1998 1.8 Gs Won't Start (again)

[peterc.lewis@blueyonder.co.uk]

Oh joy! SHe won't start again.

Just to remove any possible red herrings.

Battery is relatively new and appears to hold a good charge, not struggling to turn the motor at all.

Ignition switch issue was resolved with a new one last year.

Recently had starter reconned and she started ok after this.

It now appears that either the immobiliser is stopping the car running or there's no fuel getting through. Tank is at least a quarter full(well according to the guage it is).

Symptoms.

Car turns over (briskly)off the starter switch but does not fire.

No smell of petrol at the exhaust.

Can hear fuel pump "cycling down" when I switch off.

Central locking from key fob may be suspect (off both original keys) though it does seem to be ok now. I've locked and unlocked a number of times at it works OK, alarm light goes on when locked and goes back off when unlocked.

The only thing I can think I've done differently is that I locked the car using the key fob yesterday and unlocked with the fob. I don't usually do this as I've had to disconnect the alarm siren (ages ago) because of the usual corrosion issue. Ran OK after this and I had started and stopped a number of times. This morning NOTHING!

HELP!

Please note this was also posted in the MR2 forum in error.

[igormus]

Oh joy! SHe won't start again.

Just to remove any possible red herrings.

Battery is relatively new and appears to hold a good charge, not struggling to turn the motor at all.

Ignition switch issue was resolved with a new one last year.

Recently had starter reconned and she started ok after this.

It now appears that either the immobiliser is stopping the car running or there's no fuel getting through. Tank is at least a quarter full(well according to the guage it is).

Symptoms.

Car turns over (briskly)off the starter switch but does not fire.

No smell of petrol at the exhaust.

Can hear fuel pump "cycling down" when I switch off.

Central locking from key fob may be suspect (off both original keys) though it does seem to be ok now. I've locked and unlocked a number of times at it works OK, alarm light goes on when locked and goes back off when unlocked.

The only thing I can think I've done differently is that I locked the car using the key fob yesterday and unlocked with the fob. I don't usually do this as I've had to disconnect the alarm siren (ages ago) because of the usual corrosion issue. Ran OK after this and I had started and stopped a number of times. This morning NOTHING!

HELP!

Please note this was also posted in the MR2 forum in error.

hi Peter

theh only thing in my heada is that fuel filter might be blocked cos you did not feel a smell from exh tail pipe.

i conside you should start yr investigation from that. Check with el control circuit for fuel pump + what are attachments to this scheme to evaluate possible faults. Good Luck + post result

Igor

[peterc.lewis@blueyonder.co.uk]

Thanks for that response.

I do not have a diagnostic reader, is it still possible to read the messages ? I seem to remember using a bent paperclip and counting out the flashes on the engine management light with previous cars .

Thanks again.

[igormus]

Thanks for that response.

I do not have a diagnostic reader, is it still possible to read the messages ? I seem to remember using a bent paperclip and counting out the flashes on the engine management light with previous cars .

Thanks again.

Peter

the gold statement is " you have either no steam or the engine is faulty" -- conside it

you can also have all spark plugs screwed out just to feel or not petrol smell in the cylinders -- if such will be confirmed then investigate el control circuit for el pump inside the tank. Cheers/Igor

[peterc.lewis@blueyonder.co.uk]

Checked the filter and petrol is getting through.

Checked the spark plugs and they were wet with petrol. Smell of petrol from the cylinders.

This may be due to me and my wife being heavy with the right foot pumping it too much.

So it looks electrical then , ahh! No!

I've disconnected the Battery and left the plugs out to let the engine vent overnight.

I'll try again in the morning.

Assuming she does not start Igor, what do you reckon my next step is?

It's annoying as she was running fine when I parked her up last night.

Thank you again for your input, it is greatly appreciated.

Peter.

[igormus]

Checked the filter and petrol is getting through.

Checked the spark plugs and they were wet with petrol. Smell of petrol from the cylinders.

This may be due to me and my wife being heavy with the right foot pumping it too much.

So it looks electrical then , ahh! No!

I've disconnected the battery and left the plugs out to let the engine vent overnight.

I'll try again in the morning.

Assuming she does not start Igor, what do you reckon my next step is?

It's annoying as she was running fine when I parked her up last night.

Thank you again for your input, it is greatly appreciated.

Peter.

ok it is better now with petrol -- the pump sis in order then -- ok have all spark plugs dried + test all four by tester to prevent current leak. i would recomend to use kitchen oven flame to dry them out + clean with soft brass brush. -- try in the morning again or even after drying out but be sure with over pumping.

now be focuused on allternator working dadta (V etc). The problem is close to you. By the way do you have ignition coil or electronic ignition?

