Rav4 Intermittant Fault. Engine Management.

[windy100]

I have a 2004 RAV D4D which has on 3 or 4 occasions broken down on exactly the same piece of road. Its a slight incline when you are accelerating out of a 40mph limit onto a 70mph piece of dual carraige way. The engine management light comes on and you loose all power and have to drift to a halt. You then restart the car and it runs fine.

It has been into Toyota and an independant - neither can find anything wrong.

Any clues?

[hound dog]

I have a 2004 RAV D4D which has on 3 or 4 occasions broken down on exactly the same piece of road. Its a slight incline when you are accelerating out of a 40mph limit onto a 70mph piece of dual carraige way. The engine management light comes on and you loose all power and have to drift to a halt. You then restart the car and it runs fine.

It has been into Toyota and an independant - neither can find anything wrong.

Any clues?

I dont know what the cause but your not alone mine dose this ever 2 or three weeks and when checked they just shake there heads saying there nothing wrong now !!!!

[igormus]

I have a 2004 RAV D4D which has on 3 or 4 occasions broken down on exactly the same piece of road. Its a slight incline when you are accelerating out of a 40mph limit onto a 70mph piece of dual carraige way. The engine management light comes on and you loose all power and have to drift to a halt. You then restart the car and it runs fine.

It has been into Toyota and an independant - neither can find anything wrong.

Any clues?

hi mate

check with:

EGR

T/C

SCV

Cheers/Igor

[anchorman]

.........and vsv.

[Graeme D]

Hi, we have the same problem and garage suggested it could be a cabling loom fault - did not believe them so I did not take it back. We have noticed the same symptoms but only when the outside temperature is below 5 - will have too look at the points already raised and ask the question to you all is it when the outside temperature is low?

Graeme

[hound dog]

Hi, we have the same problem and garage suggested it could be a cabling loom fault - did not believe them so I did not take it back. We have noticed the same symptoms but only when the outside temperature is below 5 - will have too look at the points already raised and ask the question to you all is it when the outside temperature is low?

Graeme

hi there mine cut out when cold as well but it has not done so since the temp as got better

[dogdirt]

Hi, I had exactly the same on a couple of occasions, especially when the outside air temp was below about 5C and within a mile of my home.

Took it into my Toyota dealer and they ran a diagnostic and said it was due to 'excessive turbo pressure'.

They basically said not to put my foot down too hard when accelerating, especially uphill (precisely where the problem kept occurring!) and they stressed 'always drop down a gear when you want to overtake someone' and 'putting your foot down too hard when the engine is doing less than 2000 revs can damage the turbo'.

When I said that I had been driving for over 40 years, the last 12 in turbo diesels and have never had this problem before, they said that it was a function of the ECU to protect the engine from excessive pressure in the cylinders. I asked if it could be switched off and they said they could, but it would invalidate any warranty I had and could also cause the engine to fail completely.

I mentioned that I'd recently had the DMF changed in my 'modified' 05 RAV4 at 43000 miles, fortunately at the expense of Warranty Direct, and this problem had never happened before this was done. They said that was probably just a coincidence.

Anyway, I didn't hit the mechanic for treating me like a moron, but I said I would drive more gently and see what happens.

Strangely enough, since I have deliberately driven a bit more gently and done as he suggested, it hasn't happened again.

Fingers crossed,

Mr. Moron.

:censor: :censor: :censor:

[Alex-malta]

I have a 2004 RAV D4D which has on 3 or 4 occasions broken down on exactly the same piece of road. Its a slight incline when you are accelerating out of a 40mph limit onto a 70mph piece of dual carraige way. The engine management light comes on and you loose all power and have to drift to a halt. You then restart the car and it runs fine.

It has been into Toyota and an independant - neither can find anything wrong.

Any clues?

hi mate

check with:

EGR

T/C

SCV

Cheers/Igor

Hi.

Unfotunately I have been experiencing the same problem. I have Replaced the SCV valves to no avail. I have also dismanteled the egr valve and the turbo and gave them a through cleaning. I have followed the checks on the vsv valve, as per a post by Anchorman. Air has passed in the opposite direction so i think that part needs replacing. The funny thing about this issue is that when I clear the faultcodes the car runs perfectly fine for a couple of weeks until the problem repeats itself. I would understand that if a part were defective the car would not run properly even I the codes are cleared. could it be the ECU??

thanks for you help

alex

[Dave & Christine]

Hi,

Just had the same fault on my 53 Rav whilst towing my caravan, its done 102000 miles, the AA came out to it and reset the engine fault and they said it was TURBO Over Pressure and they said that the turbo might need replacing? just got it back from the garage and they found the EGR valve was stuck so they cleaned it out and sent me on my way.... hope it dosen't come back again when i'm towing in the future. Working fine at the moment, will keep you posted if it comes back.

