Mystery Gunk :unsure:

[crofter]

Hi Derek, matey, lol, most engines can be cleaned out one way or another and as i sure you know just by taking the lid off can cure most of the problem but on here it's not knowing each persons ability to part strip an engine and put it back together again. My reference about the breather hoses was back in the old days when we were both a bit younger, lol, i remember working on an A+ series 1000cc Metro that had running problems that basically had blocked breather pipes so i was trying to get across worst case scenario on how things can end up. Of course more regular oil changes will help the washing out of the gunk but a good run on a regular basis will do much the same......................yikes i feel even older now!

Mike.

Mike

Think a lot of the problem was exasperated by the tinny rocker covers and then made even worse by presenting it sideways to the cold air. then there was soaking the brillo pad breather filter in petrol.Can't believe I said that in these H and S times but we managed to do without the aerosol wizardry and not blow ourselves up along the way

You may feel older but you have that to come.Take heart though I am not yet ready for more

Del

Ps think your profile picture is hilarious

[Hicardo]

Aaron, you are the guy getting amazing mpg, are you not? And you run 5/30 grade oil? I'm running Total 0/20..maybe I should give the 5/30 a go

[FROSTYBALLS]

A thicker oil isn't going to give better economy

[Cyker]

Well, unless the cylinder bores are badly worn

But I'd stick with the Toyota 1.0 over a PSA 1.2 any day of the week if the 1.4 PSA diesel they used in the Aygo is anything to go by. It was dreadful! It was worse in almost every respect and had less horse power than the 1.0!

If Toyota had used their diesel engine instead of the PSA 1.4 I reckon the diesel Aygo would have been a lot more popular; It had almost twice the HP and a lot more torque from what I remember. It's certainly been a lot of fun in my Yaris

[Mike169]

Hi, i have no experience of the Toyota 1.0cc the PSA engines or the 1.4 diesels as mentioned by our friend Cyker above and i am happy to go along with his comments. If your engine still appears to work well and you like your car i'd consider taking it to a garage if your not competent doing it yourself and get your car de gunged having the rocker cover removed and have the gunge washed away and afterwards use it for regular longer journeys to get it hot and dry out any future condensation.

Mike.

[sweet-dentist]

I think it is crazy Toyota don't do the 1.2 litre engine, i believe it's the same here in the UK.........have you looked to see if they do a diesel version?

Mike

Nope... never ever do I want a diesel...with all the fine-dust and such...

I had a diesel once .. a H200 Hyundai... 2,5 liter automatic.. drove very nice...but when stepped on the throttle...there was a kind of a smoke trail...like behind a fighter yet with it's afterburners on...

Never again..

The future i.m.o lies more in electricity or Hydrogen...

[Hicardo]

There is something very wrong if, on a car which is clearly developed for use in cities, you NEED to perform regular long journeys to de-mayonnaise the engine. I wonder whether what's happening here is that the recommended 0/20 oil actually holds more moisture, and we'd be better off using a 5/30 grade which is no so susceptible. I'd give up a couple of mpg for a better protection and no gunk

[vox]

This has reared its ugly head again! I remember quite a few years back when
leaded fuel was changed to unleaded, this problem started to appear. Some tests
were done on this and as far as my memory recalls, it was the use of cheap
supermarket fuels seemed to be the problem. Why these fuels caused this problem
I really cannot remember, but I do remember the use of good branded fuel stopped
the problem after a good clean out of the rocker cover. The filter in the filler
cap filter also had some bearing on this, but modern engines have a sealed
system that exits in to the exhaust, so that shouldn't be a problem unless the
non return valves are gummed up and stuck.

Can anyone remember more about this? I'm getting old and my memory is a bit

suspect. This may no longer have any bearing on this as fuels (especially
supermarket types) have improved over the years. Although when changing
sparkplugs in Smart cars, some had a very red colouration on them and the owners
had exclusively use a popular supermarket brand.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Occurrences of this emulsion appearing in engines goes back to at least the 90's, if not before, and when thicker oils were used in engines. So the use of 0W-20 oil isn't the reason behind this. Whatever oil you use, short journeys, which don't enable the engine oil and engine to reach operating temperature, are more often the cause.

If you are concerned, have a word with your dealer/servicing garage and see what they recommend. Might just be an engine flush and oil change, but with a view to you doing the occasional longer journey.

[Hicardo]

Thanks for all your responses.

I still find it disappointing that small cars which are designed for short journeys seem to gum up if they're used for that purpose. I'll do as recommended and talk to Mr T service dept, and perhaps try an additive. There's tons of info on line, particularly from the US, on this subject. It seems to be very common issue.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Thing to bear in mind is that this can happen to any petrol car - not just small city cars - and may be partly due to climate.

In the US, frequent oil (lube) changes are common - an example from another forum:

Just returned from a 12 day ski/road trip with my US chums where we covered almost 3k miles in 6 days driving. He changed the oil in his Toyota Tundra truck before we left, and the day after returning took it for another lube change! I casually mentioned about the distances some company vehicles cover between oil changes on long life oil and he was incredulous. The truck, a 10yo model with 'only' the 4.7 V8 lump purred along quite happily at 80 for mile after mile. Hate the think what the mpg was, but 80 dollars filled it to the brim.

[Mike169]

Hi Frosty, yes i agree with you this issue could happen with any city car/petrol car but with the wealth Toyota have it would be nice to think they can design a car and advise how to maintain it so it doesn't occur at all regardless of climate issues or tell drivers that they must take it for a decent run on a regular basis which then totally defeats the point of a city car.

