has had a noticeable drop in mpg of late, initially put it down to the cold weather but had a look at the EGR valve this morning -caked with soot just like the one in the link. Pig to clean out, considerably easier using the inlet cleaner to soften the crud

Short road test all seems fine and car feels much more repsonsive. Will fill up and report back on any mpg increase

Regards

Enyajtrebor

How many miles had your car done before you had the problem?

Mine had done 20,000 but I had not noticed any drop in mpg. I had been doing 500 miles a week mainly on motorways and getting 47mpg but since July I have been retired and so just driving around town this has crept down to 45mpg.

Delboy 85

Current mileage is just below 36K. Use is a mix of motorway and normal roads. Fuel consumption had always averaged around the 46 -47 mpg but dropped to a low as 41 in the cold weather and 43 otherwise. Hopefully the cleaning has done the trick. Whilst I don't thrash it I don't dawdle either !!

Enyajtrebor

What are the main symptoms of EGR problems apart from bad fuel consumption? Is engine cold idle at 1100 rpm normal? I have very poor consumption - 33 mpg cruising on Autobahn at 70 mph.

Thanks!

EGR Symptoms in my experience are, cold start issues, MPG drop, struggling to rev past 3000 RPM, car feels like the revs are being suffocated.

High idle isn't an issue if the weather is cold, IIRC modern cars have some strange settings regarding cooling, if the engine is allowed get warm on very cold air the emissions get high so the cooling system keeps the engine cool burning more fuel.

[Felix_DCAT]

My T180 has had a noticeable drop in mpg of late, initially put it down to the cold weather but had a look at the EGR valve this morning -caked with soot just like the one in the link. Pig to clean out, considerably easier using the inlet cleaner to soften the crud

Short road test all seems fine and car feels much more repsonsive. Will fill up and report back on any mpg increase

Regards

Enyajtrebor

How many miles had your car done before you had the problem?

Mine had done 20,000 but I had not noticed any drop in mpg. I had been doing 500 miles a week mainly on motorways and getting 47mpg but since July I have been retired and so just driving around town this has crept down to 45mpg.

Delboy 85

Current mileage is just below 36K. Use is a mix of motorway and normal roads. Fuel consumption had always averaged around the 46 -47 mpg but dropped to a low as 41 in the cold weather and 43 otherwise. Hopefully the cleaning has done the trick. Whilst I don't thrash it I don't dawdle either !!

Enyajtrebor

What are the main symptoms of EGR problems apart from bad fuel consumption? Is engine cold idle at 1100 rpm normal? I have very poor consumption - 33 mpg cruising on Autobahn at 70 mph.

Thanks!

EGR Symptoms in my experience are, cold start issues, MPG drop, struggling to rev past 3000 RPM, car feels like the revs are being suffocated.

High idle isn't an issue if the weather is cold, IIRC modern cars have some strange settings regarding cooling, if the engine is allowed get warm on very cold air the emissions get high so the cooling system keeps the engine cool burning more fuel.

Thanks Cabcurtains.

Based on what I have read on this site and elsewhere I think the problem goes as follows: EGR gets blocked (probably due to too much start stop short journeys) -> leads to higher temp combustion -> more soot formation -> DPNR gets saturated -> sensors detect saturation -> regeneration process initiated (using exhaust port injector). The exhaust port injection of diesel is used to raise the temp of the DPNR catalyst to regen it - this is so called rich operation - but because EGR is not working properly soot (PM) is constantly being created and deposited in the lean exhaust port operation cycles. I think this explains why you see the oscillating fuel consumption cruising on the flat at constant speed in cruise control mode - flipping between lean and rich exhaust port injector modes. Sometimes, if EGR is really badly blocked, smoke is emitted from exhaust.

Why does it settle down after about an hour of driving though? It may be because the regen cycles actually work and do reduce the particles in the DPNR below saturation levels after a while. When you start the car again the next day from cold, because the DPNR is cold initially, more condensation of soot is possible and it quickly becomes saturated again and so the cycle repeats.

Of course I could be wrong. Just need to figure out how to say 'remove and clean the EGR' in German! Not doing it myself - would freeze to death.

Cheers,

Felix

[t-spiritpete]

My T180 has had a noticeable drop in mpg of late, initially put it down to the cold weather but had a look at the EGR valve this morning -caked with soot just like the one in the link. Pig to clean out, considerably easier using the inlet cleaner to soften the crud

Short road test all seems fine and car feels much more repsonsive. Will fill up and report back on any mpg increase

Regards

Enyajtrebor

How many miles had your car done before you had the problem?