Dave

[saffron]

Hi,

Just had the same fault on my 53 Rav whilst towing my caravan, its done 102000 miles, the AA came out to it and reset the engine fault and they said it was TURBO Over Pressure and they said that the turbo might need replacing? just got it back from the garage and they found the EGR valve was stuck so they cleaned it out and sent me on my way.... hope it dosen't come back again when i'm towing in the future. Working fine at the moment, will keep you posted if it comes back.

Dave

Hi Anchorman

In my ongoing quest to find the cause of this all too common problem, I undid the two bolts that secure the vacuum bellows assembly on the turbo to see if all was working correctly there.

I found that the lever which I think operates the variable vanes on the turbo, sticks in the “down” position, presumably holding the vanes closed. It requires quite a bit of effort to pull it up to free it after which it moves smoothly up to the stop screw.

However, when I bolt the bellows assembly back, the connecting rod forces the lever back down to its sticking position. (I have not made any adjustments to the factory setting of this rod or stop screw)

The vacuum bellows work ok when you suck on the pipe but I don’t think in normal operation there would be sufficient vacuum to “unstick” the lever which, if my thinking is correct, would hold the vanes shut thus producing too much boost at higher revs and the engine defaulting to limp mode.

If this assumption is right and the lever should move freely throughout its travel any thoughts on what could cause it to stick and how to cure it?

Thanks in advance for any guidance

[anchorman]

Have a look at the attached pdf which is actually for the 4.3 but shows it quite nicely. You will see that the flow of bypass gas is controlled by the unison ring which controls the vanes. I presume this ring is clogged up or worn. When I have fiddled in the past they have been free so all I can suggest is that with the bellow off, you either squirt it with WD40 while you work it or remove it completely and clean it with carb cleaner.

I hope this helps.

Turbo operation.pdf

[saffron]

Have a look at the attached pdf which is actually for the 4.3 but shows it quite nicely. You will see that the flow of bypass gas is controlled by the unison ring which controls the vanes. I presume this ring is clogged up or worn. When I have fiddled in the past they have been free so all I can suggest is that with the bellow off, you either squirt it with WD40 while you work it or remove it completely and clean it with carb cleaner.

I hope this helps.

Turbo operation.pdf

Anchorman,

Many thanks. The pdf is a great help in understanding how the turbo nozzeles work. With the lever in the "up" position the vanes are open, and closed in the "down" position which is the opposite of what I thought. With the engine idling and the bellows assembly unbolted to manually pull up and free the lever fom its "stuck" position, the vacuum sucks up the connecting rod to close the nozzles as stated in the pdf. Rev the engine (or remove the vacuum pipe) and the lever goes back to the "down" position opening the nozzles, also as per the pdf.

However, despite working the lever maunually back and forth with lubricant for many minutes, it still sticks down keeping the nozzles permanently open when re-assembled. I think this might be the cause of the problem but I am hesitant to remove the turbo to clean it as I am not sure how to proceed. Is there a procedure posted somewhere for this?

[anchorman]

turbo remove.pdf

Be careful! This shows you how to get it off in case you can get hold of another. I would urge you to consider very carefully pulling it apart without the very special tools needed or access to a stand by. Refitting is pretty much a reversal of the removing and if you haven't got any new gaskets have some exhaust sealant on stand by. Its a bit tight down the back of the engine so ramps will be useful. I cant remember how much you can get at with it on but I would try first. Everything will be tight and rusty.

Good luck.

[saffron]

turbo remove.pdf

Be careful! This shows you how to get it off in case you can get hold of another. I would urge you to consider very carefully pulling it apart without the very special tools needed or access to a stand by. Refitting is pretty much a reversal of the removing and if you haven't got any new gaskets have some exhaust sealant on stand by. Its a bit tight down the back of the engine so ramps will be useful. I cant remember how much you can get at with it on but I would try first. Everything will be tight and rusty.

Good luck.

