Rav4 Stops When Idling.

[Norge]

Hello,

I have the following problem: My diesel 2.2 ltr car stops running when idling. The car is from march 2008 and I bought it new.

The car has been to the dealer 2 times:

First time they upgradet the engine software as it had an older version,

Second time they told me on the phone they would change out the particlefilter, but when I picked up the car they changed out all fuel nozzles in cluding the injection system (they told me that my problem was known at Toyota and this was the solution)

Now, the fault still exists, they will change out the diesel fuel pump.

Symptoms: it happens when the engine is warm, I drive quit a lot in trafficjam with a lot stop/go. Problem starts after ca 30 minutes or so.

The engine just stops, no alarm and if an alarm comes up it is "check engine system". Strangly enough this alarm is not found in the dealers diagnostic equipment!?!?! Temperature is probably not a factor as it happens from 5 til 15 dgrC (although I noticed that during -10 to -16 my idling RPM was at ca 1100-1200 RPM,IS THIS NORMAL?). I noticed that the RPMs when idling jumps up from 700RPM to +-1200RPM, it falls back to 700 again and sometime the engine catch it up but sometimes not and the engine stops. Not sure this always happens as I sometimes are just out of the car to get my mail. Most of the time the engine start at first try, but sometimes I have to try 2-3 times. It was 8000 km after the last time I had the same problem. It often start with my engine holding back when accelerating.

As the car is still under garanty, I do not mind what they change out, but I do mind the feeling I get that they are not sure where to look. Although they say the problem is known, it feels for my they work according the try/error philosophy. They try and are friendly and supporting, that I have to say!

Is this really a know problem you other RAV4 owner recognize, maybe one (or more if I should belief toyota) can tell me if my dealer is on the right track or way out. Maybe someone knows the solution, I would love to hear it, as I do not like this situation at all.

[anchorman]

Hi Norge and welcome to the club.

As soon as I get chance I will look through the manual and see what it says. In the meantime I would suggest the idle speed is right and if you turn the heater off it will settle back to about 900rpm. Without looking I would have thought the engine ECU should always try and stabilise the idle speed so maybe that is playing up.

[Norge]

Hi Norge and welcome to the club.

As soon as I get chance I will look through the manual and see what it says. In the meantime I would suggest the idle speed is right and if you turn the heater off it will settle back to about 900rpm. Without looking I would have thought the engine ECU should always try and stabilise the idle speed so maybe that is playing up.

Thanks, your help is much appreciated, looking forward to hear your opinion.

[igormus]

Hello,

I have the following problem: My diesel 2.2 ltr car stops running when idling. The car is from march 2008 and I bought it new.

The car has been to the dealer 2 times:

First time they upgradet the engine software as it had an older version,

Second time they told me on the phone they would change out the particlefilter, but when I picked up the car they changed out all fuel nozzles in cluding the injection system (they told me that my problem was known at Toyota and this was the solution)

Now, the fault still exists, they will change out the diesel fuel pump.

Symptoms: it happens when the engine is warm, I drive quit a lot in trafficjam with a lot stop/go. Problem starts after ca 30 minutes or so.

The engine just stops, no alarm and if an alarm comes up it is "check engine system". Strangly enough this alarm is not found in the dealers diagnostic equipment!?!?! Temperature is probably not a factor as it happens from 5 til 15 dgrC (although I noticed that during -10 to -16 my idling RPM was at ca 1100-1200 RPM,IS THIS NORMAL?). I noticed that the RPMs when idling jumps up from 700RPM to +-1200RPM, it falls back to 700 again and sometime the engine catch it up but sometimes not and the engine stops. Not sure this always happens as I sometimes are just out of the car to get my mail. Most of the time the engine start at first try, but sometimes I have to try 2-3 times. It was 8000 km after the last time I had the same problem. It often start with my engine holding back when accelerating.

As the car is still under garanty, I do not mind what they change out, but I do mind the feeling I get that they are not sure where to look. Although they say the problem is known, it feels for my they work according the try/error philosophy. They try and are friendly and supporting, that I have to say!

Is this really a know problem you other RAV4 owner recognize, maybe one (or more if I should belief toyota) can tell me if my dealer is on the right track or way out. Maybe someone knows the solution, I would love to hear it, as I do not like this situation at all.

hi Norge

Welcome aboard !!!

If you can start -- it means the fuel pump + injection timing are in order . What is happening then -- the engine stops.

If they hv changed nozzles -- it means a smoky exhaust was available??? Or you meant fuel valve as whole (fuel injector)?? There are many opposites in this chain. If engine starts well -- it means both pump and injectors are in order. But the engine stops after a while on idle. It is deemed that either SCV or injectors solenoids control circuit plays with you (receiving a wrong sygnal from ECU). It seems the fine fuel filted is in Order ?? Cheers/Igor

[Norge]

Hello Igor,

All I can tell you is what is mentioned on the facture:

4 ea nozzle tube, complete injector and reprogramming ECU. I do have partnumber if this might be interesting.

