Toyota Accelerator Pedal Recall For Europe

[Uncle Bob]

We keep hearing the Toyota name being dragged through the mud, what about the American company CTS that made the throttle pedels

http://www.mississauga.com/news/article/54...to-blame-toyota

[Phoenix999]

I have just received my first letter from Toyota UK informing that my car will soon be recalled.

I fail to see why the crappy media in this country is whipping this matter into what appears to be a frenzy.... good grief there is little else in the news :ffs:

I am satisfied with the current situation and await my actual recall information letter telling me to book my car in for the work.

To Mr Toyota UK.... I am happy with your service and I see no reason to worry about my car

[bubbles66]

Hi

My partner drives an auris and she has recieved a recall letter today and refuses to drive it with my 3 year old in it, to the point where she wants to get rid of it and get another one. Because we have only recently bought the car we stand to lose a lot of money, do toyota have to buy it back off you if your not happy with it being modified from its standard assembly.

[bubbles66]

Video showing the actual fix -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUGHibAWciM...player_embedded

sorry but this to me isn't a fix, putting a piece of metal between two contacting surfaces using a screw driver. It should be a whole new unit incorporating the fix.

[Phoenix999]

Hi

My partner drives an auris and she has recieved a recall letter today and refuses to drive it with my 3 year old in it, to the point where she wants to get rid of it and get another one. Because we have only recently bought the car we stand to lose a lot of money, do toyota have to buy it back off you if your not happy with it being modified from its standard assembly.

The accelerator pedal problem is not a life threatening issue so there is little to worry about, frankly I do not see why this whole issue is being dealt with in the way it is. Other recalls are going on all the time and we never hear of those.

Toyota are not obliged to buy your car back as it is 'fit for purpose' and the small part can and will be easily rectified.... stick with it as once the part is replaced you will have a good car as the Auris is a fine vehicle

[dave.m]

Video showing the actual fix -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUGHibAWciM...player_embedded

sorry but this to me isn't a fix, putting a piece of metal between two contacting surfaces using a screw driver. It should be a whole new unit incorporating the fix.

As a mechanical engineer of 32 years, I would agree with Toyotas fix. The problem lies within the part of the pedal

which deliberately causes friction. As the pedal is "drive by wire" the friction caused gives the driver the "feel" of a

conventional pedal set up. If you place a smoother piece of steel between the friction faces you get less friction

and less chance of it sticking. There seems to be a lot more technical info about this on the many US sites.

As Steve (Phoenix) says, the whole thing has been blown out of proportion, no doubt the media hype especially

in the US was stirred up by Toyotas competitors (GM ?). As they say, when your no1 they try to bring you down

(especially when your own product is sh^t, and your sales are dwindling). Have also read that GM are offering

big incentives to Toyota owners to trade them in against GM cars. As the yanks would say GO FIGURE

[Uncle Bob]

Video showing the actual fix -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUGHibAWciM...player_embedded

sorry but this to me isn't a fix, putting a piece of metal between two contacting surfaces using a screw driver. It should be a whole new unit incorporating the fix.

As a mechanical engineer of 32 years, I would agree with Toyotas fix. The problem lies within the part of the pedal

which deliberately causes friction. As the pedal is "drive by wire" the friction caused gives the driver the "feel" of a

conventional pedal set up. If you place a smoother piece of steel between the friction faces you get less friction

and less chance of it sticking. There seems to be a lot more technical info about this on the many US sites.

As Steve (Phoenix) says, the whole thing has been blown out of proportion, no doubt the media hype especially

in the US was stirred up by Toyotas competitors (GM ?). As they say, when your no1 they try to bring you down

(especially when your own product is sh^t, and your sales are dwindling). Have also read that GM are offering

big incentives to Toyota owners to trade them in against GM cars. As the yanks would say GO FIGURE

The metal shim added is not as random as it first seems, the technician measures the clearance With a feeler gauge, he then has 6 different shim sizes to use ,if by some chance its outside those shim options ,a new pedal would be ordered.

[rickers]

HI Guys;

I am confused about the timeline of this recall. maybe timeline is the wrong word, but you will get my drift if you read my little story.

First of all neither my car (55 Avensis) or my dad's (54 Prius) are affected by this issue, so I have no axe to grind, apart from the fact that the Prius recently had to have a new waterpump, as it was slightly leaking past the seal, and the replacement came under a different PN. indicating to me that they must have re-designed it in some way. Design fault to start with???

Anyway, my main question is that I am interested in, if the floor matt recall was a genuine problem or if it was only performed whilst the pedal was the problem after all and not the floor matt. In my Avensis if have fitted the mats from my Mark II, and although there are loose I cannot see how they can move themselves ON TOP of the pedal.

