Powershift Energy Grant

[SilverT4]

My 'new' Prius is actually a four week old dealer demonstrator and I wasn't sure if I would be eligible for the £1000 PowerShift grant. However the dealer assured me that the grant had not already been claimed by them and that as far as he was aware I should still get it.

Yesterday he gave me the form which is actually a 10 page document, which includes 6 pages of terms and conditions.

I haven't studied it in detail yet, but there are a couple of conditions that concern me. One says that ' ...... registered by You before 31st March ....." Now as the dealer first registered the car, I suspect that may rule me out. Secondly ".... I confirm that I have paid the full purchase price .....". As the car is a demo, I obviously paid a reduced price, so I guess that also rules me out. However this is an interesting condition as most buyers who don't have a part ex would negotiate some cash discount even if it was only a few pounds and therefore technically will not pay the full price. Alternatively if you do have a part ex, its usual to negotiate a 'price to change' and from my experience the dealers official invoice will 'adjust' the figures and therefore won't show the full retail price of the car.

Anyway I am going to send in my claim form and see what happens, but I don't hold out much hope.

By the way, you also have to keep the car for three years, or are liable to pay back a portion of the grant.

I am sure there are other 'nasties' lurking in the 6 pages of conditions. I'll let you know when I have studied it in more detail.

[Braindead]

Mine is a demonstrator also.

I sent the form to Toyota UK who claim the grant is not available because of the clause in the appendix stating "...... registered by You before 31st March ....." .

However, the EST (Energy Saving Trust) said in an email it would be OK.

Toyota say EST have it wrong. However, the grant is issued by EST not Toyota so I know who I choose to believe.

Also, the PowerShift Site (part of EST) www.powershift.org.uk states

"The TransportEnergy PowerShift programme aims to encourage demand for cleaner fuel vehicles (CFVs) - to get more of those vehicles on the road. Anyone applying for a grant will have a range of CFVs to choose from on the PowerShift Register. "

You and I have put a CFV on the road as our day-to-day means of transport. Toyota did not put it on the road to repalce a normal vehicle, they used it as a sales tools.

So, my view is we should get the grant.....unless Toyota have claimed it for themselves which is not in the spirit of the scheme and, I would argue, unethical.

I have written to Toyota UK and people at the EST to pursue this line of argument. I suggest you do the same.

Addresses as follows:

Mr Eifion Jones

Toyota (GB) PLC

Great Burgh

Burgh Heath

Epsom

Surrey

KT18 5UX

Mr Steve Duval

Toyota (GB) PLC

Great Burgh

Burgh Heath

Epsom

Surrey

KT18 5UX

Mr Matt Whitheead

EST

TransportEnergy

21 Dartmouth Street

London

SW1H 9BP

Jonathan Murray

EST

TransportEnergy

21 Dartmouth Street

London

SW1H 9BP

Don't give up....kick up a stink!

If you want a copy of my letter, just shout and I'll email you a copy

If I find I can't get a grant because Toyota have claimed it then it's time to write to my MP and Watchdog I think :!Removed!:

[SilverT4]

I'll see what happens with my application and if its refused, then I'll start to kick *****! If I am lucky enough to get mine, then its sets a precedence for you to get yours. We'll work together on this one.

[Braindead]

The two of us against the world! :D

As a matter of interest, where have you sent the form? Toyota or EST?

[SilverT4]

I havn't sent it in yet, but the form does say forward to your Toyota centre which I presume means my local dealer.

It occurred to me that if Toyota or the dealer have claimed the grant and they havn't kept the car for three years then according to the conditions they should inform EST and repay some of the grant.

[SilverT4]

I dropped an email to EST and asked them for advice about whether I would be eligible for the grant as I didn't register the car from new.

Their prompt reply was short and to the point ....... NO I would not be eligible!

Let battle commence ..... Time to write a few letters I think.

The annoying thing is that the saving on buying a demonstrator are wiped out by losing the grant !

