Problems With Performancebatteriesuk

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Hi all,

On monday last week I ordered a VARTA Blue Battery from performancebatteriesuk, hoping for it to be delivered on tuesday due to its next day delivery guarantee.

Tuesday was spent getting the GTi ready for first start, and then mostly wasted waiting for the Battery. At 3:30 I received a phone call telling me that they had only just discovered that the Battery wasn't in stock. I told them I would wait for it and they said it would be a few more working days. I asked how it was they planned to get it to me on that day if they had only just checked to see if it was in stock (it obviously hadn't been processed) and I was given no reply. Phone went down quite disgruntled.

I cancelled the order via e-mail the morning after, to receive no reply from them. On friday morning, the battery was delivered and I sent another e-mail telling them that I had cancelled the order and asked who to go to for a refund and to send it back. I had no reply until the next friday where I was told that I couldn't return it because I was now outside the 7 day return limit. This did not leave me best pleased.

I sent another e-mail back immediately and told them that I was outside the limit because of their ridiculously slow response and I would not accept that. I told them I still expected a full refund and for them to take it back.

The reply stated that I had to return the battery to the warehouse myself, and I would also be £15 out of pocket according to their T&C's. This seemed pretty stupid to me seeing as they didn't hold up their end of the deal which was next day delivery.

I have to pay for it to be taken to the warehouse and I get a refund -£15. I have sent another e-mail pointing out that I am paying due to their communications failure, and am awaiting a reply. I was careful to state that had the battery been delivered on time, and I then decided to send it back I would understand having to pay the £15, but seeing as I have to pay that due to them not holding their end I thing I am right to say no.

What do you think? I don't think I should pay a penny to them, they have failed to meet their part of the contract, so I am sure that I should stand my ground with this and not take any sh!t.

Thanks,

KP

[Raistlin]

KP How did you pay for it, If it was on a credit card contact the company as you cancelled the contract verbally and by email they are also resonsible and they can claim the funds back.

Also check with you ISP to see if they can confirm the date and time of reciept of your Email.

From what you have said I do not think that they can charge you a fee for restocking as they failed to complete their end of the contract.

Good luck

A bit of info for you:

New Regulations have introduced greater consumer protection measures for the increasing number of people buying online and by mail order. Although the practice is still not without its problems due to the anonymity of the web and the regularity of card fraud.

The purchase of goods and services over the internet, by phone or by mail order generally is subject to the same consumer rights as if you had bought the item on the high street. However because you have not been physically face to face with the supplier, these types of purchases are also subject to the Distance Selling Regulations. If you have met the seller at any point (such as to test drive or agree the sale of a car), or if it is with a shop which doesn't make a habit of selling in this way, you won't be covered and should look to Sale of Goods legislation instead.

The supplier's obligations

If you've ever ordered a product or commissioned a service over the internet, via email or by phone, then you are doing so under a Distance Selling contract. The supplier must provide you with specific information related to your rights and their obligations under a distance selling contract. This 'pre-contractual' information should include: identity of the supplier, description of the main characteristics of the product or service, price, delivery costs, arrangements for delivery, performance and payment, cancellation rights, cost of communication (for e.g. premium rate telephone line), period of validity of offer, information regarding substitute products. This information must be communicated clearly, but not necessarily in writing, before your order is confirmed so that you can be in possession of all the facts should you wish to change your mind. Remember also that the price you see when you 'add to cart' is often not the price you end up paying. Any additional costs such as VAT, shipping, handling or administrative fees, customs duties etc that you are responsible for should be clearly set out before you confirm payment.

if you have not received any pre-contractual information (outlining, among other things, your cooling off rights) before you buy, then you should do so before the goods have been delivered. if you haven't been presented with this information at any time, then this will have important implications for your cooling off period. See our Distance Selling Regulations and your right to cancel section for more on this.

Your right to cancel

One of the most important implications of the distance selling regulations is a cooling off period of 7 working days during which you have the right to cancel and get a full refund. The supplier must provide you with details of your cancellation rights, any duty to return the goods should you cancel, and whether you will have to pay for this. In return, you must provide notice of cancellation in writing, which this must be posted, left at, faxed or emailed to the business address of the supplier no later than 7 working days after receipt of goods.