Cheers/Igor

[igormus]

Checked the filter and petrol is getting through.

Checked the spark plugs and they were wet with petrol. Smell of petrol from the cylinders.

This may be due to me and my wife being heavy with the right foot pumping it too much.

So it looks electrical then , ahh! No!

I've disconnected the battery and left the plugs out to let the engine vent overnight.

I'll try again in the morning.

Assuming she does not start Igor, what do you reckon my next step is?

It's annoying as she was running fine when I parked her up last night.

Thank you again for your input, it is greatly appreciated.

Peter.

Peter

onething else ---- yu told no ppetrol smell from tail pipe but petrol is available in the cyls -- what do you thinks with cat/muff blocking????

for any case -- check with condition of air filter element + throttle valve position when cranked.

cheers

[t-spiritpete]

Checked the filter and petrol is getting through.

Checked the spark plugs and they were wet with petrol. Smell of petrol from the cylinders.

This may be due to me and my wife being heavy with the right foot pumping it too much.

So it looks electrical then , ahh! No!

I've disconnected the battery and left the plugs out to let the engine vent overnight.

I'll try again in the morning.

Assuming she does not start Igor, what do you reckon my next step is?

It's annoying as she was running fine when I parked her up last night.

Thank you again for your input, it is greatly appreciated.

Peter.

Hi Peter, have you tried taking sparkplug out of the engine, then connecting the plug back to a HT lead, putting the body of the plug to a metal (earth/ground) part of the engine then turn the engine over on the key and look for a spark, get someone to help doing this. If you have a good spark then it's not electrical.

Regards Pete.

[igormus]

Checked the filter and petrol is getting through.

Checked the spark plugs and they were wet with petrol. Smell of petrol from the cylinders.

This may be due to me and my wife being heavy with the right foot pumping it too much.

So it looks electrical then , ahh! No!

I've disconnected the battery and left the plugs out to let the engine vent overnight.

I'll try again in the morning.

Assuming she does not start Igor, what do you reckon my next step is?

It's annoying as she was running fine when I parked her up last night.

Thank you again for your input, it is greatly appreciated.

Peter.

Peter

please tell where doe you usually park yor car???? in the garage or on the street roaad???

it might be very stupid opinion but sometimes some vandals do plugging of tail pipe by potato or so and the engine can not be started due to contra pressure.

CHek with it as well --Cheers

[peterc.lewis@blueyonder.co.uk]

Thanks again chaps.

I've just checked and the exhaust is not blocked (good point though I once pushed a motorbike 17 miles because of this very fault. When me and my mate took the baffles and kick started it again it nearly killed him as it flew through the air (it was a semi auto stepthrough and was in gear , oops).

I have n't check for a spark at the plug yet. I'll see what happens in the morning and if it still doesn't start will check that. It's currently on the drive with the plugs out.

[marama32]

Hi,

Have you changed the Battery in the key fob recently?

Do you have 1 key or 2?

If 2, try the second key, as this was a problem with a friends Avensis, as the transponder needed re-programming. When he tried to get it to start it would just turn over, but appeared no fuel was getting through. After being in the garage, he was asked for his second key, he gave it to them & it started first time.

There are plenty of posts with the procedure if you have 2 keys & the other key starts your car.

It may not be this, but the simple things are often over looked.

Marv

[peterc.lewis@blueyonder.co.uk]

Couldn't wait till the morning so just ried a restart.

No joy but I do have a spark.

I'm beginning to think cam belt.

[peterc.lewis@blueyonder.co.uk]

I'm reading on google that putting my foot to the floor and cranking the engine may help start a flooded engine. Is this worth a try ?

[igormus]

Couldn't wait till the morning so just ried a restart.

No joy but I do have a spark.

I'm beginning to think cam belt.

Morinng Peter

Now i am a bit confused -- you have both spark and petrol :))))) but it does not work.

I conside it is not good idea wit cam belt -- but you can measure the compression in each cylinder first.

In case all values are in limits then the only way to inspect imobilizer with good specialist. Besides -- what is condition of the cell in your key??? may be this one plays with you? Cheers/Igor

[donnyvfr]

Couldn't wait till the morning so just ried a restart.

No joy but I do have a spark.

I'm beginning to think cam belt.

Morinng Peter

Now i am a bit confused -- you have both spark and petrol :))))) but it does not work.

I conside it is not good idea wit cam belt -- but you can measure the compression in each cylinder first.

