New Prius Brakes Releasing If You Hit Pot Holes!

[Trafficman]

I am sorry, I my opinion, this is no more than just a characteristic of the car.

If you owned a powerful rear wheel drive car, even before you sat in it you could expect that if you entered a bend too fast, the back end to come out and depending on your skill level, you might head backwards into a hedge. That is the charactistic of that car and with correct reading of the road you would avoid the situation.

This is slightly different in that this characteristic is only revelled either by research on forums like this or PriusChat or by first hand experience.

Having experienced this characteristic myself once and I'll agree that it isn't a nice feeling, but we then should be able to recognise the road conditions that might provoke this characteristic and alter our driving accordingly where possible (brake earlier on a smooth surface, give extra distance between cars, etc) and in unavoidable situations expect and not be shocked by this characteristic.

Some people have mentioned that they felt this characteristic over several seconds. I wasn't in the car with them so I will not disagree with their assessment. But in my opinion, milli-seconds would be a more accurate figure, even if it felt longer.

I will ask you to do a few small experiments:

Just count to yourself while you press the brake pedal in any given situation and you will be amazed just how short a time you are actually on the brakes and how quickly speed is scrubbed off.

Next, travelling at a steady speed, when you pass a landmark (road sign, whatever), count to yourself, two or three seconds and then look back in our mirror and see just how far you have travelled in those two or three seconds.

If Toyota do have a software fix for this characteristic all well and good but in the mean time I will rely on reading the road correctly, using correct observation (I am sure any former bikers know the importance of watching out for diesel spill's on the road surface) to be cautious when braking on broken road surfaces.

It has happened to me a number of times and can be milliseconds or on one occasion about a second or so! It depends on the road surface I believe as well as your reaction time!

[simon stanleigh]

HI there,

would you be able to give me a call at Channel 4 news about your Prius? thanks Simon Stanleigh 0207 4304626

[Trafficman]

To add my two pennys' worth. I did 75,000miles in a 55 Mk 2 and had this maybe 4 times and put it down to Nanny Prius trying to take too much care of me. Not pleasant, but never dangerous. I have as yet not had it with my Mk 3 in 7,000 miles.

Yes it would be good to have it sorted, but come on folks, the washing machine scares me more!

[Fujisan]

HI there,

would you be able to give me a call at Channel 4 news about your Prius? thanks Simon Stanleigh 0207 4304626

No thank you.

Yes it would be good to have it sorted, but come on folks, the washing machine scares me more!

Nice one Trafficman

[flow]

I am sorry, I my opinion, this is no more than just a characteristic of the car.

Sorry but i totally dissagree with that. There is a design fault/software glitch, caused by the regenerative braking (?). Whether its classed as dangerous is open for discussion - when it occurs, the car doesnt actually accelerate, it just gives that impression (abit like a virtual reality ride).

Its happened to me dozens of times, mainly if there is a pot hole by a junction & as a result im more aware of it. Its got nothing to do with how careful you drive the car. If anything, stamping on the brakes will stop it from happening as normal braking wil occur.

The main thing is, Toyota have now accepted there is an issue & have developed a software fix for it. The issue now is getting them to order a recall here as well as in the usa/Japan.

[Fujisan]

Its happened to me dozens of times, mainly if there is a pot hole by a junction & as a result im more aware of it. Its got nothing to do with how careful you drive the car.

Exactly

You are now careful where you drive and try to avoid the potholes. A good technique to be practised in all cars if possible for the continued health and wellbeing of your car.

[flow]

Its happened to me dozens of times, mainly if there is a pot hole by a junction & as a result im more aware of it. Its got nothing to do with how careful you drive the car.

Exactly

You are now careful where you drive and try to avoid the potholes. A good technique to be practised in all cars if possible for the continued health and wellbeing of your car.

Not all cars have a braking issue like the prius - When i drive another car, I will contunue to be careful of potholes - for fear of damaging the suspension, not giving me a fright over the braking

[johalareewi]

Yes it would be good to have it sorted, but come on folks, the washing machine scares me more!

And so it should...

http://www.dontgivefireahome.com/fire_safety/1415.html

[Grumpy Cabbie]

HI there,

would you be able to give me a call at Channel 4 news about your Prius? thanks Simon Stanleigh 0207 4304626

Maybe someone should ring this guy as it now appears that Toyota UK are saying that the UK RHD version is different to the US & Japanese Prius's and doesn't have this brake issue!!!!

