Newbie Only Owned Rav For A Week

[aitaylor]

Hello everyone.

I bought a 2002 Rav4 d4d a week ago, I noticed a bit of vibrationon tickover when I road tested but just put it down to needing a service. On the way home I was getting vibration in 5th gear about 2000-2500rpm, after reading about the DMF on here I decided to take it to the main dealer for a checkover, they diagnosed the flywheel problem, so this morning I took the car back to the dealer and got my money back. The wife loved the Rav to bits but doesnt want another incase we have the same problem again. This leads me to the questions - did they fix the problem with later diesel models? are there any major problems to look out for on the petrol Ravs of about the same age, and what is the MPG like on the petrols? Any advise would be great as we would like another Rav, just a bit scared of being bitten twice.

[anchorman]

Welcome to the club.

As far as we know they have fixed the dmf's on the 2006 models and onward with the 2.2 diesel and you needn't assume that all of the 2.0 D4Ds are affected. The petrols are pretty well bomb proof apart from the odd oxygen sensor and I would expect you will get typically 30mpg rising to high 30s on a trip.

[pmb]

The Rav diesel is not the only car to have suffered with dmf issues. As the tv star (it's an in joke as he was on tele recently) says the oxygen sensor can (and do) go but once again I expect that affects other makes. I've also had a water pump go but that's about it in 7.5 years with mine. I get 27mpg locally but over 30 on a run so it's not great I have to admit.

[Ravmania]

I'm shortly to pay for my 53 D-4D and its nice new flywheel/clutch. Even though they 'fixed' the issue on post August 02 models, the issue is clearly exactly the same as pre August 02 models so we can see how much trust to have in what Toyota the manufacturer tell us.

Having spent quite some time perusing the forums and reading the countless entries by the masses of disappointed people I would say it is 100% inevitable that the flywheel will go on any 2.0 d-4d, and probably the same period Avensis diesels too. It maybe a little early to tell on more recent models but you'd hope they'd !Removed! well done something about it by now although judging by the queues of people getting their recall work done I don't think I would hold much trust in Toyota's quality control at the moment.

Diesels will only get about 10-15% more mpg than a petrol (I average 40mpg but do a lot of motorway driving) and petrol has usually been about 10% cheaper although its swings and roundabouts. Once you factor in a DMF there is no question for me that a petrol would make more sense.

I have also replaced the SCV's which also seems like an inevitable failure so my Rav has so far cost me over £2k in repairs.

Landrovers were about £2k cheaper at the time I bought mine but I was put off by the problems?! I think I could have coped with the problems and had the £2k in contingency had I know the Toyota brand no longer held the same guarantee of quality control it once seemed to.

If I could go back in time I would have no doubt about getting a petrol. I got 30k out of my RAV before the DMF started playing up and I knew it was a risk before buying it but having read the forums I was under the distinct impression that plenty of vehicles would probably never suffer dmf failure, I think this is a little unrealistic and am still waiting for the hoards of poeple who have done 70k+ in a 4.2 diesel and not suffered dmf failure to post up and let us know that we are the minority.

Despite this I still think the rav is a fantastic car although I may have to consider selling it once the new DMF is fitted, I have other things I want to do with my cash other than support the Toyota parts and servicing industry.

If I were you I wouldn't go back to the same dealer though, there is no doubt they would know the signs of dmf failure and if they did any pre sales checks they would have spotted this so it looks like they may have sold this knowingly to you. Regardless of any exchange policies they may have the car was clearly not fit for purpose and a full refund should not be a matter of contention.

Hope it works out and glad you spotted it early enough.

[Plutus]

I'm getting 28 out of my petrol auto.

It's a great vehicle - good on motorway, good for normal cruising, good in town, very good in the snow and can do offroad if necessary.

Oh, and we take the back seats out and use it as a van when we need to.

[aitaylor]

Cheers for all the info chaps, Ive been looking at other 4x4s of similar value - x-trail etc.. and it looks like they all suffer from various problems, The Rav petrols seem to get glowing reports from everybody, just wish I had done my homework earlier. Im now on the look out for a VX 5 door petrol. Just out of interest what sort of cost are the oxygen sensors when they go wrong?

[Hoovie]

Welcome to the club.

As far as we know they have fixed the dmf's on the 2006 models and onward with the 2.2 diesel and you needn't assume that all of the 2.0 D4Ds are affected. The petrols are pretty well bomb proof apart from the odd oxygen sensor and I would expect you will get typically 30mpg rising to high 30s on a trip.

I have to say that I have to drive very steadily (aka slowly) to average over 30mpg with my 2005 VVT-i petrol. I think the tank is 11 gallons and if I can get 330 miles out of a tank on one of my long trips (400+ miles in a oner) then I am pretty happy (well, not happy, but you know what I mean!). 

Round town and local roads, maybe average low to mid 30's but soon as you go over 65MPH the brick aerodynamics take over

The Petrol RAV4 is a very nice drive but if you are going to be looking for economy, forget it 

[Ravmania]

I'm getting 28 out of my petrol auto.

It's a great vehicle - good on motorway, good for normal cruising, good in town, very good in the snow and can do offroad if necessary.

Oh, and we take the back seats out and use it as a van when we need to.

Yep, all very true, awesome in the snow, and being able to whip the back seats out in a couple of minutes and put them back just as easily has been extremely handy.

