Steering Issue

[jm26]

Anybody??

[Madasafish]

Frankly I cannot believe you are serious. You come on here telling us you have a problem, and then when we suggest remedies you say "I can't see anything wrong. I don't think it's the wheel balance etc...".

From what you say it sounds as if you bought the car recently. Is that true? If so, tell the seller to fix it. You have a six month warranty. Use it. Get the seller to fix it.

You cannot see steering or alignment issues by eye. Modern checks require laser equipment. And you - who clearly have no idea- inspect the suspension and tell us it's OK.. I cannot believe you are serious. You expect us now to believe you know the suspension is OK because it looks ok to you?

I can not longer treat this as a serious enquiry but as a wind up.

[jm26]

Frankly I cannot believe you are serious. You come on here telling us you have a problem, and then when we suggest remedies you say "I can't see anything wrong. I don't think it's the wheel balance etc...".

From what you say it sounds as if you bought the car recently. Is that true? If so, tell the seller to fix it. You have a six month warranty. Use it. Get the seller to fix it.

You cannot see steering or alignment issues by eye. Modern checks require laser equipment. And you - who clearly have no idea- inspect the suspension and tell us it's OK.. I cannot believe you are serious. You expect us now to believe you know the suspension is OK because it looks ok to you?

I can not longer treat this as a serious enquiry but as a wind up.

Well I got a 1 month warranty with my car and that ended a week or so ago. I know I am also protected by sales of goods act. The problem has been there from day one so it should be sorted if I go back to him again. The problem is the dealer is a half hour drive away and it's difficult to get the car to him and get myself home whilst working full time (as he closes at 4pm). I keep having to take days off holiday and leave the car with him for 4 days at a time and get lifts back home off people which must be quite annoying. It's already been back to the garage twice for this problem and I don't have any more days holiday to waste. If it's something I can sort out myself I would rather do that.

I had a quick check of the supension but never said it was ok?? One mechanic did, the other didn't. Your mistake.

All I am looking for is suggestions from experienced people who know what they are talking about and I am replying to them with questions of my own. What is wrong with that? We all have to learn..

From the suggestions you have given me so far it is also quite clear you do not know what you are talking about either. For example suggesting tracking lol. How can it be !Removed! tracking when it moves left and right?

[Vitz_man]

Bent steering rack? Broken steering collum?

Not sure what to suggest to be brutally honest. My knowledge is vastly inferior to some of the other guys who've been posting so I would just be guessing if I continued. If all your options are exhausted then consumer law allows you to reject the car as you couldn't possibly have predicted there being such a problem. You could use this as leverage and threaten the garage with trading standards if they don't supply you with a courtesy car whilst they actually find and fix the problem.

Good luck.

[stantheman1]

I agree with Madasafish, you try to ridicule the replies from people who are genuinely trying to help you which is offensive.

I also give up!!

[Raeman]

Well i am at a total loss, i suggested having your car 4 wheel aligned, taking it back to dealers, taking legal action but to no avail.

If you ask questions on a forum and people take the time and effort to respond, the least you can do is put some of the theories to rights!

Ok, last time this....

1. Has the car had new tyres and they have not been balanced or even fitted the right way?

2. Has the car had accident damage on the front?

3. Has the tracking been done?

4. Have you had it 4 wheel aliagned?

5. Are the front wheels buckled or kinked?

6. Is there any swells or lumps on the tyre walls?

7. Does it pulls to one side when braking, if so there IS definately a braking problem with it!

8. Does the steering wheel centre itself when coming on the gas out of a corner?

9. Is there any up/down, left/right play in the steering wheel when stationary?

10. Why don't you take the car back and get a refund?

[alan589]

i took my car in for the pedal recall today. When i collected my car they advised that they had done the "steering recall too"!!

I was unaware of a steering issue but my steeing had felt just a little odd over the past couple of months. When driving on nominally straight piece of road seemed to wander, just a little, requiring slighty more steering corrections than would be normal.

As it was slight I assumed wear & tear or tracking issues. Maybe yours needs the "steering recall" fix too?

I was in a hurry but I did ask the girl on reception what this was and she replied that it was " worn bushes or washers on the steering column".

[jm26]

i took my car in for the pedal recall today. When i collected my car they advised that they had done the "steering recall too"!!

I was unaware of a steering issue but my steeing had felt just a little odd over the past couple of months. When driving on nominally straight piece of road seemed to wander, just a little, requiring slighty more steering corrections than would be normal.

As it was slight I assumed wear & tear or tracking issues. Maybe yours needs the "steering recall" fix too?

I was in a hurry but I did ask the girl on reception what this was and she replied that it was " worn bushes or washers on the steering column".