[Braindead]

My advice would not be to play on the negative i.e. "I didn't register it from new".

Play on the positive "I bought a 4 week old demonstrator from my Toyota dealer so this is the first time this car has been used to replace a non-CFV vehicle".

Don't set yourself up to fail - don't give them an easy way to say no.

I haven't had any replies to my last batch of snail mails yet. Let you know when I do.

[dalfruin]

Another person joining the Powershift grant fight!

Just agreed a deal to buy a Silver T4 demo - 2300 miles, registered on 1/11/04 - must be one of the very first in the country.

Dealer reckons I can't get the Powershift grant but I sent an email to Powershift asking the question.

The reason I bought the demo was that I could not get any new Prius for at least 8 weeks (and then only if I ordered the only one unreserved on Toyota's system for the whole country) and that it was expected to be May or June for any other order.

I was shown a letter from Toyota to the dealers and it did state that demos were excluded. My assumption was that this was to stop the dealers themselves from claiming the grant.

However, I want the grant! It would make what I think was a great deal even sweeter.

Just out of interest, I was told by 2 different dealers that they were not selling their demos until the car was 12 months old due to the contract with Toyota.....

So, please keep this thread updated and hopefully we will be successful.

Thanks, Dalfruin

[SilverT4]

Seems that quite a few people have bought demonstrators - simply because Toyota can't supply new ones ! I have sent a long email to the EST about the non payment of the grant for demo cars and am awaiting their response. I was also told by two dealers that they were not allowed to sell demo cars, but a third garage (from the same dealership) offered me his demo before I had even asked !

[Braindead]

Inchcape in Derby told me they couldn't sell the demonstrator - I think he said they had to keep it 8 months.

The Burton branch - ten miles up the road sold me their seven week old demonstrator.

I did buy it knowing that the dealer said the grant was not available but I thought I'd try anyway. I have an email from the EST that says the grant is available on a demonstrator. See below:

Mr Newton,

A grant should still be available for the demonstration car that you have purchased and under the current grant scheme for the Prius it does not make any difference if you have already taken delivery of the vehicle.

Regards

EST Transport Energy

Helpdesk Tel: 0845 602 1425

www.transportenergy.org.uk

Toyota GB say EST have it wrong......Hang on, I thought the grant was from the EST not Toyota. I smell a rat!

Below is the letter I've sent to Toyota GB and the EST. A week has gone by and no answer yet.

PowerShift Grant For Prius Demonstrator

Dear Mr Jones,

Thanks for your letter of 12th February regarding my application for a PowerShift grant for a Toyota Prius that I purchased as a seven-week-old demonstrator from my local Toyota dealer.

You have correctly pointed out that the appendix of the application for the grant does state that “the vehicle must be registered by You by March 2004”.

However, I think we are dealing with semantics here. The PowerShift web site states:

“The TransportEnergy PowerShift programme aims to encourage demand for cleaner fuel vehicles (CFVs) - to get more of those vehicles on the road. Anyone applying for a grant will have a range of CFVs to choose from on the PowerShift Register.”

So PowerShift is intended to encourage people like me to buy cleaner fuel cars as a mode of day-to-day transport.

I would argue that I have fulfilled the spirit of the requirements of PowerShift in that I have purchased a Prius from an authorised dealer. I have used my money to put a cleaner fuel vehicle on the road, the car is ‘used’ in name only as it is a Toyota dealer demonstrator bought directly from the dealer. It was not used as a day-to-day means of transport.

The only reasoned argument I can see for not paying the grant would be that it has already been paid to whoever first registered the vehicle. In this case, that is either Toyota or a Toyota dealer. Please confirm that neither Toyota nor its dealers have claimed a grant for this vehicle. I don’t honestly think a reputable company like Toyota would do such a thing as it would be contrary to the purpose for which PowerShift was intended and not in the spirit of the PowerShift programme in that they have not put a new CFV on the road.