Mine had done 20,000 but I had not noticed any drop in mpg. I had been doing 500 miles a week mainly on motorways and getting 47mpg but since July I have been retired and so just driving around town this has crept down to 45mpg.

Delboy 85

Current mileage is just below 36K. Use is a mix of motorway and normal roads. Fuel consumption had always averaged around the 46 -47 mpg but dropped to a low as 41 in the cold weather and 43 otherwise. Hopefully the cleaning has done the trick. Whilst I don't thrash it I don't dawdle either !!

Enyajtrebor

What are the main symptoms of EGR problems apart from bad fuel consumption? Is engine cold idle at 1100 rpm normal? I have very poor consumption - 33 mpg cruising on Autobahn at 70 mph.

Thanks!

EGR Symptoms in my experience are, cold start issues, MPG drop, struggling to rev past 3000 RPM, car feels like the revs are being suffocated.

High idle isn't an issue if the weather is cold, IIRC modern cars have some strange settings regarding cooling, if the engine is allowed get warm on very cold air the emissions get high so the cooling system keeps the engine cool burning more fuel.

Thanks Cabcurtains.

Based on what I have read on this site and elsewhere I think the problem goes as follows: EGR gets blocked (probably due to too much start stop short journeys) -> leads to higher temp combustion -> more soot formation -> DPNR gets saturated -> sensors detect saturation -> regeneration process initiated (using exhaust port injector). The exhaust port injection of diesel is used to raise the temp of the DPNR catalyst to regen it - this is so called rich operation - but because EGR is not working properly soot (PM) is constantly being created and deposited in the lean exhaust port operation cycles. I think this explains why you see the oscillating fuel consumption cruising on the flat at constant speed in cruise control mode - flipping between lean and rich exhaust port injector modes. Sometimes, if EGR is really badly blocked, smoke is emitted from exhaust.

Why does it settle down after about an hour of driving though? It may be because the regen cycles actually work and do reduce the particles in the DPNR below saturation levels after a while. When you start the car again the next day from cold, because the DPNR is cold initially, more condensation of soot is possible and it quickly becomes saturated again and so the cycle repeats.

Of course I could be wrong. Just need to figure out how to say 'remove and clean the EGR' in German! Not doing it myself - would freeze to death.

Cheers,

Felix

Hello Felixdcat, (I love that name), here is you German for "remove and clean the EGR" .... "entfernen Sie und reinigen Sie den EGR" ..... no problem now mate, ;)

Best regards Pete.

[Felix_DCAT]

My T180 has had a noticeable drop in mpg of late, initially put it down to the cold weather but had a look at the EGR valve this morning -caked with soot just like the one in the link. Pig to clean out, considerably easier using the inlet cleaner to soften the crud

Short road test all seems fine and car feels much more repsonsive. Will fill up and report back on any mpg increase

Regards

Enyajtrebor

How many miles had your car done before you had the problem?

Mine had done 20,000 but I had not noticed any drop in mpg. I had been doing 500 miles a week mainly on motorways and getting 47mpg but since July I have been retired and so just driving around town this has crept down to 45mpg.

Delboy 85

Current mileage is just below 36K. Use is a mix of motorway and normal roads. Fuel consumption had always averaged around the 46 -47 mpg but dropped to a low as 41 in the cold weather and 43 otherwise. Hopefully the cleaning has done the trick. Whilst I don't thrash it I don't dawdle either !!

Enyajtrebor

What are the main symptoms of EGR problems apart from bad fuel consumption? Is engine cold idle at 1100 rpm normal? I have very poor consumption - 33 mpg cruising on Autobahn at 70 mph.

Thanks!

EGR Symptoms in my experience are, cold start issues, MPG drop, struggling to rev past 3000 RPM, car feels like the revs are being suffocated.

High idle isn't an issue if the weather is cold, IIRC modern cars have some strange settings regarding cooling, if the engine is allowed get warm on very cold air the emissions get high so the cooling system keeps the engine cool burning more fuel.

Thanks Cabcurtains.

Based on what I have read on this site and elsewhere I think the problem goes as follows: EGR gets blocked (probably due to too much start stop short journeys) -> leads to higher temp combustion -> more soot formation -> DPNR gets saturated -> sensors detect saturation -> regeneration process initiated (using exhaust port injector). The exhaust port injection of diesel is used to raise the temp of the DPNR catalyst to regen it - this is so called rich operation - but because EGR is not working properly soot (PM) is constantly being created and deposited in the lean exhaust port operation cycles. I think this explains why you see the oscillating fuel consumption cruising on the flat at constant speed in cruise control mode - flipping between lean and rich exhaust port injector modes. Sometimes, if EGR is really badly blocked, smoke is emitted from exhaust.