I am in two minds at the moment, whereas a lot of people are complimenting Mr.T in keeping their cars safe, I am probably clouded by media coverage, in thinking that if the Floor matt recall was a red herring, and they have to finally admit defeat and issue a much more publiced (jumped on by the media) recall for something that might have been the problem all along. If it is the latter then serves them right, but if it is the former then well done Toyota.

I do hope they they will give up their quest to become the worlds largest maker, and go back to making good quality cars again, as when i read the current forums it makes me cry, as there are some problems there that I never even had with my 18 year old (150K miles) Mark II import. 70+k with brake pads anyone or 100+k with discs and then not worn out. I do miss this car, but after 8 years in my possesion the fuel and brake pipes were rusty, so she had to go.

Sorry for this maybe being a bit ignorant of the issues, but there have been some many stories about this thing it has made it hard to follow which is which.

regards

rick

[Phoenix999]

.... if the floor matt recall was a genuine problem....

This was not a genuine problem as the recall is related to the pedal hinge mechnism

My car has now been recalled for this coming Thursday.... the dealer said the work will take less than 1 hour to complete :)

[rickers]

So you are saying phoenix that even when the floor matt recall came out, the pedal mecahnism was the REAL problem. ND it took Toyota this long to awknoledge this. This is POOR man. Serious loss of face !!!!!!!!!

[SF695]

It takes time to discover and comfirm a problem, that is caused by wear. And in all fairness, no car manufacturer can be expected to issue a recall, only based on a few complains. The problem has to be comfirmed.

[Parts-King]

rickers:

Anyway, my main question is that I am interested in, if the floor matt recall was a genuine problem or if it was only performed whilst the pedal was the problem after all and not the floor matt. In my Avensis if have fitted the mats from my Mark II, and although there are loose I cannot see how they can move themselves ON TOP of the pedal.

There are two seperate issues here.

1: Customers like yourselves will fit any mat in the car without any method of securing them. We see on a regular basis, mats that creep forward and either get hooked up under the clutch pedal, or under the accelerator pedal. This method of unsecured mats is very dangerous, ALL Toyota genuine cars mats come with a locking clip to stop the mats creeping forward. You might not be able to see how they move, but I can tell you they do!

2: The accelerator pedal recall, brought about by 26 reported cases of accelerator pedlas sticking in the whole of Europe. A particular set of circimstances caused this to happen on a very limited number of cars, so in the true spirit of quality, Toyota have recalled all cars fitted with this type of pedal for inspection and repair if required. If your car comes in for a recall accelerator issue and you have unsecured, non genuine mats in the car, then they will be removed and placed in the boot and you will be informed

In relation to your water pump question, part numbers change all the time, its how things evolve, a better type of seal was probably fitted or a slightly better design, as my old apprentice teacher once told me "if things dont change, they will stay as they are" so if water pumps and countless other things did not evolve, we would all still be going round on horse and carts ;)

Kingo

[Phoenix999]

My car had the recall work done earlier this afternoon. The entire process took less than 1 hour and included a wash and clean inside plus a safety check :)

It also included a £20 voucher towards any future repairs or service bills, I was also told that I will be receiving £20 of Marks & Spencer vouchers directly from Toyota UK :)

Well what can I say other than.... "Thank you Toyota for sensible and good customer service"

The service manager also told me that a huge number of European built cars have an identical part fitted to them so we have to wonder why other manufacturers are not recalling their cars, it appears that this may not be a problem specific to Toyota Is there a hidden sinister issue here We shall have to wait and see

[pharmageddon]

Had my recall done last week and it took maybe half an hour plus the gave the car a good wash and vacuum, which saved me a job!

Not sure why the media jumped all over this story, as recalls happen all the time with other manufacturers. Fiat recalled Puntos because of a brake problem a few years ago and I don't remember reading anything in the press. I just had a letter to my house.

Obviously some people are daft enough to panic over stories blown out of all proportion though. An inspector at the college I work at refused to drive the car we rented for her for the week 'because it's a Toyota'. Big waste of money at a time when staff may be made redundant.

[Carquestions]

I can't see what all the fuss is about, if it was such a big deal wouldn't this forum be covered in threads about sticky throttle pedals????

I for one certainly won’t be sitting here worrying ;)

People got killed. Sad, but not unheard of. What i would like to know is, why we don't hear anything about the people that got killed over Fords break issues. Or in fires in various american branded cars. Can it really be that Ford gets away with covering up and Toyota gets punished for doing at recall. Little late maybe, but still a recall.

To be accurate about it - there has been no formal investigations of any accident involving a Toyota where the driver claimed the gas pedal stuck - there has only been unverfied complaints taken from the NHTSA database - please do no repeat major news outlets claims of accidents and deaths - there simply hasn't been any credible investigations that have proven this -

[Sagitar]

I notice that Toyota have a full page "damage limitation" ad. in UK dailies today - must have cost a bob or two.

