Gti-16 Engine Upgrades / Swap

[jono395]

Hi All..

** My post viewing has gone weird, can only view 1 post at a time? Hmm**

anyway... I have a GTI-16 with the T-VIS engine. . .

Looking for either turbo'ing, or engine conversion... I want to get the best bang for my buck!

The choices ive came to, are;

1.3 Starlet turbo Engine

4AGE With Forged Pistons & Turbo

Blacktop 4AGE

For reliability, the starlet engine seems to be the more ideal soloution... But my queiries are... What gearboxes would be compatable with my GTI hubs Could i run the standard starlet gearbox on the GTI hubs?

Any help on things i havent mentioned would be great!!!!!

Thanks!!

[ricc]

right hand side, options, view mode...standard. bosh.

[ricc]

A nicely spec'd 4AGE with turbo sounds naughty to me! ;)

[jono395]

Cheers ric, ive sorted the view :)

Also, what sort of price range would i be looking at for megasquirt ecu, pistons etc.. I reckoned 400 for pistons, same for rods... turbo and manifold is easy enough.. its just the ECU and mapping side which i dont know alot about :o

[ricc]

I know not the costs of fuel management systems. would a motec work too?

[chaycore]

if youre looking to go the turbo route, try get hold of the agze (supercharged) engine. far stronger internals than the standard 4age, think they can take up to about 240bhp on stock internals and already have a lower compression ratio so it saves you spending money on all the internal upgrades on a 4age. it should fit in without much bother, seen a couple of gti-16s that have been converted. could run omex, motec, megasquirt or possibly just a piggyback chip, depends what your budget is :)

[jono395]

AGZE is too rare to find anymore... and if i was to go past 240bhp, id need better internals in the first place.. so whhy not just get them to start with?..

Where would i be able to find the piggy back chips and turbo management to run it?

cheers

[dawesy]

if you want over240 bhp then go for a 3sgte.

240-300 is very easy to get.

there is more fabrication work to do but its by no means difficult.

dont forget to uprate your brakes as well.

[jono395]

ive recently put a Saab turbo into a astravan.. so not really into the fabrication at the moment! but even so, what gearbox would be compatable.. to go with the GTI-16 hubs?

cheers

[AE_92]

Yeah if I was you I would go for the 3sgte much more bang for your buck :D

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Yeh I'd recommend the 3S-GTE too, mostly because you have Dawesy here right at your fingertips, who is incredibly knowledgeable with 3S-GTE's, scarily so.....

You'll get much more bag for yer buck as mentioned, best idea IMO.

[jono395]

what about the hubs, and gearbox? Which ones would be compatable?

Im really a noob with jap crap... Vauxhalls, VW or saabs i can deal with, but not toyotas... so any help would be appreciated :D..

Im capable of getting it all done, but i want a idea of what kettle of fish im diving in with... IE.. compatable hubs and wiring side..

I dont want to fit the 3sgte engine, to find no hubs are compatable with the GTI-16 setup...

cheers

[Gordy75]

Of the options listed I wouldnt look at the starlet engine and a 20v doesnt put you in much of a better situation than ure already in!

I would love to see a Turbo conversion on a 4age but you will be peaking at figures where the 3sgte is just getting started also

making it a more reliable conversion, imo! so im gonna join in with everyone else and say the 3sgte is the best option for serious power!

[Gordy75]

Also go check out fensport.co.uk

loads of info on there about these conversions!

[dawesy]

you will need an MR2 turbo gearbox and hybrid MR2 turbo/ST-165 GT4 drive shaft combo. the celica outer CV joints fit straight into the GTi hubs.

simples

[ricc]

[AE_92]

Or you could go for a 7agte

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2131056

[ricc]

All of these ideas of engine swaps, big power and naughty old skool cool are making me want a second car! :o

nice levin!

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Or you could go for a 7agte

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2131056

But that's a hybrid engine and requires a hellish amount of work. 7A block and a GE head, getting it to work together in the first place will be hard enough! Then strapping a turbo to it will be insane, but then again, so will the power!