Assuming that Toyota have not claimed the grant for themselves I would argue that, as the first ‘real’ user of the car – the first user to use it as a day-to-day means of transport rather than a sales demonstrator – I should receive the grant.

Yours sincerely

Hope this helps.

[dalfruin]

I got a reply from Powershift via email today - NO you don't qualify.

However my wife spoke to them and they lay the blame firmly at Toyota's door. In theory they would be happy for me to receive the grant as they see the logic behind the argument. Supposedly Toyota stop it happening by I assume not approving the application which must be rubber stamped by them. What I don't understand is why do Toyota care..... unless Toyota GB have pocketed £1000 for every demo registered....

So, now we are talking to Scottish Powershift (live in Glasgow) to see what they have to say. The man in charge had left a message on my answering machine this afternoon, so my wife will speak to him tomorrow.

[Braindead]

I suspect that Toyota may be claiming the grant. I'll wait two weeks for a reply to my letter (5 days left) then I'll escalate - Depatment of Transport, my MP and WatchDog for starters I think.

[Braindead]

Time to play hardball! Just sent the following email to complaints@est.co.uk

On the 14th Feb I wrote to Jonathan Murray and Matt Whitheead at the EST regarding PowerShift grants for ex-demonstrator Toyota Prius cars. I also wrote to Mr Eifion Jones at Toyota UK.

At the time of writing this email, I have not had any replies.

For some reason Toyota seem to object to the payment of the grant for ex-demonstrator cars purchased from their official dealers.

I am not happy with the situation and would like to escalate. Unless you can advise otherwise, the only escalation route I can think of is my MP and the Department of Transport as I don't believe the PowerShift grants are being administered fairly.

Malc Newton

[SilverT4]

Who actually registered your demo car ? Toyota or your dealer ? I havn't got my reg certificate yet, so I am not sure about mine. Whoever registered it I suppose could have claimed the grant, but one of the conditions of the grant is that if you sell the car before it is three years old, then you must pay back a relative portion. If we can prove that Toyota or the dealer have claimed the grant, (maybe the EST can confirm this ?) then we can ask the question 'Have they repayed it' ?

I wonder if there is some s### flying between Toyota and their dealers as it seems that Toyota dont want them to sell demo's, but the dealer seem quite happy to do this ????

[Braindead]

Mine was first registered by Inchcape Retail - the dealer.

Still no reply from Toyota or EST. That could mean they are talking to each other or that they just can't be bothered. Anyway, I have the email address of my MP and shall be wrtting on Saturday morning if I have had no reply from Toyota by then.

BTW, the new registration document makes the old one look simple. The new one is to make us compatible with the rest of the EU apparently :(

[Braindead]

Two weeks has now gone by and no reply to my letter to Toyota and EST.

Have just sent a letter to my MP with a cc to the EST and Toyota.

Copy available if you want to use it as the basis of a letter to your MP. Just email me and I'll send it you as a Word doc.

Basically I'm asking 3 questions

1: Why are ex-demostrator owners not qualifying for grants?

2: Are Toyota putting demonstrators on the forecourt, claiming the grant then selling the demonstrators a few weeks later?

3: Why are Toyota UK administering the grants rather than the EST?

There is one underlying question though - is the government money given by the Department of Transport to EST being used as it should be?

Doh! that's four questions!

Come on folks get lobbying. They owe us a grant!

[SilverT4]

Any updates on the grant yet ?

I sent my form into Toyota as advised on their web site, but as yet have had no reply. Maybe no news is good news!

SilverT4

[Braindead]

Have letters from both Toyota(GB) and Energy Saving Trust saying I can have the grant but still stating that demonstrator cars count as second hand. I'm told the reason I can have the grant is that EST gave a positive, if mistaken, reply to my email asking if I was entitled.

I have not yet had a reply from my MP but I think the fact I wrote to her and copied the EST and Toyota(GB) sparked them into action.

I resent the form which they received on the 8th March (signed for delivery). No more news since.

