Mystery Gunk :unsure:

[Cyker]

It's true that ethanol soaks up water but there is such a tiny amount of ethanol currently mixed in that I don't think it would cause this effect. It'd be more noticeable in places like France where they have higher concentrations.

If condensation is the main cause, I wonder if you can just tape a bag of silica gel to the oil cap so when it's in it'll soak up any moisture before it condenses?

Or maybe you just drive more spiritedly

Hmm... I wonder - Do those of you that get this also find your cars are prone to condensation and misting inside the car too?

[sweet-dentist]

Nope... no mist ever in the car..

__________________________________

I have a CVT... and nowadays I drive in de "sports" stand...when in de city...

More revs... so higher in temperature...

On long roads I drive in "drive"...

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Nope, ours doesn't mist up either. Ours is the CVT too.

Hmmm, is it the oil? The 5w30 oil is recommended in the CVT and the more expensive 0w20 for the manuals. Does the cvt rev lower causing the engine to be cooler? Is there some other modifications to the engine or emission control that would cause the engine to run slower or cooler?

I've not come across this mystery gunk stuff since about 1990 when I used an old Talbot Horizon around town!?! That shows how long ago it was :) I thought this sort of issue went out with the ark.

[sweet-dentist]

Think that's it Grumpy...

On the D .. the CVT does very low recvs... about 1100 when going about 30 miles..

[LeeroyJones87]

I suggest running the engine, once a week, for a long period of time. I'm talking 20 to 30 mins at speed so the engine is revving above 3000 revs or more, so probably 60 mph + on a cvt gearbox. I'd do this for a couple of months and then see if the emulsification amount lowers.

I'd also think about putting 0W20 fully synthetic oil in a cvt box engined IQ anyway to see if there is any change too.

But at the end of the day, this is just down to lack of heat in the engine due to short journeys. Vauxhall corsa 1.0l 3 cylinder and 1.2 4 cylinder engines have similar issues due to lack of engine running time.

[Cyker]

Weird; I would have thought thicker oils run hotter than thinner oils because the extra thickness causes more friction heating...?

What I don't get is where the condensation is coming from and how it's getting into the oil system - Surely the small amount of air under the oil filler cap couldn't produce that much condensation??

There'd be air above the sump, but surely most of the moisture in there would have been toasted out of that before it got there...?

[sweet-dentist]

Very very good question.... my dear Watson...eh Cyker...

Damned good question...

I looked this up on the Interweb... and....

Here are 2 answers... http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/How_Does_Water_Get_in_Motor_Oil.aspx

When petrol is burned... it turns into water(gas) and CO2... this water... AND the condensation of air taken into the engine... cooled and condensated on the cold engine after started...

[Cyker]

Interesting! Not sure how you could mitigate that

Y'know, I wonder why mine doesn't get this; You'd think diesels would be more prone to it than petrols since they run cooler!

Air filter maybe? Perhaps the Yaris air filter absorbs more of the moisture when air gets sucked through it? (It's pretty darn chunky the Yaris air filter )

Then again I'd expect the IQ to have a similar style of cottony/papery pleated air filter so maybe this is a herring of the red variety (But not the lutefisk or surstromming variety I hope! :D)

[LeeroyJones87]

You guys are looking way too deep into this now

[sweet-dentist]

OK... explain it then... Leeroy...

Pleeaasse

Cyker has a point about the diesels / they really do take a long time to heat up...

I personally do not think a filter has anything to do with this...

BTW it does not have to be a water mixture ...

I do remember a long time ago (and far away) .. and explanation about ...cold engine...petrol condensating on the inside ... sticking to the cylinder and coming inside next to the oilscrape-thingies ... mixing with the oil ... causing the oil to get less helpful in lubricating ... and making a kind of mixture ...

Could it be that it's not water H2O ... but gas / petrol ( C+H+) condensation in the engine (oil) ...

That would explane the diesels ... different fluid ... and sprayed inside ... not by evaporation.. ???

[LeeroyJones87]

Ok, again I'm not a chemical expert, I just know what I know as a tech so here goes...

I think it has something to do with a diesel engine being a high compression engine. With higher compression, although it may seem not, more friction is a byproduct of this and so generates more heat more quickly. You may not feel this way in the car with the heater vents on but remember we're not talking about how quick the coolant heats up, we're on about how quickly the oil heats up.