Like I said, most of the times it start the first time, but sometimes I have to start 2-3 times. It looks like (but I did not check this theory) that when turning the key complete back (system checks starts) and then start again, the engine start at first time. But when just start from keys position the car will not start. When standing in traffic jam there is not much time I can play to find out, but next time I will try:-)Regarding the diesel filter, I have to assume the dealer knows where to start looking first in case of these problems.

Questions:

What does SCV means?

Is it normal that when alarm "Check Engine System" show up on the screen, no alarms are found in the diagnostic equipment?

I noticed this on the 2nd factura. This is the same as the last time. This is for me (turbine controll specialist) totally unacceptable. No wonder the garage is using the try/error methode.

From a professional view, I would love to know which inputs the ECU has and how the controls are build.

[igormus]

Hello Igor,

All I can tell you is what is mentioned on the facture:

4 ea nozzle tube, complete injector and reprogramming ECU. I do have partnumber if this might be interesting.

Like I said, most of the times it start the first time, but sometimes I have to start 2-3 times. It looks like (but I did not check this theory) that when turning the key complete back (system checks starts) and then start again, the engine start at first time. But when just start from keys position the car will not start. When standing in traffic jam there is not much time I can play to find out, but next time I will try:-)Regarding the diesel filter, I have to assume the dealer knows where to start looking first in case of these problems.

Questions:

What does SCV means?

Is it normal that when alarm "Check Engine System" show up on the screen, no alarms are found in the diagnostic equipment?

I noticed this on the 2nd factura. This is the same as the last time. This is for me (turbine controll specialist) totally unacceptable. No wonder the garage is using the try/error methode.

From a professional view, I would love to know which inputs the ECU has and how the controls are build.

hello again

- they ve changed 4 injection tubes ??? why??? whether they have shown you an old ones and problem spot/s on them?? or they ve just billed them to you ???

- complete injector ----- one/two/three/four ?????? have they shown you both injections before repair and after??? it is a a good question to make a client satisfied before installing;

- wheether four glows plugs have been tested + respective control relay?

- please conside a starting key unit for investigation -- may be it disconects an el circuit when started???

- re filter -- this question is still not clear;

- SCV (solenoid control valve)--they are two on the pump and allowiing dieseel to be sucted from fiine fuel filter (!)once you turn the key in ON position. both SCV remain in open position (ON) unless you turn OFF the engine -- physically these are normal shut off type and are opened once el signal reaches them from key unit. in case both solenoid ccoils are about to die --they play with engine giving on not diesel for suction into thhe pump. FYG -- why engine is stopped ?? it is because you remove el feeding from both SCV and they shut off supply line.

in general -- you have to ask for each billed item verification etc etc. yoou ve caught my point :) Good luck/Igor

[Norge]

Hello,

Although it is April the 1st the following is no joke :D As my car is still under garanty I do get a facture (at 0 NOK) in which they mention parts and hours.

- They changed tubes and injector ( all 4 pieces) because they check the PC and said my problem was fault nr 23670-09190 and by replacing the injector + tubes the problem would be solved. Strangly enough they write on the facture that NO fault code was found with there diagnostic equipment AND first time they told me on the phone that it was the particle filter.....

- If they checked the filter I do not know, it is not mentioned on the facture as being replaced.

Your point regarding the SCV is very relevant and I will ask them if they have been checked/will be replaced when replacing the pump. Are these SCV on the pump or seperate?

Do you think it is possible to get a wiring diagram on the circuit, could it be an earth fault??

[anchorman]

OK Norge.

Here is some bed time reading for you. This is the system description;

4.3 System description.pdf

This is the parts location;

4.3 Parts location.pdf

This is the diagnostic process for stalling;

Stalling.pdf

This is the diagnostic process for rough idling;

Rough idling.pdf

These are the most relevant files but there are many so let me know if there is something more specific. You can view the entire manual here for €3 per hour;

http://www.toyota-tech.eu/SearchPublication.aspx?TYPE=RM

Good luck!

[igormus]

Hello,

Although it is April the 1st the following is no joke :D As my car is still under garanty I do get a facture (at 0 NOK) in which they mention parts and hours.

- They changed tubes and injector ( all 4 pieces) because they check the PC and said my problem was fault nr 23670-09190 and by replacing the injector + tubes the problem would be solved. Strangly enough they write on the facture that NO fault code was found with there diagnostic equipment AND first time they told me on the phone that it was the particle filter.....

- If they checked the filter I do not know, it is not mentioned on the facture as being replaced.

Your point regarding the SCV is very relevant and I will ask them if they have been checked/will be replaced when replacing the pump. Are these SCV on the pump or seperate?

Do you think it is possible to get a wiring diagram on the circuit, could it be an earth fault??

hi

you ve to investigate all possible cases to reach god outcome -- even el contact losing can give you the same head ache.

Thanks to Anchorman for all PDFs for you. Normally MrT dealers have good practice to load all used spares into the car just to confirm these parts were changed. As to waste filter inserts both diesel and oil --- they are normally thrown out in dustbin. But injectors and tubes had to be in your car' had not they ?? Cheers/Igor

[Norge]

Thanks Anchorman and Igor.

There is a lot to read (more then just a bedtime story :) )

I might be back for more questions and I will be back to tell you my story as I (not a pessimist but realist) have a feeling that chaning out fuel pump will not solve the problem.