Why does it settle down after about an hour of driving though? It may be because the regen cycles actually work and do reduce the particles in the DPNR below saturation levels after a while. When you start the car again the next day from cold, because the DPNR is cold initially, more condensation of soot is possible and it quickly becomes saturated again and so the cycle repeats.

Of course I could be wrong. Just need to figure out how to say 'remove and clean the EGR' in German! Not doing it myself - would freeze to death.

Cheers,

Felix

Hello Felixdcat, (I love that name), here is you German for "remove and clean the EGR" .... "entfernen Sie und reinigen Sie den EGR" ..... no problem now mate, ;)

Best regards Pete.

Danke Pete!

Felix

[enyajtrebor]

My T180 has had a noticeable drop in mpg of late, initially put it down to the cold weather but had a look at the EGR valve this morning -caked with soot just like the one in the link. Pig to clean out, considerably easier using the inlet cleaner to soften the crud

Short road test all seems fine and car feels much more repsonsive. Will fill up and report back on any mpg increase

Regards

Enyajtrebor

How many miles had your car done before you had the problem?

Mine had done 20,000 but I had not noticed any drop in mpg. I had been doing 500 miles a week mainly on motorways and getting 47mpg but since July I have been retired and so just driving around town this has crept down to 45mpg.

Delboy 85

Current mileage is just below 36K. Use is a mix of motorway and normal roads. Fuel consumption had always averaged around the 46 -47 mpg but dropped to a low as 41 in the cold weather and 43 otherwise. Hopefully the cleaning has done the trick. Whilst I don't thrash it I don't dawdle either !!

Enyajtrebor

Just an update on the MPG since the EGR valve clean out - just about back to normal, one tank full at 45mpg and another just under 47mpg. As we all know the cold weather isn't helping the mpg

Regards

Enyjatrebor

[tommy.h]

Hi All

took my car into local dealers RRG STOCKPORT on saturday they told me there is a recall re:-egr valve.having it sorted next week.

there is a remap because of a fifth injector supplying to much fuel on aceleration.

this is to be cut.

new member so don't know if this has been covered before. trying to help.

tom

[JohnYossarian]

Hi All

took my car into local dealers RRG STOCKPORT on saturday they told me there is a recall re:-egr valve.having it sorted next week.

there is a remap because of a fifth injector supplying to much fuel on aceleration.

this is to be cut.

new member so don't know if this has been covered before. trying to help.

tom

Hi Tom,

I cannot find anything mentioning the EGR valve. I did search by Google but the only recall that is widely talked about is the accelerater pedal and now the Prius issue.

Can you post a link to the EGR story?

Cheers,

Jordan

PS What reg is your car? Mine is the same model as yours but I would be interested if it were similar reg to mine.

[tommy.h]

Hi All

took my car into local dealers RRG STOCKPORT on saturday they told me there is a recall re:-egr valve.having it sorted next week.

there is a remap because of a fifth injector supplying to much fuel on aceleration.

Hi Jordan

there is no link this is what they told me at RRG TOYOTA in STOCKPORT car was first registered in november 2006

tom

this is to be cut.

new member so don't know if this has been covered before. trying to help.

tom

Hi Tom,

I cannot find anything mentioning the EGR valve. I did search by Google but the only recall that is widely talked about is the accelerater pedal and now the Prius issue.

Can you post a link to the EGR story?

Cheers,

Jordan

PS What reg is your car? Mine is the same model as yours but I would be interested if it were similar reg to mine.

[tommy.h]

Hi All

took my car into local dealers RRG STOCKPORT on saturday they told me there is a recall re:-egr valve.having it sorted next week.

there is a remap because of a fifth injector supplying to much fuel on aceleration.

Hi Jordan

there is no link this is what they told me at RRG TOYOTA in STOCKPORT car was first registered in november 2006

tom

this is to be cut.

new member so don't know if this has been covered before. trying to help.

tom

Hi Tom,

I cannot find anything mentioning the EGR valve. I did search by Google but the only recall that is widely talked about is the accelerater pedal and now the Prius issue.

Can you post a link to the EGR story?

Cheers,

Jordan

PS What reg is your car? Mine is the same model as yours but I would be interested if it were similar reg to mine.

[tommy.h]

Hi Jordan

sorry not used to the way you post on this site yet.

there is no link . i had got intouch with RRG STOCKPORT on an unrelated issue & they told me that there was a recall for reprogramming fifth injector due to sooting up

my car was first registered in november 2006 (ye56)

hope this helps

Tom