Also, I think it has something to do with the fact that diesel use turbos more often than not. I believe, due to being forced induction, the intake air temperature will be higher as it has already been through internal combustion. This will result I the engine getting hotter quicker too.

Finally, I believe it has something to do with how oil reacts with the contaminants in the engine anyway too. For example, diesel oil is always black after even a tiny amount of use because of the soot and carbon that sticks to the oil during normal combustion. Because of this I don't think you get as much moisture in the engine.

This is only a possibility though ...

[Grumpy stumpy]

Just checked my daughters 10 plate 30k miles as she just home from work 5 mins up road and hers was all gunked up also. Engine wasn't even hot but rocker cover is plastic so whether this is some reason why ,who knows, but must be loads of owners out there who just use for short distances and never look under bonnet with same issue.

These were sold as ideal city car so makes you wonder if toyota are aware of this issue.

[LeeroyJones87]

Hi grumpy stumpy,

Although this car is sold as a city car, that still doesn't mean they expect you to do that little mileage that the engine doesn't get hot. Doing 5 miles isn't enough if the car isn't getting hot. Your daughter still needs to run the car for 20 mins or more to combat the emulsification

[Grumpy stumpy]

Yeh agreed and I do try and use it to commute to work 45 mins away when she doesn't need it but there are people who live in big cities and only use it for short trips who must be unaware of this problem, I suppose regular servicing and oil changes have got to help.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Often with cities, although journeys may be short in length, they take longer due to traffic, etc and engines tend to be warmed up due to the journey time.

For example, my normal daily commute in Birmingham was 6.5 miles each way. However, that 6.5 miles used to take anything from 30 minutes to one hour, depending on traffic.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Hi grumpy stumpy,

Although this car is sold as a city car, that still doesn't mean they expect you to do that little mileage that the engine doesn't get hot. Doing 5 miles isn't enough if the car isn't getting hot. Your daughter still needs to run the car for 20 mins or more to combat the emulsification

But some cars suffer and others don't. That makes me wonder if it's a design issue.

We got the IQ as it's an ideal city car and diesels just don't like short runs in traffic. But are we going to get premature wear because of this? I hope not. As said before, my pious Prius does similar runs to the Mrs's IQ yet my engine is sweet inside.

I wonder if it's just the IQ that has this problem or the 1.0 Aygo too? If it's just the IQ then it's defo a design issue. If it's both, then it's short runs.

Or maybe we replace the IQ with one of them no fangled electrickery cars? :)

[FROSTYBALLS]

The IQ shares the same 1.0 litre engine as the Aygo, Yaris (generations 2 & 3) and Daihatsu Sirion/Subaru Justy/Perodua Myvi. So if one is affected, they all could be.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

A quick google indicates that Toyota has been suffering this issue in many of their cars (not just 1.0), especially in the US. Turns out to be a mixture between the type of oil and correct crankcase ventilation - or lack thereof.

From a quick read of these searches they suggest more regular oil changes, fully synthetic oil (what are the UK dealers using then?), avoiding ethanol petrol if possible and allowing the car to warm up more.

http://toyotasludge.com/victims

My ponderings are more on the UK IQ's being automatics, in that they are low revving (and also use 5w30 oil). I wonder if owners who have had 0w20 oil used have issues?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Think the issue regarding use of oil in the EU, is that under Block Exemption legislation manufacturers cannot dictate to dealers what oil should be used. So as long as dealers use oil to, for example API SL or SM, and either 0W-20 or 5W-30, the choice of brand and whether oil is semi or fully synthetic is theirs. Dealers will invariably go for whatever they can get which is the cheapest for bulk supplies and meets the general spec - commonly 5W-30.

[sweet-dentist]

I drive the CVT in the "S" mode in the city... higher revs...

And after the oil-change in the big service... NOTHING there... :-) LOL...

Clean oil... of course ... after the oil change... :-P

And YES there is enough oil on the stick and in the engine... just looks like too low...

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Sweetdentist, do you use 0w20 or 5w30?

[sweet-dentist]

I am almost shure that the dealer uses 5W30.... to my surprse...

Actually the Smart also should use 0W20 / 0W30?... but the Smart specialist also uses 5W30...

Some would use 10W40... but this is absutely a NO GO ... for the Smart... causes engine trouble...

If you look at the dealers for car-oil..you will see that they advise 5W30...

Here: http://t.mister-auto.nl/fl/motorolie-toyota-iq-aj1-1-0-68pk_v31142_g3224.html