My Prius Update Re Break Issue & Story With Toyota Gb Hq

[hsiaolc]

I have been the new 2010 Purius owner since Setpember and I have had a few instances with the brake issue myself. There are two instances I remember where the car just launches forward as if it had what they called a jump start in F1 when you press the brake. The most memorable instance was when one night I was coming down from a moderate hill and upon coming to a roundabout I wanted to make a left and as I was approaching the roundabout I start to apply the brakes early (since I have encounted the launching forward problem before) just to take precaution, and as I got closer to the roundabout my speed was reduced to about 5-10mph but just as I was about to make the left turn I pressed on the break once more and the car just shoot forward for about 2-3 meters. Least to say the experience was frightening and I was in Shell shock for a while not knowing what have had happened. If that night there was another car in the opposite lane I would have smashed right into it.

After everything has occured and still occuring I thought it was a new Prius trait or characteristics since I've read so many reports of them in Priuschat forum and thought I needed to change my driving style and to which I did. Everytime I need to stop now, I make sure I brake well in advance so not to encounter the problem and even if I did I would have enough time to correct the problem. Based on that fact I've never taken my car in or never reported to Toyota before.

After reading the press realease and realised everything I've experienced so far is not a Prius trait but a defect or problem, I started to get really upset and furious. Why? Because they issued a recall for all 2010 Prius in USA and Japan but not Europe or the UK. We all know that all the Prius in the world are made exclusively in Japan in the two plants and that all Prius from the rest of the world come from these two plants. So if America and Japan have the problem then the rest of the world have the same problem too. It is as if we are not important, as if our lives are more expendable than the Amercans or the Japanese.

As of 5th of February 2010 I called up Toyota GB HQ and asked why they have not issued a recall for the Prius in the UK and all the answer I've got was that they heard no such a problem in the UK and the brake problem with the Prius has never been reported in the UK. Not only that I was told that the Prius made in the UK had different specifications than that of the Japane and USA model. WE all know thats not true. As a matter of fact they didnt' even bother adapting the Prius for UK owners because the rear wiper is exactly at the same place as the counter part in the USA but yet we drive in different positions. After all the BS on the phone I was told I had to go through procedures so I had to take my car into my Toyota dealer and they will take a look at it and test it out to see if there is a fault.

I called my dealer and the calls arn't so pleasant. At first I was transfered to the Service Manager and I was brushed off and tone was not very good but he didn't say anything in particular expect we agreed to take my car in for testing after a weeks time when they have spare cars available.

Later I recieved a call from the techinical department and this made me furious. First off the tone from this man was harsh and condensending. Later it started to brush me off as if I am a moron. He said he owns a Prius and this lurking forward after braking is very normal. So normal infact that it is because of the ABS system and as if I don't know how ABS system behaved. Not only that he told me that he is the technically minded guy and I dont' know what I am talking about and only he is right and I am wrong. In the middle of the conversation I got so upset that I told him I will call him back on a recorded line so that he could repeat everything he has said to me. Only after I called him back his tone all changed and asked me to take my car in for a immediate 20 minute testing session.

I do have all the calls recorded.

Let me ask all new Prius owners here, ARE you not upset as to how we have been treated by Toyota? Even now they still deny the problem and worse they only recognise the problem in the USA and Japan but not UK and Europe.

Can't we all get together and put our voiced together? This is my first new car I have ever owned and I can't believe this kind of treatment and experience.

[Fujisan]

as I got closer to the roundabout my speed was reduced to about 5-10mph but just as I was about to make the left turn I pressed on the break once more and the car just shoot forward for about 2-3 meters.

I think I am right in saying that because the regenerative brake system loses effiency at low speeds, the car will switch to total (normal) hydraulic braking at 7mph at all times, anyway. And when on normal hydraulic brakes this characteristic of the Prius braking system will never reveal itself.

So.....I don't like to doubt you and I sure what you say is true but....

I do have all the calls recorded.

Hmm....you can record calls You are not a journalist by any chance.

Let me ask all new Prius owners here, ARE you not upset as to how we have been treated by Toyota?