Yeah sure it doesn't.

Brings into question of how someone in the UK reports such issues as we have to trust the dealer and the manufacturer to do something unlike in the USA where they have the NHTSA http://www.nhtsa.gov/ who are an independent body.

Perhaps that's a story the press can look into?

[wooski]

Except the Jap cars are RHD too! I just don't buy our UK cars and Jap cars are any different in this regard.

Madness.

[phil4]

Except the Jap cars are RHD too! I just don't buy our UK cars and Jap cars are any different in this regard.

Madness.

I think the reason for the UK being excluded could be due to this thinking "Toyota said the glitch was not legally a safety hazard" from the BBC article on such.

This would also explain why there's been no u-turn yet.

If it's not legally a safety hazard, then I suspect they're not obliged to recall or sort. And being cynical I suspect the reason there is currently an accelerator recall is more to do with a legal obligation than doing right by the customer.

That's just my jaded opinion I'm afraid.

[avensis99]

I am sorry, I my opinion, this is no more than just a characteristic of the car.

If you owned a powerful rear wheel drive car, even before you sat in it you could expect that if you entered a bend too fast, the back end to come out and depending on your skill level, you might head backwards into a hedge. That is the charactistic of that car and with correct reading of the road you would avoid the situation.

This is slightly different in that this characteristic is only revelled either by research on forums like this or PriusChat or by first hand experience.

Having experienced this characteristic myself once and I'll agree that it isn't a nice feeling, but we then should be able to recognise the road conditions that might provoke this characteristic and alter our driving accordingly where possible (brake earlier on a smooth surface, give extra distance between cars, etc) and in unavoidable situations expect and not be shocked by this characteristic.

Some people have mentioned that they felt this characteristic over several seconds. I wasn't in the car with them so I will not disagree with their assessment. But in my opinion, milli-seconds would be a more accurate figure, even if it felt longer.

I will ask you to do a few small experiments:

Just count to yourself while you press the brake pedal in any given situation and you will be amazed just how short a time you are actually on the brakes and how quickly speed is scrubbed off.

Next, travelling at a steady speed, when you pass a landmark (road sign, whatever), count to yourself, two or three seconds and then look back in our mirror and see just how far you have travelled in those two or three seconds.

If Toyota do have a software fix for this characteristic all well and good but in the mean time I will rely on reading the road correctly, using correct observation (I am sure any former bikers know the importance of watching out for diesel spill's on the road surface) to be cautious when braking on broken road surfaces.

i fully agree with EVERYTHING you have said, it really is a case of driving correctly and learning to read the the situations when you are driving. as you say you would not expect to drive such as as a landcruiser and expec tit to drive handle and stop the same as say an aygo or IQ, think the owners who are just jumping on the bandwagon such just think about the reasons they decided to buy a toyota in the first place!!!!!

[Fujisan]

i fully agree with EVERYTHING you have said, it really is a case of driving correctly and learning to read the the situations when you are driving. as you say you would not expect to drive such as as a landcruiser and expec tit to drive handle and stop the same as say an aygo or IQ, think the owners who are just jumping on the bandwagon such just think about the reasons they decided to buy a toyota in the first place!!!!!

Thank you

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Except the Jap cars are RHD too! I just don't buy our UK cars and Jap cars are any different in this regard.

Madness.

I think the reason for the UK being excluded could be due to this thinking "Toyota said the glitch was not legally a safety hazard" from the BBC article on such.

This would also explain why there's been no u-turn yet.

If it's not legally a safety hazard, then I suspect they're not obliged to recall or sort. And being cynical I suspect the reason there is currently an accelerator recall is more to do with a legal obligation than doing right by the customer.

That's just my jaded opinion I'm afraid.

Which is why I'm not going to let this matter drop. Could Toyota be hoping to fob us all off until the press get bored? We always have Watchdog as a back up. Yes I know it's cheesy but she does get things done! I'm gonna give Toyota a bit of give on this as I'm sure they're in a spin with all the recalls - but I will not be fobbed off either.

[Karma Supra]

Just rung Toyota and got a useless call centre in Africa reading from an out of date script. They said there is no problem in the UK and when I told him the news says different he hung up! Nice!!!!