In case all values are in limits then the only way to inspect imobilizer with good specialist. Besides -- what is condition of the cell in your key??? may be this one plays with you? Cheers/Igor

would there be a spark if cambelt snapped? you could always take a look under cambelt cover? that easiest way

[igormus]

Couldn't wait till the morning so just ried a restart.

No joy but I do have a spark.

I'm beginning to think cam belt.

Morinng Peter

Now i am a bit confused -- you have both spark and petrol :))))) but it does not work.

I conside it is not good idea wit cam belt -- but you can measure the compression in each cylinder first.

In case all values are in limits then the only way to inspect imobilizer with good specialist. Besides -- what is condition of the cell in your key??? may be this one plays with you? Cheers/Igor

would there be a spark if cambelt snapped? you could always take a look under cambelt cover? that easiest way

there might be issue with two sensors (for crankshaft and camshaft positioning)

cheers/Igor

[Thermal]

Hi,

IMHO it's very unlikely that the cam belt snapped while the car was parked over night.

In order for an engine to run, basically it needs 3 things:

Petrol, air to get an igniteable mixture, and finally a spark.

If there is petrol to the cylinders, sparks, but still no joy, the last thing missing could be AIR which may be difficult to check visually and could be an ECU or sensor failure.

So, if the second key won't start the engine either, I would get someone with a code reader or IT2 device to check it out, to quickly end your frustration.

[peterc.lewis@blueyonder.co.uk]

Thanks everyone. Yes you were right it was not the cam belt. I didn't think it had just snapped over night but I wasn't the one who tried to start the car first so I checked anyway. I appreciate all your comments. She still isn't starting so it might just be time to get someone to read the codes.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

I wil let you know the outcome.

Cheers,

Pete.

[peterc.lewis@blueyonder.co.uk]

How long can I keep the key in start before I risk damaging the starter ?

[t-spiritpete]

How long can I keep the key in start before I risk damaging the starter ?

Hi Peter, with a fully charged Battery 10-15 seconds maximum I would say as you could burn out the starter motor, as the Battery voltage drops under load the current (amps) drawn rises rapidly. Always leave it for a good few minutes before you try again to allow the motor to cool down and the Battery to recover a little but the next time you try with the lower battery voltage available don't crank the engine as long, maybe only 5 seconds.

Regards Pete.

[peterc.lewis@blueyonder.co.uk]

I think the engine is flooded. Plugs were wet when I last took them off. Is it time to just call the RAC out ?

[t-spiritpete]

I think the engine is flooded. Plugs were wet when I last took them off. Is it time to just call the RAC out ?

Maybe it is Peter but a old trick is to heat the plugs up,(the sparking end of course), I would do this with the a blow lamp on low or over the kitchen stove (carefully though) and pop them back in the engine while they are still hot then quickley try starting the car. You could try this after leaving the plugs out of the car overnight to let any fuel evaporate from the cylinders, these are desperate times but don't give up, it's the last chance saloon . PS. The air filter is clean I hope 'cos if it's blocked it will cause a very rich fuel to air mixture wetting the plugs, you could try with the air filter element out.

Pete.

[peterc.lewis@blueyonder.co.uk]

Funny you should mention heating the plugs as I was freezing my filters off in the snow earlier :) I've put the Battery back to charge overnight and taken the plugs out. They are sat on a radiator at the moment to warm them through. I thought about running with the fuel pump disconnected to clear any vapour . It's been !Removed! cold though. I had a look in to the top of the piston down the plug hole and was a little releived to see that there was no pool of petrol there. Having said that it is a 147500 mile car so I doubt the rings would seal well enough to hold petrol back. They did look wet though so if I check in the morning they should hopefully be dry.

I'll give it another go in the morning but I do not have a blow torch and like to use a garden hose to prevent my ham fists from crossing the threads so don't want to get them too hot. I think the fact the were so cold was causing petrol vapour to condense on them. I'll out them in warm.

I did give it a good crank earlier and she seems like she wants to start (getting a bit of caughing and spluttering but no firing).

When I try in the morning should I have my foot to the floor then crank or just try for a normal no foot down start ?

[peterc.lewis@blueyonder.co.uk]

Damn! Still no joy. I'm beggining to think I've missed something so I will recheck the spark plugs tonight as I know fuel is getting through. Took the air filter out to let loads of air through and nothing.

[igormus]

Damn! Still no joy. I'm beggining to think I've missed something so I will recheck the spark plugs tonight as I know fuel is getting through. Took the air filter out to let loads of air through and nothing.

hi Peter

what kind of plugs do you have??? irridium or normal?

check with gaps between central (+) electrode and (-) -- may be you have spark lack due to increased gap/s???

that leads to fuel consumption increasing -- any observations before ???

cheers/Igor