Regards Mike169

[FROSTYBALLS]

True to a degree. However city cars are a lot more capable now than they ever been, and a run only needs to get the engine up to operating temperature for a period of time, rather than being in the tens of miles.

Living in Birmingham both our cars are subject to a majority of short journeys, and, to date, we've never had an issue with emulsion.

My daily commute used to be 6.5 miles each way. Due to the traffic in Birmingham, each journey took anything from 30 minutes to just over an hour. So although the journey was short, the time it used to take ensured the car reached operational temperature.

Both our current cars are subject to a different regime now, where the journeys tend to be shorter in terms of time.

Isn't this similar in a way to diesel cars with a diesel particulate filter - do manufacturers provide advice in the owners handbook of doing the occasional journey in those cars to prevent clogging of the dpf? Not sure they do.

[Mike169]

Frosty, with respect it's not true to a degree at all but simply true. Are you saying Toyota cannot say design a car with a dry sump and a separate oil tank for the lubricating oil with an heating element in the oil tank to rapidly bring it to operating temp. within a mile therefore eliminating the problem completely?

Regards Mike169

[vox]

I find this whole thing strange, I have never had this
problem with any car and do mostly, by far the norm, short journeys. I always
change the engine oil and filter between services, maybe this is what stops the
problem? Maybe not? The only thing I do is make sure the engine is up to temperature
every time before I stop. I suppose there's short and "short"
journeys.

[FROSTYBALLS]

I'm obviously not saying that Toyota or any other manufacturer cannot design a solution to this - but the vast majority of motorists wouldn't need this solution, nor the added expense to the purchase price of their car.

We have never experienced this issue with any of the 17 cars we've had from new, and, I would suggest, neither have the vast majority of owners - whether they own Toyotas or otherwise.

In fact on Toyota Owners Club, within the Aygo, IQ and Yaris forums, this topic has been raised twice before (including this topic) - out of 19.053 topics raised within these three forums. Which is perhaps, an example as to how widespread this issue is with Toyota engines.

The other topic is:

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/122861-mayonnaise-inside-oil-filler-cap/?hl=+oil%20+emulsion

[Mike169]

On this occasion perhaps it would be a good idea for Toyota to do a chargeable option for a dry sump/heater if requested or as req'd by a customer as this would increase fuel economy and for those having gunging up issues and make the company a world leader in tackling this problem promoting future sales hence higher profits possibly cancelling out research costs.

Regards Mike169

[tarquin]

There is actually a heater option on the circuit diagram in the manual.

David

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Just checked the oil in Mrs Cabbies IQ and sure enough discovered the emulsion. No, the car isn't losing water and I doubt the cylinder head has gone. She does do lots and lots of short runs though and all in town with the heating on. I wonder if the car just isn't getting to temperature.

So maybe an oil change and flush is due? We use 5w30 oil by the way as it's the auto. I think 0w20 is for the manual only?

Not impressed to see this issue in 2014!

[bobkneale]

Short runs all the time, just mean the potential need for a increased frequency of oil changes to try and compensate, and greater engine wear in the long run.

Unless a pre heater is used.

My view - Don't buy a second hand car that has been subjected to short runs all it's life and never getting up to temp.

Look for the the emulsion under the oil filler cap before thinking of buying one and if it's there walk away, that's my view.

[LeeroyJones87]

Hi all,

This isn't an 'problem' with the engine, it is just that those that are having these issues are not running the engine for long enough for it to evaporate the moisture from inside the engine.

As a guide, an engine should be running for at least 10 mins or so so to get the oil hot enough to even start to evaporate the moisture. If your journeys will only ever be short, you will always get this emulsification.

0W20 fully synthetic oil could help as this will take a shorter amount of time to heat up. Also, with both the 1.0l and 1.33l engines, they're only small units and will need longer to heat up.

[bobkneale]

Hi all,

This isn't an 'problem' with the engine, it is just that those that are having these issues are not running the engine for long enough for it to evaporate the moisture from inside the engine.

As a guide, an engine should be running for at least 10 mins or so so to get the oil hot enough to even start to evaporate the moisture. If your journeys will only ever be short, you will always get this emulsification.

0W20 fully synthetic oil could help as this will take a shorter amount of time to heat up. Also, with both the 1.0l and 1.33l engines, they're only small units and will need longer to heat up.

I agree, plus most people will not keep there cars long enough these days to see / notice any wear caused, as the days of our cars lasting 10-20 years or 250,000+ miles seem to be over !

[sweet-dentist]

My Smart is from 2001....soo 13 years old... running like a hummingbird..

The Verso is 6 years old .. has got to go ... too big and such a drinker...

The iQ is only 4 years old....

And has'n even reached puberty yet.... :-D

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Just been thinking about this gunk that's residing in the top of many IQ engines. Is it anything to do with the increase in ethanol in petrol these days? Doesn't ethanol absorb water like brake fluid does and thus it can't be stored as long at the service station etc.

Well a cold, damp, rainy winter and lots of short town journeys equals mystery gunk. The bizarre thing is that my Prius does less miles than Mrs Cabbie does in town and the inside of my engine filler is pristine.

[LeeroyJones87]

To partially answer grumpycabbies question, the prius/hybrid engine works differently from all the other Toyota engines so because it operates differently, and due partially to it being a larger capacity engine too, the prius doesn't have this issue.

For the other question, I don't know, but I don't think it has anything to do with petrol quality. It is just that the car needs to get hot to be able to evaporate the moisture. Plus the temperature gauge isn't a oil temp gauge, it's a coolant gauge so even when the cool light goes out, that doesn't mean it's anywhere near hot enough.