[Parts-King]

What you mean is THIS ONE HERE

Kingo

[Carquestions]

rickers:

Anyway, my main question is that I am interested in, if the floor matt recall was a genuine problem or if it was only performed whilst the pedal was the problem after all and not the floor matt. In my Avensis if have fitted the mats from my Mark II, and although there are loose I cannot see how they can move themselves ON TOP of the pedal.

There are two seperate issues here.

1: Customers like yourselves will fit any mat in the car without any method of securing them. We see on a regular basis, mats that creep forward and either get hooked up under the clutch pedal, or under the accelerator pedal. This method of unsecured mats is very dangerous, ALL Toyota genuine cars mats come with a locking clip to stop the mats creeping forward. You might not be able to see how they move, but I can tell you they do!

2: The accelerator pedal recall, brought about by 26 reported cases of accelerator pedlas sticking in the whole of Europe. A particular set of circimstances caused this to happen on a very limited number of cars, so in the true spirit of quality, Toyota have recalled all cars fitted with this type of pedal for inspection and repair if required. If your car comes in for a recall accelerator issue and you have unsecured, non genuine mats in the car, then they will be removed and placed in the boot and you will be informed

In relation to your water pump question, part numbers change all the time, its how things evolve, a better type of seal was probably fitted or a slightly better design, as my old apprentice teacher once told me "if things dont change, they will stay as they are" so if water pumps and countless other things did not evolve, we would all still be going round on horse and carts ;)

Kingo

Of the 26 reported cases I'd like to know the following in the interest of being accurate - 1. Where does this number of 26 originate from. 2. of the 26 reported cases howm many were reported investigated and confirmed? - Toyotas have EDR's in them it shouldn't be too hard - any videos of a sticking pedal - or just claims - I can't think of one recall ever were a mechanic couldn't display a defective part of a recalled car - except in this case.

[Parts-King]

Of the 26 reported cases I'd like to know the following in the interest of being accurate - 1. Where does this number of 26 originate from. 2. of the 26 reported cases howm many were reported investigated and confirmed? - Toyotas have EDR's in them it shouldn't be too hard - any videos of a sticking pedal - or just claims - I can't think of one recall ever were a mechanic couldn't display a defective part of a recalled car - except in this case.

I can't find the info anywhere on Toyota's site now but did find the same number reported in the press

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle7012913.ece

Toyota has admitted to knowing of 26 incidents involving defective pedals in Europe. It had reports of incidents in the winter of 2008-09 but the cases of accelerator pedals “stiffening” were treated as a “quality” issue, not a “safety” issue. Its recall in Europe came last week after a renewed number of incidents this winter.

2. of the 26 reported cases howm many were reported investigated and confirmed?

Sorry - No idea, perhaps point that question to Toyota directly, they would be the only people able to answer that

Kingo

[Toyota PR]

The 26 number comes from the number of Field Technical Reports that were made in Europe before the recall was started (and the media went bananas).

It's both an important and meaningless number: it shows, I think, how few cases are needed for Toyota to spot a trend and take action, but we have generally accepted any customer's self-diagnosis. For example, many people who have reported the problem since the story was headline news have cars fitted with completely different pedals, some even have throttle cables. We have been dealing with each case, not trying to hide behind any numbers, etc.

[PeterKesel]

Good discussion.I like Toyota.Toyota will implement a recall in Europe for this matter. The details of corrective action and implementation will be communicated directly to customers with vehicles potentially affected.

[Parts-King]

Good discussion.I like Toyota.Toyota will implement a recall in Europe for this matter. The details of corrective action and implementation will be communicated directly to customers with vehicles potentially affected.

What a good way of sneaking an advert into a thread, I presume you paid for the priviledge?.....No I didnt think so!

Kingo

[anchorman]

Is this still going? I thought that now the media were having fewer dry news days it might have rightfully died off.

I got involved with Channel 4 News after they posted in this topic and ended up on TV apparently jumping on the bandwagon with the rest of the pack when in fact what they showed was half a line of a ten minute statement of me explaining why it was less of an issue for us with manual transmissions than it was for US vehicles with automatics and even then stopping the car should not be insurmountable if they concentrated more on pressing the brake and less on making phone calls. They also added two very untrue and exagerated comments that looked like they were quoted officially by this club;

"we have received numerous reports from RAV4 owners regarding sticking accelerators". Not true and certainly not from me.

"Toyota Owners Club members want their cars examining as soon as possible" Also not true and certainly not from me.