No.

But I will say if you were treated on the phone by your dealership's staff in that way, well that is in excuseable, but I had always found Toyota dealers most helpful and courteous.

BTW, if you don't mind, no one like's a whole post in bold type, with an increased sized font......it's shouting. Thank you.

[GIDDLEPIN]

I'm disappointed in you Fujisan :(

Not once in your reply did you welcome this new member to the club ......It made a refreshing change for me not to have to use my glasses to read an article.......Thank you hsiaolc and welcome to the club

[Fujisan]

I'm disappointed in you Fujisan :(

Not once in your reply did you welcome this new member to the club ......It made a refreshing change for me not to have to use my glasses to read an article.......Thank you hsiaolc and welcome to the club

I am sorry GIDDLEPIN and I do beg your pardon.

You are quite right.

Welcome to the TOC, hsiaolc.

[GIDDLEPIN]

I'm disappointed in you Fujisan :(

Not once in your reply did you welcome this new member to the club ......It made a refreshing change for me not to have to use my glasses to read an article.......Thank you hsiaolc and welcome to the club

I am sorry GIDDLEPIN and I do beg your pardon.

You are quite right.

Welcome to the TOC, hsiaolc.

I should think so :P ...................................and if he comes back he will see how much we care ;)

[MichaelM]

My 59 T Spirit has never had any brake problems. Of course the brakes are different from some other cars but you soon

get used to this.

If Toyota UK says the problem does not apply to UK models surely we must accept this?

Finally if someone finds it necessary to record their telephone calls (I presume after the legal requirement of first notifying the person they are calling)

I do wonder if they have other motives.

[Toyota PR]

I hope I can clear up a few points and offer some reassurance.

Firstly, no matter what you read in any press or hear on the TV and radio, there is currently no recall on third-generation Prius anywhere in the world.

Toyota has received customer complaints about the way the brakes work (i.e brake feel). There is no evidence of brakes failing.

Some customers have reported that, under certain braking conditions, such as when hitting a bump, pothole or low grip surface, they notice a change in the braking feel of their third-generation Toyota Prius. This change in braking feel is due to the specific set-up of the anti-lock braking system on third-generation Prius. At no time are drivers without brakes.

However, to answer customer criticisms and in line with Toyota’s traditional Kaisen (continuous improvement) philosophy, a change to the software was introduced in production from late January 2010. This change does not alter the effectiveness of the brakes, but gives the driver a more consistent braking feeling.

Safety and customer satisfaction are paramount to Toyota. We continue to investigate any customer reports on braking issues. We are also investigating how and when we could offer customers with third-generation Prius built before January 2010 the same software upgrade as has been applied to production. We will be in contact with customers shortly on this matter.

If you have any concerns please contact your Toyota Retailer or our UK Customer Relations free-phone line on 0800 1388 744.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

My 59 T Spirit has never had any brake problems. Of course the brakes are different from some other cars but you soon

get used to this.

If Toyota UK says the problem does not apply to UK models surely we must accept this?

Finally if someone finds it necessary to record their telephone calls (I presume after the legal requirement of first notifying the person they are calling)

I do wonder if they have other motives.

Just because you don't have it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have had it and so have others. We are somewhat frustrated because we are being treated like fools!

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I hope I can clear up a few points and offer some reassurance.

Firstly, no matter what you read in any press or hear on the TV and radio, there is currently no recall on third-generation Prius anywhere in the world.

Toyota has received customer complaints about the way the brakes work (i.e brake feel). There is no evidence of brakes failing.

Some customers have reported that, under certain braking conditions, such as when hitting a bump, pothole or low grip surface, they notice a change in the braking feel of their third-generation Toyota Prius. This change in braking feel is due to the specific set-up of the anti-lock braking system on third-generation Prius. At no time are drivers without brakes.

However, to answer customer criticisms and in line with Toyota’s traditional Kaisen (continuous improvement) philosophy, a change to the software was introduced in production from late January 2010. This change does not alter the effectiveness of the brakes, but gives the driver a more consistent braking feeling.