The supplier must then reimburse you within 30 days without charge (unless you have been expressly informed that you will be liable for a charge) and if you have any related credit agreements, these will also be cancelled.

The work started before the 7 day cancellation period was up!

Unless you have agreed otherwise, goods must be delivered, or services performed within 30 days from the date you submitted your order. If you have commissioned a service under a distance selling contract and the supplier offers to start the work before the end of the 7 day cooling off period, then you can give up your right to cancel, but you must be notified of this and your express permission sought. If the work started with your permission and the supplier has not provided you with the compulsory pre-contractual information prior to their starting, you may still have your right to cancel and get a full refund even though the work has been completed!

Does the right to cancel apply for all goods bought by mail order?

There are obvious exceptions and you will not have the right to cancel with the purchase of the following goods:

• Goods made to a personalised specification
• Perishable goods, such as foodstuffs and flowers
• Audio/video recordings or software where the seal has been broken
• Newspapers, magazines or other reading material (not books)
• Gaming, betting, lotteries

Getting your money back

Under the distance selling regulations, you are quite within your rights to change your mind at any time, return the goods and get a full refund. This means without financial penalty of any kind – such as a cancellation charge or a 'restocking' fee. The supplier must also refund any delivery charges paid by you, and any other costs related to the contract. Refunds must be made within 30 days from cancellation, whether or not the goods have been sent back. Any related credit agreements will also cease to exist.

You may be required to pay to return the goods, but you must have been informed of this as part of the pre-contractual information. if the goods are faulty, then under Sale of Goods, the supplier will always bear the cost of returning them.

Returning the goods

Unless you are required to return the goods, and you were informed of this, your only obligations are to make the goods available for collection and to take reasonable care of them while they are in your possession. This is called a duty of care. Where the supplier has made provision to collect the goods, this duty of care expires after 21 days, but where you have agreed to return the goods, your duty of care continues until you do this and could be for as long as 6 months.

Packaging

Under a distance selling contract, a supplier cannot make refunds subject to the goods being returned unopened in their original packaging. One of the principles of the distance selling regulations is to give you a chance to examine the goods at home, not having had a chance to do so in the shop. It would be impossible for you to do this without opening the packaging and trying the product out. Having said this, you will still be under a duty to take reasonable care of the goods while in your possession, and may be subject to certain instructions such as not to wear shoes outdoors, or remove hygiene seals. But you can never be penalised simply because you did not return the goods in their original packaging.

Card protection

For amounts of money over £100 it is always advisable to pay by credit card. This is because if you run into problems and you can't get recompense from the supplier, the credit card company has equal liability. However for goods and services paid for specifically in a distance selling context, you are automatically protected against fraudulent use of your payment card – whether this is a credit or debit card. If you ever find an entry on your bank statement for a sum of money that you did not authorise, in relation to something you bought online, over the phone or by mail order generally, you are entitled to 100% of the fraudulent amount to be recredited to you by the card issuer.

Do take care however with advance or pre-payments as these are not protected against fraudulent use, and in any case, the supplier may become insolvent before your goods or services are delivered, leaving you with nothing, and little recourse.

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Thanks Raistlin, that's very helpful information and I may be quoting that in my next e-mail, depending upon how they reply.

I'll not let this go, I'll stick to my guns. Not having my money taken like this.

FYI, I paid via PayPal and have acces to records of what money has been spent and where. :)

[Raistlin]

How do I escalate a dispute if I am unable to resolve it with the other user?

Question : Answer : You can escalate a dispute to a PayPal claim within 20 days from the date the dispute was opened. By escalating a dispute to a claim, you are choosing not to communicate any further with the other party and are asking PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome.