Mine is a 2002 model, which one of your cars was this recall for? Is it just 2005 onwards like the pdeal rcalls?

[alan589]

i took my car in for the pedal recall today. When i collected my car they advised that they had done the "steering recall too"!!

I was unaware of a steering issue but my steeing had felt just a little odd over the past couple of months. When driving on nominally straight piece of road seemed to wander, just a little, requiring slighty more steering corrections than would be normal.

As it was slight I assumed wear & tear or tracking issues. Maybe yours needs the "steering recall" fix too?

I was in a hurry but I did ask the girl on reception what this was and she replied that it was " worn bushes or washers on the steering column".

Mine is a 2002 model, which one of your cars was this recall for? Is it just 2005 onwards like the pdeal rcalls?

2006.

[jm26]

I agree with Madasafish, you try to ridicule the replies from people who are genuinely trying to help you which is offensive.

I also give up!!

I've not ridiculed any replies. I drive the car and know what it feels like etc so i know whether some of the suggestions

I don't have the money to start getting new tyres, tracking, balancing etc to sort this problem out.

[jm26]

Well i am at a total loss, i suggested having your car 4 wheel aligned, taking it back to dealers, taking legal action but to no avail.

If you ask questions on a forum and people take the time and effort to respond, the least you can do is put some of the theories to rights!

Ok, last time this....

1. Has the car had new tyres and they have not been balanced or even fitted the right way? - All tyres look fairly new. Loads of use left in them. They have previously been balanced, but not sure if they are now. Not getting any vibratons from wheels though at motorway speeds. Will get this done when tracking is done.

2. Has the car had accident damage on the front? - No evidence of...

3. Has the tracking been done? - Not yet, but 2 mechanics have said it doesn't need doing.

4. Have you had it 4 wheel aliagned? As above..

5. Are the front wheels buckled or kinked? - How can you tell? They look round enough to me ;) I can't see anything wrong with them.

6. Is there any swells or lumps on the tyre walls? - No none at all.

7. Does it pulls to one side when braking, if so there IS definately a braking problem with it! - No I don't think so. The steering wheel does wind around when going very slowly and when coming to a stop but it would't pull when braking at a higher speed. Also if going slow it will still wind around even though i am not on the brakes. I felt both brake discs after a fairly long run and both were equal temperature and not that hot.

8. Does the steering wheel centre itself when coming on the gas out of a corner? Yes.

9. Is there any up/down, left/right play in the steering wheel when stationary? No

10. Why don't you take the car back and get a refund? - Honestly, its more hassle than its worth, for me anyway. It doesn't seem like a massive problem with the car, it's very much driveable, just very annoying. I've had it back at the dealers twice to have this issue sorted. First time a frozen caliper pin was sorted, second the brake hoses. The dealer claims he can do no more as the mechanic thinks it's fine. There is only so much time and energy you can throw at something before it becomes pointless

I've ordered 2 new lower suspension arms and 2 new anti roll bar drop links, so when these arrive i'll replace them. If this doesn't sort it out then I probably will go bck to the dealer and tell him to keep replacing parts until the problem goes away since the mechanic can't find anythign wrong and can't even see a problem. He said the bumpy ride and moving steering wheel was down to non standard alloys which is bull*****...

[Raeman]

The alloys on your car ARE standard! The ride is quite hard on the SR though. They have stiffer springs than standard and the 15" wheels with low-profile tyres do sometimes make the car a bit choppy.

[jm26]

The alloys on your car ARE standard! The ride is quite hard on the SR though. They have stiffer springs than standard and the 15" wheels with low-profile tyres do sometimes make the car a bit choppy.

Cheers for all the info you have given me so far Raeman.

Do your original alloys have spacers when fitting them? One of the other members asked me to check, but none of my wheels had them. Just wandered if they were supposed to originally?

[jm26]

Probably a very easy answer to this....

Where is the engine lower cover? I'm having a good look at the suspension arms and track rod ends on Friday but my haynes manual says to 'remove roadwheel and engine lower cover' to get access to balljoints. There are no pictures referencing it so i'm unsure?

Thanks in advance.

[Raeman]

Jim, my car does'nt have wheel spacers, and to the best of my knowledge they were not fitted as standard to our SR models.

As for the engine lower cover, i can't help you with that. I have never needed to remove or fiddle about with it on mine.

[alfiejts]

Toyota won't fit wheel spacers on any car - as they significantly alter the wheel hub loading and steering geometry from that which they designed in. I suspect they would significantly change the handling characteristics and they are used by people who want their cars to look good & stylish at the expense of the car's handling..

They are used by people who want to fit wider wheels than the wheelarches can take without rubbing and they work by pushing the wheels further "outwards" than the standard wheel fittings. (WHich is why they change the steering geometry).