Jono, f.y.i. the 7A-GTE* is a hybrid of two engines. It uses a 7A block because it has a higher displacement of 1.8L as opposed to the 4A-GE's 1.6L, but uses the GE high-flow head for best performance, as opposed to the FE head. You get more torque with the larger displacement. :)

You will need to get a chip for it, because I doubt any ECU with work with it, and you will need to get a timing belt that works for it too.

*7A refers to the block, and GE refers to the head, so I have a 4A block with a GE head, hence 4A-GE. So you use a 7A 1.8, with a GE head, you get 7A-GE. Strap a turbo to that and you get 7A-GTE. and if it's 7A-GZE, then the Z means it has a Supercharger.

I don't know how much you know about Toyota engines so I though I'd say it now lol.

If I'm wrong with anything I ave said, please correct me, anyone. Knowing my mind I'm thinking of something else lol, but I'm pretty sure I am right.

[AE_92]

Or you could go for a 7agte

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2131056

But that's a hybrid engine and requires a hellish amount of work. 7A block and a GE head, getting it to work together in the first place will be hard enough! Then strapping a turbo to it will be insane, but then again, so will the power!

Jono, f.y.i. the 7A-GTE* is a hybrid of two engines. It uses a 7A block because it has a higher displacement of 1.8L as opposed to the 4A-GE's 1.6L, but uses the GE high-flow head for best performance, as opposed to the FE head. You get more torque with the larger displacement. :)

You will need to get a chip for it, because I doubt any ECU with work with it, and you will need to get a timing belt that works for it too.

*7A refers to the block, and GE refers to the head, so I have a 4A block with a GE head, hence 4A-GE. So you use a 7A 1.8, with a GE head, you get 7A-GE. Strap a turbo to that and you get 7A-GTE. and if it's 7A-GZE, then the Z means it has a Supercharger.

I don't know how much you know about Toyota engines so I though I'd say it now lol.

If I'm wrong with anything I ave said, please correct me, anyone. Knowing my mind I'm thinking of something else lol, but I'm pretty sure I am right.

Nice one KP yeah I should have explained what a 7a-gte engine is

This engine would be a lot more work and money needs a custom intake custom exhaust manifold custom pistons custom conrods ect ect that’s why it would be better to do a 3s-gte conversion but 7agte would be cool and as far as I know no one has done it in the whole of the UK and maybe Europe

[jono395]

hi, thanks for the replies...

Cheers Dawsey for that hub info.. :) and KP for that 7agte info.. I did know about the T & Z however ;)

For the 3SGTE engine.. what sort of fab work will be needed.... Are the mounts completely different? Hopefully i wont need to do any modifications to the chassis legs? :o

Ive had a gander on the bay, and a 3S-GTE is around 500 - 700 ... Including wiring and stuff, and the MR2T gearbox, what sort of price range will it be? Im wondering weather its worth going for a whole car, that has tatty bodywork...

also, the ST165 .. is that the only one which i can use the shafts off dawsey?

And just to check.... The 3SGTE engine is in all GT4's yes? Not just the newer ones... ( just asking because the BHP is significantly different, and was wondering why)

thanks guys!

[dawesy]

yeah 3sgte is in all GT4s and MR2 turbos. really id only look at the 2nd gen (st185 about 200bhp) and 3rd gen (st205 around 250bhp) engines.

you can use the drive shafts from a corolla levin superchared but they are harder to get (the corolla needs a slightly shorter shaft than the later celica's)

the engine is largely the same but with head and manifold revisions.

as for fab work, the mounts are all different, however its not too hard a job as long as you know how to use a mig welder. i used ST-205 mounts onto the chassis rails (really only one bracket to weld on and two nuts to be let into the rh chassis rail)

front and rear mounts a re a celica/ corolla hybrid.

gearbox will be around £2-300 (later rev 3 ones have an LSD) there is a mod to make the MR2 box FWD compatible but that only needs a celica selector, a core plug and about 10 minutes

buying a whole car is a good way to go as you will defo have everything (including brakes although you would have to sort the discs as they are 5 stud.

dont forget you will need a fuel pump as well. you can use the celica one but id go for the walbro one as you can get them for about £100. im still running one at nearly 500bhp with a std regulator.

[john905]

yeah go for the 3sgte bud, if you do get an lsd box,i havent and it spins its nuts off