Safety and customer satisfaction are paramount to Toyota. We continue to investigate any customer reports on braking issues. We are also investigating how and when we could offer customers with third-generation Prius built before January 2010 the same software upgrade as has been applied to production. We will be in contact with customers shortly on this matter.

If you have any concerns please contact your Toyota Retailer or our UK Customer Relations free-phone line on 0800 1388 744.

Thank you.

Suggest a similar post is left on the US forum under the UK section for Prius owners who use that forum.

[Chris Dance]

I do not think anybody disputes the brake problem exists or that folk have not expierenced it. Toyota PR seems to have made the situation clear and if any of us have any major concerns to get in touch with their retailer ot Toyota customer relations. I am sure the brake issue can be resolved without all the media hype; after all the Prius is a fantastic car and many writers on this forum have stated that. Some of the writings on the forum recently give the impression the Prius is an unsafe car and should not be on the road. I do hope the brake problem is resolved for all who have genuine concerns but to "rubbish" a good car and company and play into the media hype is wrong. Someone rang me yesterday asking about my Prius and the brake problem. I just said I am 100% happy with my Prius.

[Fujisan]

I should think so :P ...................................and if he comes back he will see how much we care ;)

:group-cuddles:

[Fujisan]

I hope I can clear up a few points and offer some reassurance.

Firstly, no matter what you read in any press or hear on the TV and radio, there is currently no recall on third-generation Prius anywhere in the world.

Toyota has received customer complaints about the way the brakes work (i.e brake feel). There is no evidence of brakes failing.

Some customers have reported that, under certain braking conditions, such as when hitting a bump, pothole or low grip surface, they notice a change in the braking feel of their third-generation Toyota Prius. This change in braking feel is due to the specific set-up of the anti-lock braking system on third-generation Prius. At no time are drivers without brakes.

However, to answer customer criticisms and in line with Toyota’s traditional Kaisen (continuous improvement) philosophy, a change to the software was introduced in production from late January 2010. This change does not alter the effectiveness of the brakes, but gives the driver a more consistent braking feeling.

Safety and customer satisfaction are paramount to Toyota. We continue to investigate any customer reports on braking issues. We are also investigating how and when we could offer customers with third-generation Prius built before January 2010 the same software upgrade as has been applied to production. We will be in contact with customers shortly on this matter.

If you have any concerns please contact your Toyota Retailer or our UK Customer Relations free-phone line on 0800 1388 744.

Thank you

I do not think anybody disputes the brake problem exists or that folk have not expierenced it. Toyota PR seems to have made the situation clear and if any of us have any major concerns to get in touch with their retailer ot Toyota customer relations. I am sure the brake issue can be resolved without all the media hype; after all the Prius is a fantastic car and many writers on this forum have stated that. Some of the writings on the forum recently give the impression the Prius is an unsafe car and should not be on the road. I do hope the brake problem is resolved for all who have genuine concerns but to "rubbish" a good car and company and play into the media hype is wrong. Someone rang me yesterday asking about my Prius and the brake problem. I just said I am 100% happy with my Prius.

Here here

100% happy with my Prius too

[flow]

Thank you Toyota PR for the statement.

I think most genuine people on here know the brakes do not suddenly fail, it only gives that feeling.

However Toyota care to word it, the software implemation on Jan 2010 cars was made to eliminate the 'flightly' feeling, experienced while regen braking at slow speeds over a pothole or similar.

While I/we acknowledge its hard to class it as dangerous and the media are blowing it all out of proportion, so long as Toyota acknowledge this 'glitch' exits and will look at the best way of implementing the software change onto pre Jan UK cars...I will be happy.

[QS73]

Just noticed this on Associated Press

DETROIT – Toyota has told dealers it's preparing a plan to repair the brakes on thousands of hybrid Prius cars in the U.S.

In a message sent Friday night to dealers, a Toyota group vice president, Bob Carter, said the company is working on a plan and will disclose more details early next week. More than 100 drivers of 2010 Prius cars have complained that their brakes seemed to fail momentarily when they were driving on bumpy roads. The U.S. government says the problem is suspected in four crashes and two minor injuries.