Unless you want to fit "silly" sized wheels, you don't need them. Our Yaris has 6.5" wide 16" alloys wheels with 205/50 tyres. That's a standard Toyota fitting and doesn't need any spacers to avoid catching the wheelarch - so lord only knows what sized wheels you'd have to fit to catch the wheelarch and need spacers... Certainly nothing "sensible".

The under-engine cover is a black plastic strip about four inches wide that connects to the back of the bottom of the bumper and just covers off some of the gap between the bottom of the bumper and the front of the engine.

You can still see all the suspension with it fitted - but you'd need to remove it to change the oil filter and maybe to get at some of the steering or suspension components to have room to change them....

[gar]

Any front wheel drive car can feel a bit vague and wander about if you accelerate hard. I guess you may be doing this, to try the car out, on country roads, renowned for crap surfaces too...

Also. the Yaris needs careful steering set up and tyre fitting as it will get a bit vague otherwise.... Stick to standard fitment tyres and get TOYOTA to do the tracking, not a rubbish back street establishment.. Lost count of the stories, inc personal experience, of these people ruining the tracking, only to have to pay in the end to go to the people who know the car, and have the right equipment, tools and dimensions for your car.

Some of the Yaris' had a ZERO setting (or similar) for the steering rack, too.

Bite the bullet, get it done properly and you WILL notice the difference. The only thing I would ignore from Toyota is that they ALWAYS tell you the front drop-link bushes are worn.... They do wear but still drive ok, until you know they are really worn as they start to make noises! The rubber was/is very prone to cracking.

As for the rear bushes, etc, although there may well be no problems here, note that, as the front of the car steers, it drags the rear round the curve... if there IS a fault, the rear can and will affect the steering/handling of the car! (Think of a shopping trolly with a dodgy wheel, add shopping and it worsens... Now add a ton of car and occupants)!

Toyota have also designed into the car, a small but not insignificant amount of rear wheel steering into the Yaris so don't think rear set-ups are not too important. (You can use this to tell your mates that your car has 4 wheel steering)!

[jm26]

Toyota won't fit wheel spacers on any car - as they significantly alter the wheel hub loading and steering geometry from that which they designed in. I suspect they would significantly change the handling characteristics and they are used by people who want their cars to look good & stylish at the expense of the car's handling..

They are used by people who want to fit wider wheels than the wheelarches can take without rubbing and they work by pushing the wheels further "outwards" than the standard wheel fittings. (WHich is why they change the steering geometry).

Unless you want to fit "silly" sized wheels, you don't need them. Our Yaris has 6.5" wide 16" alloys wheels with 205/50 tyres. That's a standard Toyota fitting and doesn't need any spacers to avoid catching the wheelarch - so lord only knows what sized wheels you'd have to fit to catch the wheelarch and need spacers... Certainly nothing "sensible".

The under-engine cover is a black plastic strip about four inches wide that connects to the back of the bottom of the bumper and just covers off some of the gap between the bottom of the bumper and the front of the engine.

You can still see all the suspension with it fitted - but you'd need to remove it to change the oil filter and maybe to get at some of the steering or suspension components to have room to change them....

Cheers for that ;)

[jm26]

Hi,

I had a go at replacing the suspension arms today, was doing it for 4 hours and couldn't even get one off lol. I managed to get the 3 bolts off but couldn't get the ball joint free. I even boght a splitter for the job but it wouldn't fit properly.

Also managed to bust the rubber part of the ball joint containing all of the grease. So will have to get it sorted pretty soon.

There was no play in the wheels left to right or up and down when steering was locked. When not locked (key in) the wheels could be moved from all the way left to all the way right which would move the steering wheel all the way around. I assume this is normal? Or shoudn't they turn as easily as this?

Cheers

[Raeman]

If the car is jacked up, you should be able to turn the front wheels left to right no problem even without the engine (P/S) running.

Doing this also turns the steering wheel in the car.....If it didn't, you would have a serious problem!

Whilst you was fiddling near the wheels, did you do a check on the front suspension for a broken spring or any other abnormalities?

[Red Yaris 54]

Hi,

I had a go at replacing the suspension arms today, was doing it for 4 hours and couldn't even get one off lol. I managed to get the 3 bolts off but couldn't get the ball joint free. I even boght a splitter for the job but it wouldn't fit properly.

Also managed to bust the rubber part of the ball joint containing all of the grease. So will have to get it sorted pretty soon.

There was no play in the wheels left to right or up and down when steering was locked. When not locked (key in) the wheels could be moved from all the way left to all the way right which would move the steering wheel all the way around. I assume this is normal? Or shoudn't they turn as easily as this?

Cheers

To be brutally frank with you....................you appear to know very little about the mechanical side of your Yaris.