To escalate your dispute to a PayPal claim, follow these steps:

1. Log in to your PayPal account at www.paypal.co.uk
2. Click 'Resolution Centre' at the top of the page
3. Select 'Open cases' in the drop down menu and find the dispute you wish to escalate
4. Click 'View' in the ‘Action’ column
5. Under ‘More options’ click 'Escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim'
6. Complete the 'End Communication and Escalate to a Claim' form
7. Click the 'Escalate to a Claim' button

Note: Once the claim has been escalated you may be asked to provide additional information in the ‘Resolution Centre’.

Some points to note:

• Generally buyers must wait at least seven days from the date of their payment to file a claim for an item not received
• If you don’t resolve or escalate a dispute within 20 days it will be closed. When this deadline is approaching, we will remind you by email
• A closed dispute cannot be reopened or escalated to a PayPal claim

[reece]

From what I can understand from your post, the only reason you have cancelled the order is because there was a delay in delivery? You ordered it on Monday and you received it Friday. That’s reasonable, a bit irritating but you have your order.

Now you have received your order, you want a refund?

You will have to pay another £15, still have no Battery and will have to source another one, that’s bad business on your part.

Why can’t you keep the Battery you have just ordered and are now in possession of?

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill, just put it down to experience and enjoy your new Battery

[Raistlin]

From what I can understand from your post, the only reason you have cancelled the order is because there was a delay in delivery? You ordered it on Monday and you received it Friday. That's reasonable, a bit irritating but you have your order.

Now you have received your order, you want a refund?

You will have to pay another £15, still have no battery and will have to source another one, that's bad business on your part.

Why can't you keep the battery you have just ordered and are now in possession of?

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill, just put it down to experience and enjoy your new battery

KP wrote:

I cancelled the order via e-mail the morning after, to receive no reply from them. On friday morning, the Battery was delivered and I sent another e-mail telling them that I had cancelled the order and asked who to go to for a refund and to send it back.

If he has cancelled the order due to poor service and broken lead times and then bought a replacement why should he keep it ?

They broke the contract and he is within his right to a full refund.

Check the law on Contacts

[reece]

Two choices

If he doesn’t want to keep it then he can lose £15 of his pocket money and try and find another one at a decent price.

At the end of the day he has a Battery that he ordered (albeit a little late and technically in breach of consumer law... Big deal!)

Or he can waste his time energy and money due to his principles! The end result will be the same; he will have a Battery. Pursuing this then unfortunately he will be out of pocket, the original company will be £15 up and he will probably have to wait just as long again and spend more money!

Principles come with a price.

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Delivery three days after the guaranteed date is unacceptable and you seem to have missed some aspects of the original post reece.

I have to lose that £15 and also pay to have it taken back to the warehouse.

Time and energy is not a problem for me, I have the energy and I have plenty of time before the Battery needs some serious useage. ;)

If I were to go into further detail, you would see how they have no regard for customer satisfaction, and have tried only yo hang onto what money they can.

A reply has been made and they have stated that I need only pay a £9.50 delivery charge. I am not paying even that. I wouldn't have to pay these charges if they hadn't failed so miserably with communications. They made a delivery that had been cancelled well within the EDD.

I am still going to fight this corner, yes for money and also for principle. You seem to think acting upon principle is pointless. This is not o because obviously it gets things done. So far I have shaved over £65 off of what I paid. I am going to get every last penny.

[reece]

If it makes you feel better then fill your boots! I suppose its good experience for you for the future when it’s about things that really matter.

£24.50 out of pocket and still no Battery, but if you win the moral victory then good for you!

Good luck

[Raistlin]

( albeit a little late and technically in breach of consumer law )

My point exactly, thank you for agreeing.

How many times do consumers have to put up with substandard service and pay for the privilage.

I agree on making a stand and maybe they will not be as quick shafting their next customer...

I have a real problem with people who take the money then give poor service, a quick courtesy call would have probably placated KP and stopped this post.

It's the lack of care and the attitude of "we have the money so there" that burns my butt..

Good customer service is a right, things do go wrong we live in an imperfect world but manners go a long way, Will KP but from them again probably not, how many other people seeing his complaint or hear about will either.

Rant over

[Norfolk n Chance]

I agree with KP & Raistlin...