Public awareness of the problem "has prompted considerable customer concern, speculation, and media attention due to the significance of the Prius image," Carter said in the e-mail. "We want to assure our dealers that we are moving rapidly to provide a solution for your existing customers."

Toyota blames a software glitch and says it has already fixed vehicles in production. But it's still deciding how to handle repairs on 270,000 Priuses that were sold in the U.S. and Japan starting last year. The company could announce a full-fledged safety recall or simply ask owners to bring their vehicles in for repairs, since the brakes aren't failing completely.

The problem isn't related to separate recalls involving millions of Toyotas with defective gas pedals and floor mats that could cause unintended acceleration.

Interesting????

[Fujisan]

First of all, welcome to the TOC, thank you for joining our merry little band. :group-cuddles:

Interesting????

Frankly no!

There are five threads just in the Prius section of the TOC related to this issue.

God knows how many threads on PriusChat.

If and when Toyota UK say they are rolling out a software update, now that will be news.

[hsiaolc]

I'm disappointed in you Fujisan :(

Not once in your reply did you welcome this new member to the club ......It made a refreshing change for me not to have to use my glasses to read an article.......Thank you hsiaolc and welcome to the club

Thank you for your warm welcome. I Didn't think there were any activities in these forums so took some delay to reply.

Most of my replies are made in Priuschat so I am not going to say that much more here. Since Toyota PR have made some kind of acknowledgement of the problem then I am just going to sit tight and wait. But It would be nice if instead of just mentioning USA and Japan they should also mention UK, Europe and the rest of the world as well since Prius are not just sold in the USA and JAPAN alone.

As for why my phones are being recorded, is becauseI work in a bank and it is the nature of the business that all my calls are recorded. I do tell all of them that my phones are recorded and funny enough they still lie. What lies you might ask? Well one of them said that they have NEVER heard of the brake problem from anyone in the UK and I am the FIRST to ever report it to them. Yeah right. We have been telling them the problem in the USA and UK since last year and as early as August to my knowledge. Besides that my calls are being recoreded, the press has been reporting the problem already being investigated but YET they still say they have never heard of such a problem. How dare they? They think we are all just stuipd? The more I talk or think about this the more upset I get. Did I mention that they even have the guts to tell me that UK prius are made different than USA and Japan versions and have different specifications? We should let someone invesitigate that because as far as we all know thats not true. Lies and more Lies trying to cover up. Do they think this will give them a better reputation or try to keep whatever they have got left?

I believe today Channel 4 news has been circling around a Toyota dealer today already because I happen to drive pass by them. I didn't stop and say anything to them because I want to give Toyota just another chance. If they feel they havn't have had enough press recently then I will try to give them more for liying to their customers. Where are their applogies to Prius UK Owners?

Even in their wording of the brake problem, they still insist it is only a sensation (like magic and feels like a short flight) and is not really a problem. An extra 2-3 or even 4 meter of extra stopping distance would mean I would have hit another car and had an accident that night, which was not a sensation or magic feeling but an actual problem that will results to crashes and injuries. I believe I have made it very clear that if that night there was another car on the other Lane or at that roundabout I would have crash right into it with no time to react at all. Lukcy enough for my fast relexes or just nature, I made a very sharp turn that even woke my wife who was sitting next to me on the passager side. She gave me a look as if I was driving like a maniac but I was just breaking a cold sweat that I didn't hit anyone or any car that was parked close to the roundabout and luckly there was no cars around.

I have been lied to by Toyota GB HQ and if they upset me more I will go to the press to show to how they lie so blatantly, and make you feel like we are all fools and as if we are wrong for thinking their Toyota cars can have faults. Lie or cover up whatever you call it, is a shame they decided to take this route even after the Toyota chief said Toyota's customers are first and priority. I don't feel we have been put first or being priotised when the fix have been implemented in the 2010 Prius's production line but our Prius before 2010 are being ignored?

What is there to investigate? They knew the problem and the fix have been implemented in the new Prius that rolled off the factories after 2010. Are they playing us around? Yes.