Until that happened I had always seen Channel 4 News as being a factual newscaster when in fact I now see them as no better than the tabloid papperazi. They embellished a balanced and positive account and made it into a negative one - shame on you Channel 4 News. In closing they asked me whether I was concerned about owning a Toyota to which I replied "not at all, I have a new one ordered because they are the best cars money can buy". Unfortunately that doesn't make very exciting news when you want to unfairly emphasise the negative and instil panic into those that don't know any better so it lies somewhere on the cutting room floor. Its my fault for being naive enough to get involved so that one goes down to experience.

I have had Toyotas for years and I cannot imagine why I would want to change. The last RAV has been superb and so have TGB and the dealer - they can never do enough and given that my RAV was one of the first 4.3s which is a very capable 4X4 and a technological marvel it has surprisingly few modifications and the only recall was for rubber mats which I don't have and I don't see as part of the car anyway.

This new one I have is an absolute delight to drive and benefits from lower emmisions, lower fuel consumption and more power - sounds unlikely but it is true. If this appears to be a plug for TGB and a commendation for RRG Macclesfield then so be it but this time its from the horses mouth.

Lets get on with more important things - even the jokes about it are boring now.

[hannadavis]

There are so many cars that was recall by the Toyota company. Toyota has agreed to pay unintended acceleration claimants in 29 states a $29 million settlement. It is standard in such legal concerns that the automaker does not confess wrongdoing. This is, of course, ridiculous from the perspective of everyday logic.

Edited to remove SPAM links

[FROSTYBALLS]

Isn't this more about Toyota wanting to settle outstanding litigation rather than having cases continue for however many years.

Unintended acceleration seems to have been a real issue in the US - not just with Toyota.

"In February 2010, National Public Radio obtained the full NHTSA database of 15,000 unintended acceleration complaints over the past decade, and determined that among all manufacturers, Volkswagen had the highest rate of unintended acceleration complaints in 2009 and 2008(11.5 and 21.6 per 100,000 vehicles respectively), while Suzuki had the highest rate in 2007 and 2006 (27.4 and 24.9 per 100,000 vehicles respectively).Toyota had 7.5, 6.8, 15.2, and 9.7 complaints per 100,000 vehicles in those years. According to NPR's analysis of the NHTSA database, Jaguar, Volvo, and Honda also had high complaints depending on year."

At least Toyota didn't make Audi's mistake in the 1980/90's where they had cases of unintended acceleration the Audi 5000, which led to VW considering pulling Audi out of the US. See below:

"During model years 1982 - 1987, Audi's U.S. sales fell after a series of recalls of Audi 5000 models associated with reported incidents of sudden unintended acceleration linked to six deaths and 700 accidents. At the time, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) was investigating 50 car models from 20 manufacturers for sudden surges of power.

60 Minutes aired a report titled Out of Control on November 23, 1986, featuring interviews with six people who had sued Audi after reporting unintended acceleration, including footage of an Audi 5000 ostensibly displaying a surge of acceleration while the brake pedal was depressed. Subsequent investigation revealed that 60 Minutes had not disclosed they had engineered the vehicle's behavior – fitting a canister of compressed air on the passenger-side floor, to pump fluid via a hose to a hole drilled into the transmission; the arrangement executed by one of the experts who had testified on behalf of a plaintiff in a then pending lawsuit against Audi's parent company.

Audi initially responded by suggesting that the drivers of the cars involved in the incidents were at fault, because they had stepped on the accelerator pedal rather than the brake. Subsequently, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) concluded that the majority of unintended acceleration cases, including all the ones that prompted the 60 Minutes report, were caused by driver error such as confusion of pedals. CBS did not acknowledge the test results of involved government agencies, but did acknowledge the similar results of another study. Audi's research demonstrated that many of the drivers who encountered "unintended acceleration" were "below average in height".

With the series of recall campaigns, Audi made several modifications; the first adjusted the distance between the brake and accelerator pedal on automatic-transmission models. Later repairs, of 250,000 cars dating back to 1978, added a device requiring the driver to press the brake pedal before shifting out of park. As a by-product of the Audi scare, vehicles now include gear stick patterns and brake interlock mechanisms to prevent inadvertent gear selection.

Audis U.S. sales, which had reached 74,061 in 1985, dropped to 12,283 in 1991 and remained level for three years - with resale values falling dramatically. Audi subsequently offered increased warranty protection and renamed the affected models - with the 5000 becoming the 100 and 200 in 1989. The company only reached the same level of U.S. sales again by model year 2000.

As of early 2010, a class-action lawsuit dealing with a charge that on account of the sudden acceleration controversy, Audi models had lost resale value filed in 1987 by about 7,500 Audi 5000 model owners remains unsettled and is currently contested in county court in Chicago after appeals at the Illinois state and U.S. federal levels."