Also very comfy.

[Bristim]

Another vote for the old style Petrol RAV - useful, flexible and good for everything we have asked it to do. Personally I reckon petrol beats diesel for performance / economy (on cost) and cleanliness round the town, but loses on long runs.

Had the oxygen sensor go - costs a couple of hundred quid at a main dealer to fix - apart from that no issues in 6 years.

Mine has done 120mph for a day on the Autobahn, driven through 1/2 metre snow on the Ukraine border, the family car, removal truck, improvised camper and stylish car round the UK and Europe since new - don't know what I would replace it with yet!

[redlew]

This is my first diesel and I'm a convert. Much much better mpg, no spark plugs to change and I don't care how long 0-60 takes. I'll be looking to tow a trailer soon so the extra torque will be useful. "I would say it is 100% inevitable that the flywheel will go on any 2.0 d-4d, and probably the same period Avensis diesels too" -sorry but 100% inevitable is nonsense.

[Ravmania]

"sorry but 100% inevitable is nonsense" - okay find me some people who have done 70/80/90k plus and had no flywheel failure, I dare you to restore my faith!!!

Are you speaking from experience, do you have a 2.0 d-4d and how many miles have you done?

Dismissing something as nonsense is great, works really well on kids, but doesn't speak from experience or fact - I'm going from anecdotal evidence and personal experience of course and not a scientific poll of rav 4 owners but I'd love to see the results of one. Anecdotal as it maybe it is a little more fact based than a dismissive 'nonsense' - the 45,000 plus people who have viewed the dmf thread and the 16 pages of posts is a fair indication of how serious and widespread the problem is.

I'd love you to provide me with some counter balancing experiences as many many poor folk on the forums have suffered with it and I've been waiting for a year or more for at least one person who is tootling around in their 70/80k plus D-4D who hasn't sufferd dmf failure, I'd really like to hear from someone who has done over 100k and not suffered from it. I would have no doubt there'll be the odd lucky chap knocking about somewhere, come on speak up you lucky robust DMF folk so that those of us who are £2 grand out of pocket can know we are just the very unlucky minority!

[MarsKy]

So...

I had been meaning to ask, who has the highest mileage D-4D/ D-CAT and what has been the biggest maintenance costs with it (non-consumables, but I'm now not sure if the flywheel is now to be regarded as a "consumable")?

[redlew]

"sorry but 100% inevitable is nonsense" - okay find me some people who have done 70/80/90k plus and had no flywheel failure, I dare you to restore my faith!!!

Are you speaking from experience, do you have a 2.0 d-4d and how many miles have you done?

Dismissing something as nonsense is great, works really well on kids, but doesn't speak from experience or fact - I'm going from anecdotal evidence and personal experience of course and not a scientific poll of rav 4 owners but I'd love to see the results of one. Anecdotal as it maybe it is a little more fact based than a dismissive 'nonsense' - the 45,000 plus people who have viewed the dmf thread and the 16 pages of posts is a fair indication of how serious and widespread the problem is.

I'd love you to provide me with some counter balancing experiences as many many poor folk on the forums have suffered with it and I've been waiting for a year or more for at least one person who is tootling around in their 70/80k plus D-4D who hasn't sufferd dmf failure, I'd really like to hear from someone who has done over 100k and not suffered from it. I would have no doubt there'll be the odd lucky chap knocking about somewhere, come on speak up you lucky robust DMF folk so that those of us who are £2 grand out of pocket can know we are just the very unlucky minority!

Yup I've a diesel per "This is my first diesel and I'm a convert." If you go through the thread "Dual mass flywheels-discusson thread" you will find contributions from Kingo which include "We have to keep this in perspective. Whilst there are many on here who have had a DMF failure, it is by no means a common problem. I sell (or rather the company) sells, over £2M worth of parts per year, and out of that maybe a handful of DMF's It isnt something that happens to every RAV, but you are much more likely to hear of one fail on the forum, it is the nature of forums, especially with regard to the price of the job. People are peeved off when having to spend £1500 on an engine repair, I dont blame them, I would be peeved as well but you have to keep in mind the number of RAV's on the road compared to the number of failures. I dont know what the failure rate is but I suspect it is very low. Toyota are not the only manufacturer with DMF failures, there are plenty out there with similar stories." "Not every RAV suffers from DMF failure, its a bit of a lottery unfortunatly. " "I have mentioned in previous posts the likelyhood of DMF failure, to be honest, the amount of failures is tiny, but because of the costs involved, you are most likely to read about it. It is several months since I sold one, and we have only sold 4 all year, from a dealership that sells nearly 1000 new cars per year across two sites, translate that into a National figure and the numbers will be a very small percentage of sales that have the problem."

The two certainties in life are death and taxes -not DMF failure. (Fingers crossed).

[aitaylor]

Thanks everybody for their replys, :) I am now on the hunt for a 5 door petrol Rav, I would like leather so I guess i would need to go for another VX model, that leads me to yet more questions sorry, the newer xt3/4 dont seem to have leather, but what would be the advantage of buying an xt over a VX model? (I know the front bumper is a bit different but dont mind either) and are the engines the same?

[Plutus]

Parkers ususally list which extras each model variant has.

The XTR has a few extras (VSC, Climate control) but still get cloth seats.

I think the engines stayed the same.