[Fujisan]

Most of my replies are made in Priuschat

I read them :(

Having a go at ever helpful 'Ken from Japan' wasn't very nice. <_<

Even in their wording of the brake problem, they still insist it is only a sensation (like magic and feels like a short flight) and is not really a problem. An extra 2-3 or even 4 meter of extra stopping distance would mean I would have hit another car and had an accident that night

Even 4 metres is less than one Prius car length. Are you really routinely travelling that close to the cars in front of you?

This characteristic lasts for just a fraction of a second. Do the maths, at 20 mph, you are travelling at approximately 8.3 m/s.

So if you think this characteristic, adds 2 or 3 metres to your stopping distance, then it is occurring over about one third of a second at 20 mph. Your foot hasn't even had time to come off the brake pedal before it's over!

I understand you might be frustrated by Toyota UK, Toyota worldwide, put I would rather have Toyota take their time and completely test any software update they add to 2009 Prius's. I'm sorry I don't know a great deal about programme writing and I would imagine for the 2010 cars they are producing they re-wrote the whole programme to intergrate it in completely. Something they cannot do with our cars and for one I would like to know any add-on update isn't going to cause other problems in the future.

Has I said I know why you're upset but screaming and shouting never achieved anything.

[Chris Dance]

hsiaolc If you consider your car so dangerous that it is going to cause you to have an accident and you are not pleased with it may I suggest you take it to your dealer with all your complaints and negotiate a part exchange for a car you consider will satisfy your safety needs. If I had a car and I truly thought there was a fault on it which could cause me to crash I would not keep that car.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

While I/we acknowledge its hard to class it as dangerous and the media are blowing it all out of proportion, so long as Toyota acknowledge this 'glitch' exits and will look at the best way of implementing the software change onto pre Jan UK cars...I will be happy.

Hear hear too - esp the last part.

[hsiaolc]

Most of my replies are made in Priuschat

I read them :(

Having a go at ever helpful 'Ken from Japan' wasn't very nice. <_<

Even in their wording of the brake problem, they still insist it is only a sensation (like magic and feels like a short flight) and is not really a problem. An extra 2-3 or even 4 meter of extra stopping distance would mean I would have hit another car and had an accident that night

Even 4 metres is less than one Prius car length. Are you really routinely travelling that close to the cars in front of you? Braking is all about feeling. Are there any instruments on the dash board telling you how hard you should be breaking? No. If the car some how confuses your braking judement then thats a problem even when mechanically the brake doesn't have a problem. In the UK roads are extremely narrow and that extra meter is important.

This characteristic lasts for just a fraction of a second. Do the maths, at 20 mph, you are travelling at approximately 8.3 m/s.

So if you think this characteristic, adds 2 or 3 metres to your stopping distance, then it is occurring over about one third of a second at 20 mph. Your foot hasn't even had time to come off the brake pedal before it's over!

I understand you might be frustrated by Toyota UK, Toyota worldwide, put I would rather have Toyota take their time and completely test any software update they add to 2009 Prius's. I'm sorry I don't know a great deal about programme writing and I would imagine for the 2010 cars they are producing they re-wrote the whole programme to intergrate it in completely. Something they cannot do with our cars and for one I would like to know any add-on update isn't going to cause other problems in the future.

Has I said I know why you're upset but screaming and shouting never achieved anything.

If you thought that having a go at Ken wasn't very nice than that is your preception. I personally think he wasn't very nice so I retaliated. Just because you write something back in the forum doesn't mean he is being nice. Just like you werent very nice with you first post either but thats life isn't it? I am not here to make you like me I am here trying to voice the problem or Prius owners. I don't see why WE should be treated this way.

As for 4 meters issue. I don't know if you drive at all. But when we make a left turn here at a roundabout the distance between you and the car is less than half a meter. 4 meter extra will make a crash and I do not wish to waste anymore time to someone who thinks that 4 meter extra stopping time when you are near stand still is not an issue. It takes a split seconds and sometimes that extra distance for an acccident to happen.