I would go absolutely ape over this, I'm assuming you are a proffesional driver too with paying customer in your car. I'd be straight onto the press, they'd lap it up and pay you good money. !Removed! stirring? perhaps, but NO ONE should be spoken to or treated like that by a company that is clearly in the wrong.

[phil4]

Except the Jap cars are RHD too! I just don't buy our UK cars and Jap cars are any different in this regard.

Madness.

I think the reason for the UK being excluded could be due to this thinking "Toyota said the glitch was not legally a safety hazard" from the BBC article on such.

This would also explain why there's been no u-turn yet.

If it's not legally a safety hazard, then I suspect they're not obliged to recall or sort. And being cynical I suspect the reason there is currently an accelerator recall is more to do with a legal obligation than doing right by the customer.

That's just my jaded opinion I'm afraid.

Which is why I'm not going to let this matter drop. Could Toyota be hoping to fob us all off until the press get bored? We always have Watchdog as a back up. Yes I know it's cheesy but she does get things done! I'm gonna give Toyota a bit of give on this as I'm sure they're in a spin with all the recalls - but I will not be fobbed off either.

You go for it. My cynical view above certainly isn't me saying "don't complain", I reckon it must need more and more press/watchdog imvolvment because as I mentioned above, I don't think Toyota think they're legally obliged for safety reasons (though they may be under sale of goods act, etc. etc.), which is why they're doing everything they can to fob us off.

[Toyota PR]

There is currently no recall on Prius anywhere in the world. This is a fact.

There are press reports - quoting other press reports, but no Toyota executive - saying there will be a recall. These are speculation.

The cases are under investigation. It might be determined that for various reasons, not least reassurance of customers, that a "recall" (whatever the definition) is announced. If and when that happens we will let everyone know.

[Fujisan]

There is currently no recall on Prius anywhere in the world. This is a fact.

There are press reports - quoting other press reports, but no Toyota executive - saying there will be a recall. These are speculation.

The cases are under investigation. It might be determined that for various reasons, not least reassurance of customers, that a "recall" (whatever the definition) is announced. If and when that happens we will let everyone know.

I hear what you are saying ...... but I really do think it is now a case of when, not if.

Story from today's Japan Times.

Today's Autocar.

[timberwolf]

My guess is that a "fix" won't completely solve the problem (i.e. it is an inherent quirk in the design) and what Toyota is going to do (and has done for the Gen 3 since January) is tweak (tune) some values to get closer to the behaviour of the Gen 2.

Of course, no one would have to guess at whether it needed "fixing" if Toyota had been transparent and asked its engineers to explain to the public how the Prius braking system worked and what caused this inherent quirk.

[mfs1011]

RECALL!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8502894.stm

Review of other hybrid models as well though no recall on the Gen 2 (media not always clear on this) or the Lexus Hybrids YET.

[Sagitar]

There is a Prius "'phone in" on the Nicky Campbell show on BBC Radio 5 Live at the moment.

[wooski]

RECALL!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8502894.stm

Review of other hybrid models as well though no recall on the Gen 2 (media not always clear on this) or the Lexus Hybrids YET.

All the media is full of this today - despite the fact it was on Priuschat days ago..... And still no official announcement.

What's so humiliating for Toyota here is not only does it allow people to attack the Prius (mainly because its such an icon of the green movement when climate scepticism is growing) but also that it's been forced every step to admit what it already knows. Toyota had a fix ready for production in January - this means they must have investigated in the autumn and found the issue then. It's this apparent lack of transparency which is so damaging for them.

And lets not even get into the "it doesnt affect UK cars" statement - which has annoyed me and is clearly not true.

Me thinks Toyota could have handled this alot better. Honesty is always the answer - its the only way to restore trust.

[wooski]

There is a Prius "'phone in" on the Nicky Campbell show on BBC Radio 5 Live at the moment.

BBC Wake Up To Money

The guy they interview from Japan is well informed. Well worth a listen.

[posing]

The brake problem exists on gen 2 so surely they have to recall them as well. The workaround is dont drive over potholes when braking! :P

[cootuk]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7...re-upgrade.html

Telegraph now reporting UK owners of the GenIII can get a voluntary software patch