KP if you have no joy ring your local Trading Standards office... they love this sort of stuff!

[Jamesbelfast]

Looking through the terms and conditions of the website mentioned it clearly states:-

We do everything we can to meet the delivery time specified in this section, however occasionally delivery times may be affected by factors beyond our control and cannot be guaranteed.

I would think this condition satisfies both the Distance Selling Regulations and the Sale of Goods Act.

Plus they contacted you within one working day of the agreed sale.

[KPARRIS-JONES]

We have agreed that I will pay the £9.50 delivery charge and they will collect it from my house.

Finally I am close to satisfied.

I managed to get back £64 over 5 e-mails. That's roughly £13 per e-mail. Not bad. Worth it I think. :)

Lets hope this sort of thing doesn't happen again...

[reece]

But you still have to buy another Battery do you not?

You are also £9.50 down, bit of a hollow victory?

[KPARRIS-JONES]

But you still have to buy another battery do you not?

You are also £9.50 down, bit of a hollow victory?

No I already mentioned that I bought another from Halfords on the day.

A worthwhile victory.

EDIT:

Scratch that, no I didn't mention it here. I bought another from Halfords.

[Raistlin]

But you still have to buy another battery do you not?

You are also £9.50 down, bit of a hollow victory?

No I already mentioned that I bought another from Halfords on the day.

A worthwhile victory.

EDIT:

Scratch that, no I didn't mention it here. I bought another from Halfords.

KP said "We got to Halfords to find no such thing as boggo batteries. The worst Battery they had was £78 so I decided to get a calcium Battery for £90, deciding to cancel the VARTA. "

Dude only apologise if you are wrong, you did metion getting a replacement Battery in the 'Having a Grouse' topic.

See I do listen

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Cheers. ;)

[Cherry Red Pocket Rocket]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with Reece on this one. It all sounds like more hassle than its worth and life is too short. You've got your Battery although a few days later than you expected but you went onto say that you didn't need it for a while anyway so whats the problem?

Awful customer service, granted. They at least got the Battery to you though and you were only going to have it sat around for a while were you to have received it on time anyway.

[KPARRIS-JONES]

No I never said that I didn't need it for a while, I said I would wait, that doesn't mean I didn't need it. ;)

And to you it is too much hassle, but for the sake of 5 e-mails I saved myself £64 of my money which will go to far more useful things for the motor. If you're prepared to sit back and take it like that then be my guest, but I'm not going to let anyone get my money so easily.

I am satisfied with the overall result and that's what matters in this situation, because it was me who tried to get a Battery.

This has been resolved for a while now so reviving this topic is someone pointless.

[Raistlin]

No I never said that I didn't need it for a while, I said I would wait, that doesn't mean I didn't need it.

And to you it is too much hassle, but for the sake of 5 e-mails I saved myself £64 of my money which will go to far more useful things for the motor. If you're prepared to sit back and take it like that then be my guest, but I'm not going to let anyone get my money so easily.

I am satisfied with the overall result and that's what matters in this situation, because it was me who tried to get a battery.

This has been resolved for a while now so reviving this topic is someone pointless.

Anger:

Is this a Gay thing .... Nudge Nudge

[Cherry Red Pocket Rocket]

Says he who started it... How did you save £64 with a few e-mails? Weren't you going to have to pay £15 in charges or something? I'm confused but you're right, it doesn't matter.

[reece]

With only school to consider, he has plenty of time on his hands. No responsibilities like working full time, paying bills, feeding a family etc etc.

It’s all about priorities, which change with age and experience

[Norfolk n Chance]

KP... as you said reviving this topic was somewhat pointless, do you want it closing??

People obviously have differing opions so it may be better if everyone agrees to disagree.....

[Raistlin]

[KPARRIS-JONES]

KP... as you said reviving this topic was somewhat pointless, do you want it closing??

People obviously have differing opions so it may be better if everyone agrees to disagree.....

Yes please if you would, it's not that I'm running away or anything but it's a sorted situation and there's no point in leaving it open for arguments. :)

Thank you. ;)