And to other readers saying why don't I seek alternatives such as getting rid of my car? Yes I have taken that route. I have went to Honda already and in the process of taking action. But I will wait to sell this car untill this issue is resolved with the manner I feel it is appropriate from Toyota HQ.

And to be very frank with you. We've already sufferend enough lies and decept from Toyota, we, Prius owners does not need someoen else trying to defend them let alone trying to defend them with not much of a sense.

[hsiaolc]

While I/we acknowledge its hard to class it as dangerous and the media are blowing it all out of proportion, so long as Toyota acknowledge this 'glitch' exits and will look at the best way of implementing the software change onto pre Jan UK cars...I will be happy.

Hear hear too - esp the last part.

Same here. But with an appology like they have appologised to all the other Toyota owners who has accelerating problems. In every metro since Thursday they have had an full page appologie letter to Toyota owners whith accelerating problems and I expect them the same for Prius now since they denied it since August 2009.

[Fujisan]

If you thought that having a go at Ken wasn't very nice than that is your preception. I personally think he wasn't very nice so I retaliated.

So sad :(

Just because you write something back in the forum doesn't mean he is being nice. Just like you werent very nice with you first post either but thats life isn't it? I am not here to make you like me I am here trying to voice the problem or Prius owners. I don't see why WE should be treated this way.

As for 4 meters issue. I don't know if you drive at all.

Oh yes

I wouldn't like to count up how many miles over the years.

But when we make a left turn here at a roundabout the distance between you and the car is less than half a meter.

At what speed?

4 meter extra will make a crash and I do not wish to waste anymore time to someone who thinks that 4 meter extra stopping time when you are near stand still is not an issue.

Has I think I explained earlier if you are at a crawling speed (ie near stand still) you are using just the hydrulic brakes anyway. This 'problem' cannot possibly happen just on hydraulic brakes at very low speed. It is the transition from regenerative braking to hydraulic braking that is the critical phase.

It takes a split seconds and sometimes that extra distance for an acccident to happen.

And I think I am right in saying if you run into the back of someone else, insurance companies always lay the blame at your door for not leaving enough space.

And to other readers saying why don't I seek alternatives such as getting rid of my car? Yes I have taken that route. I have went to Honda already and in the process of taking action. But I will wait to sell this car untill this issue is resolved with the manner I feel it is appropriate from Toyota HQ.

Can I helpful suggest you check the VOSA website for recalls /problems on your intented Honda.

Good luck and happy, safe motoring

And to be very frank with you. We've already sufferend enough lies and decept from Toyota, we, Prius owners does not need someoen else trying to defend them let alone trying to defend them with not much of a sense.

Yeah, me mum always say's I don't have the sense I was born with!

[fuel miser]

Can I helpful suggest you check the VOSA website for recalls /problems on your intented Honda.

Good luck and happy, safe motoring

What, Honda have a recall? Never!!!!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1248932/

[Chris Dance]

I also hope the brake problem gets resolved. I thought TOYOTA PR had clarified the issue for all Prius owners on this thread. They have stated the car is safe to drive. However, I still think it should be safety first and anyone who thinks their Prius is unsafe to drive should contact their dealer with their concerns or write to Toyota customer care ASAP. If enough folk did this then I am sure Toyota would do their best to solve the problem fairly quickly.

[elliotsdad]

As for 4 meters issue. I don't know if you drive at all. But when we make a left turn here at a roundabout the distance between you and the car is less than half a meter.

Do I understand this sentence correctly?! Please enlighten me if not, but I'm as impatient as the next man, but I NEVER drive within about 2 metres of the car in front, let alone half a meter, whether I'm about to turn at a roundabout or not - even when I've stopped!! If someone were driving within half a meter behind me I would be seriously worried.

I'm sure anyone who has experienced a fraction of a second of apparent loss of braking would be freaked out - and I think I have, though I'm not sure if it's the same as everyone is saying) but it really wasn't a big deal and as most sensible drivers would do, I have simply put this down to the way the car handles and to be honest, my driving style doesn't seem to be inducive to this phenomenon. I haven't really noticed anything out of the ordinary and I have driven over many speed humps.