Thanks Anchorman,

From the information you provided I think that removing and stripping the turbo is a bit beyond my capabilities so I guess I will have to go to the main dealer for a quote to have it done. Before I do, can it do any damage to remove the air intake to the turbo and squirting carb cleaner in with (or without)the engine running?

[anchorman]

turbo remove.pdf

Be careful! This shows you how to get it off in case you can get hold of another. I would urge you to consider very carefully pulling it apart without the very special tools needed or access to a stand by. Refitting is pretty much a reversal of the removing and if you haven't got any new gaskets have some exhaust sealant on stand by. Its a bit tight down the back of the engine so ramps will be useful. I cant remember how much you can get at with it on but I would try first. Everything will be tight and rusty.

Good luck.

Thanks Anchorman,

From the information you provided I think that removing and stripping the turbo is a bit beyond my capabilities so I guess I will have to go to the main dealer for a quote to have it done. Before I do, can it do any damage to remove the air intake to the turbo and squirting carb cleaner in with (or without)the engine running?

No I wouldn't squirt carb cleaner into a running diesel unless it states clearly it is OK to do so on the tin. It could prove a bit too volatile and cause engine damage. I can't remember the last time I had one in bits just how much you can see but I can see no reason why you should squirt the carb cleaner in and clean as much as you can then mop out all the residue (the rest will evapourate in minutes).

I have to say that with your car I would tend to go to a good independant gargae rather than a main dealer unless they tell you they are going to try freeing it first. The most efficient way for them to fix it normally is new parts and trust me that will cost you.

[ravie4]

Hi everyone,

Just joined your site and we are having the same problems with our RAV4.

It is a 2004 d-4d 5door xt4 which my wife has had since new. It has been regularly serviced, by toyota until 70,000 miles.

At 64,000 miles the same fault was occuring with our car. It only happened at just below 2,000 rpm when we hit a hill and were in 5th gear. When slightly more accelerator was applied there seems to be a slight hesitation and then the engine warning light came on. Resets when you switch off and then on.

When I looked at the air filter it was totally black and looked like it had never been changed!, (even though it had main dealer service) so I replaced filter and cleaned MAF sensor (totally black).

Seemed to do the job.

At 68,000 miles flywheel disintergrated, £1,200 repair bill at independent. Toyotas price £2,000.

Now at 88,000 miles intermittant engine light comes on again, same conditions as above, 5th gear only, uphill, light throttle, 2,000 rpm.

I took it for diagnostic reading at Toyota main dealer who diagnosed (£75 later) turbo overboost. The service manager thinks it needs a new turbo but refused to qoute repair estimate and, seriously, suggested just getting rid of the car as it will work out as too expensive. Did not want to entertain on how to fix the car.

So, I have done a full service, replaced fuel filter, (looks as though as this has never been replaced either), injector clean, 10K boost, new MAF sensor as this seemed to do the job last time and I must admit the engine performs and pulls better than ever, even like new.

However the problem is still there and varies on the frequency it occurs. I do not think the turbo itself is faulty as the engine code is again overboost and it only occurs when you ask the engine to deliver more power. What next, vsv? Do you have a link an how to check this and where it is, etc.

Would a Haynes manual contain all this information?

[anchorman]

Welcome to the club.

I have never found the Haynes manuals any good but there is a new one with the diesel and I haven't seen it. I prefer to look online at the Toyota manuals which you can do for 3 euro per hour.

The VSV is just to the left of the air filter on a bracket on the end of the engine;

vsv layout.pdf

and here are the test instructions;

vsv.pdf

It sometimes sticks so take it off and squirt a little WD40 into the inlets and give it a good shake so you can hear the shutlle moving back and too.

[ravie4]

Thankyou anchorman,

I'll look at this part this weekend.

[ravie4]

hi,

just to update everyone, it appears that the vsv is faulty. Even after wd40, I still can not hear or feel the internal shuttle moving. When voltage was applied it was not working correctly. I will order another part tomorrow and hopefully this will resolve the problem.

I note that some other people are having the same problem and have mentioned that it was happening when the weather was cold. That was the initial problem with our car which led me to believe it was a faulty MAF sensor (more dense air giving overboost, which is the fault code). With time it started happening in all weather conditions. I will let you know if the fault is still there after fitting the new part. Hopefully my experience will help others.

Thanks.

[mickwitch]

Welcome to the club.