I would suggest that as you have now split the ball joint rubber and have bought a splitter that is not fit for the job, that you bite the bullet and get your car into a Toyota approved service centre as soon as possible to get the ball joint changed and the problem sorted out professionally.

This may cost you quite a bit.................but you will have the comfort of knowing that the work has not been bodged and that the geometery has been set up to the correct specification using the proper equipment.

Try to obtain a quotation for the work required first.......................but get it done soon!!

If you feel that you really cannot afford to get the work done professionally, then maybe you should be thinking if you can afford to run the car or not :(

Sorry for being rather frank...................but you have to face facts :)

[jm26]

Just a quick update.

I had both lower suspension arms replaced this week along with the anti roll bar drop links.

This improved the ride a little but the shaky steering still exists. I also had laser tracking done but the car still pulls to the left. The mechanic offered to test drive the car so I was happy to let him try it.

He agreed there was a pull to the left when there shouldn't be as tracking had just been done. He said the movement of the steering wheel when hitting bumps might just be a characteristic of the car but didn't feel at all dangerous. He said he could possibly compensate for the pull by altering the tracking, but this would just mask the problem causing it and obviously it would be trial and error to get it right everytime i want it doing. He's taking it back in next wednesday to re-check the tracking and have a look over the steering components to see if there is any play anywhere.

If he finds a cheap fix, i'll pay, but if it's a steering rack problem etc then it's going to have to be fixed by the dealer who sold me it.

The car also seems to have developed a steering wheel shimmy pretty much as soon as i hit 60mph. It didn't do this before suspension and tracking replacements etc.

The thing i still don't understand is, the car used to pull quite strongly to the right. So i swapped the front tyres to the back and vice versa. After doing this the steerign pulled to the left quite strongly??? Anyone got any ideas?

Cheers, will update next week.

[jm26]

Hi,

I had a go at replacing the suspension arms today, was doing it for 4 hours and couldn't even get one off lol. I managed to get the 3 bolts off but couldn't get the ball joint free. I even boght a splitter for the job but it wouldn't fit properly.

Also managed to bust the rubber part of the ball joint containing all of the grease. So will have to get it sorted pretty soon.

There was no play in the wheels left to right or up and down when steering was locked. When not locked (key in) the wheels could be moved from all the way left to all the way right which would move the steering wheel all the way around. I assume this is normal? Or shoudn't they turn as easily as this?

Cheers

To be brutally frank with you....................you appear to know very little about the mechanical side of your Yaris.

I would suggest that as you have now split the ball joint rubber and have bought a splitter that is not fit for the job, that you bite the bullet and get your car into a Toyota approved service centre as soon as possible to get the ball joint changed and the problem sorted out professionally.

This may cost you quite a bit.................but you will have the comfort of knowing that the work has not been bodged and that the geometery has been set up to the correct specification using the proper equipment.

Try to obtain a quotation for the work required first.......................but get it done soon!!

If you feel that you really cannot afford to get the work done professionally, then maybe you should be thinking if you can afford to run the car or not :(

Sorry for being rather frank...................but you have to face facts :)

Your right, i don't know much about the mechanical side of cars, but I actually quite enjoy being able to do these kind of things myself and having a go is the only way to learn. It's not really a case of not being able to afford it. You have to have a go to see if you can do it yourself. I won't take it to a toyota garage though, it's just too expensive.

[jm26]

If the car is jacked up, you should be able to turn the front wheels left to right no problem even without the engine (P/S) running.

Doing this also turns the steering wheel in the car.....If it didn't, you would have a serious problem!

Whilst you was fiddling near the wheels, did you do a check on the front suspension for a broken spring or any other abnormalities?

Sorry didn't see this question. Yes checked springs but they looked ok and garage didn't see anything wrong last week.

[alfiejts]

Your right, i don't know much about the mechanical side of cars, but I actually quite enjoy being able to do these kind of things myself and having a go is the only way to learn. It's not really a case of not being able to afford it. You have to have a go to see if you can do it yourself. I won't take it to a toyota garage though, it's just too expensive.

There are some things its good to try for yourself - washing, polishing - even basic servicing such as oil changes and similar, but if your friend needed an operation, would you go and buy a scalpel and just "give it a go" yourself? No, you'd rely on someone who was properly trained to do the job - so not every job is suitable for the untrained to "have a go".

If you get anything wrong with a job on the steering or brakes, there's every chance that your car could end up unsafe with potentially severe consequences to you, any passenger and anything else on the road (or pavement) that you happened to hit if it went out of control.

If you're not experienced and know what you're doing, its best to leave steering and brake work to properly trained mechanics - whether at a Toyota dealers or an independent garage....