I also have definite confirmation that Toyota dealers are not claiming the grants on the demonstrators for themselves - thankfully!

I still believe that the grant should go to the first owner to replace a standard vehicle with a CFV rather than the first person to register the car.

The discount I got for buying a demonstrator was £1,300 which is effectively reduced to £300 if I don't get the grant. Therefore, if anyone is thinking of buying a demonstrator, get at least £2k off the price and assume no grant.

[SilverT4]

Received my grant application back from Toyota today informing me that the grant was not payable on a demonstrator car as this was classed as used and was not registered by me.

I have now written to EST but am not hopeful of receiving a positive reply.

SilverT4

[Braindead]

That's tough :(

How about writing to your MP with a cc to Toyota and EST?

Did they tell you no grant before you bought it?

[Braindead]

Update

My wife took a phone call from a person at the Department of Transport today. He rang to say that the EST definitely wanted to give me the grant but they had not got the forms through from Toyota (GB) despite pushing them. The chap from the DoT asked if he could pass my phone number to the EST. My wife agreed.

A chap from the EST rang and repeated the story and said they had to get the forms before month end - could I help? I've sent a copy off direct to EST today with guaranteed delivery on Monday. Toyota have had my form since 8th March!

My wife says the chap from the DoT reiterated that it is not Toyotas decision as to who gets grants, it is the EST.

The only way the DoT could have got involved is if my MP forwarded the letter I wrote her as I have not been in direct contact with them.

Once again, I can only recommend you follow the route I took - letter to your MP with a cc to Toyota (GB) and EST.

What a crying shame that a company that produces such wonderful cars is let down by the people who represent them in the UK. Toyota can produce a brilliant piece of technology like the Prius but can't (or won't) get a form from Epsom to London.

[Braindead]

Received this letter from a chap at the DoT today (29th March 2004).

It is a direct result of escalating the situation to my MP, Margaret Beckett. She is to be congratulated.

Common Sense 1 - 0 Bureaucracy

Thank you for your letter of 28 February concerning the administration of Powershift grants. Your letter was forwarded from DEFRA and I have been asked to reply as my division deals with transport policy on alternative fuels.

I have been in touch with the Energy Saving Trust to discuss the points raised in your letter.

I am pleased to confirm that demonstrator vehicles (including this Prius) are eligible for Powershift grants provided that the owner receives a grant offer before placing the order, and provided that the demonstrator is sold within a 6 months of the date of registration.

Therefore, you will be paid a grant provided you submit all the correct claim documentation back to the Energy Saving Trust by 31 March, as stated on the Grant Offer Letter

[BudJar]

Hi,

Well done braindead ! I'm glad that it looks like you've won through.

I phoned EST the other day re claiming etc before the end of the year, but the deadline is 16th April, the exact date my Prius is meant to be arriving. However I could be missing out, because I did not have the aforethought to register my claim intention with EST BEFORE placing an order with toyota

Just wondering if you chaps had any thoughts on a way around this latest obstacle?

Best Regards

Jason :(

[Braindead]

BudJar,

just keep plugging away. You should qualify for a grant in the next tax year evn though it may be less.

If you get stuck, drop me an email and I'll give you a contact at EST who is sorting my application out. I don't really want to publish his name on the web as he has been very reasonable with me.

[SilverT4]

Braindead, well done - looks like you are nearly there. I have written twice to EST now, but still no reply. Maybe they have been waiting until they had come to a decision on Demo cars before replying to me.

Budjar. This new condition re applying for the grant is interesting. In my case I ordered the car on 2nd Feb and at that time the salesman told me that the grant forms were not available from Toyota. They actually appeared on their web site a few weeks later and the form is actually dated 03/04, so there is no way I could have applied for the grant before ordering. Also there are two interesting conditions 1) You must have registered the car 2) You must have paid for the car - and enclose a copy of the invoice with your application. How can you possibly meet these conditions and apply for the grant before ordering the car ?

Silver T4