I have never found the Haynes manuals any good but there is a new one with the diesel and I haven't seen it. I prefer to look online at the Toyota manuals which you can do for 3 euro per hour.

The VSV is just to the left of the air filter on a bracket on the end of the engine;

vsv layout.pdf

and here are the test instructions;

vsv.pdf

It sometimes sticks so take it off and squirt a little WD40 into the inlets and give it a good shake so you can hear the shutlle moving back and too.

hi im having a simualar problem an ive looked at your diagrams an im getting air flowing from port e to g do i need a new vsv? thank you

[*srjp*]

I have the same problem too, it's happened about five times now,always in the cold when 'making good progress' uphill. Unfortunately in the alps here it tends to be cold quite a lot, and everything is uphill 50% of the time so I guess I should be glad it's only happened five times...

Cleaned the EGR valve out last week (thanks due to the author of the guide for doing that) but it happened again last night anyway, so on to the next thing on the list - that would be the VSV yes?...

[Dando89]

Hi everyone.

I know this is quite an old post but my dad is having the same problem as you describe. he could be going down the motorway and suddenly the engine cuts out. loosing all power. he says that it seems to happen on longer trips and when he gets over 75MPH. but the symptoms are the same what what everyone is saying.

also the car was not very happy at reving over 3000RPM as in it wouldn't

in a bid to see if it was being under fueld i purchased a ProBitz Chip that plugs in to the common rail (that was a P in the A to get to and plug in) now he has been able to rev over 3000RPM and the problem isnt happening as much now, but i think what we have done is to mask the problem and not fix it.

the car has done 130000 miles but still pulls well. we have purchased some high mileage fuel additive (REDEX) so going to see if this helps in any way.

does anyone have a diagram to show me where the EGR and VSV are located so i can have a look to see if they are functioning?

thanks

[Tech01]

This lengthy and on-going thread would appear to apply to D4Ds, 4.2 variety. I've had the same fault (about 2-3 years ago) . . . welly it uphill for a more than 30secs or so (in 3rd, 4th or 5th), and the engine management light would come on, and go into limp mode. Quickly reset by switching engine off, and restarting.

In my case, the oxidation cat was heavily blocked (sooted up, even on good quality fuel), presumably causing over-pressure further back. To establish this, simply remove the exhaust (first box and everything rearward) and test-drive the car. (It's amazingly quiet, because the turbo smooths out the exhaust pulses.) If all drives well, then you have a blocked oxidation cat. Replace it (expensive), or remove its contents.

I've had one minor recurrence of the fault, which was cleared by cleaning the oxygen/temperature sensor on top of the air cleaner (unplug, unscrew, withdraw, and spray carefully with contact cleaner or similar to remove dirt on the coils), and renewing the fuel filter (precautionary move). Fault had not recurred since.

Chris

[Dando89]

This lengthy and on-going thread would appear to apply to D4Ds, 4.2 variety. I've had the same fault (about 2-3 years ago) . . . welly it uphill for a more than 30secs or so (in 3rd, 4th or 5th), and the engine management light would come on, and go into limp mode. Quickly reset by switching engine off, and restarting.

In my case, the oxidation cat was heavily blocked (sooted up, even on good quality fuel), presumably causing over-pressure further back. To establish this, simply remove the exhaust (first box and everything rearward) and test-drive the car. (It's amazingly quiet, because the turbo smooths out the exhaust pulses.) If all drives well, then you have a blocked oxidation cat. Replace it (expensive), or remove its contents.

I've had one minor recurrence of the fault, which was cleared by cleaning the oxygen/temperature sensor on top of the air cleaner (unplug, unscrew, withdraw, and spray carefully with contact cleaner or similar to remove dirt on the coils), and renewing the fuel filter (precautionary move). Fault had not recurred since.

Chris

So remove just the back box. or all the way back including the CAT?

do you have a picture of where that sensor is?

[Tech01]

Hi Dando,

The cat is the front-most exhaust box (first after the turbo), and easily accessed from under the car (workshop ramp preferably). Unbolt the joint at the input to the cat, and remove the cat complete with the rest of the exhaust. (You'll probably have to separate a joint at the rear box as well.) This leaves the turbo in place, plus a short length of exhaust pipe. Test-drive like this.

Sorry, I don't have a pic of the sensor handy. It's easy to locate - it sits almost on top of the duct leading rearwards from the air-cleaner (engine air filter) box (the part you lift up to remove the filter element).

Chris