Egr Valve And Manifold Blocked

[tomekpel]

Hello everyone, before I spend £550 I thought I could give it a go on this forum.

My Avensis (2.0 D4D 2004) has recently developed following symptoms:

1. lack of acceleration after 1800-2000 revs, happens quite often now and only when engine is hot

2. black soot spray out of exhaust when revved hard on idle

3. occasional problems with starting the engine, usually starts on second try

I did research this forum and seems like the EGR valve needs cleaning or changing.

I went to local Toyota dealer to get a second opinion and was told that EGR valve is very possible cause of my problems.

But according to them, to have a look at the EGR valve they will have to take off manifold and clean it as well.

I was told that clogging happened because I have been using 10-40 semi synthetic oil instead of 5-30.

My questions are:

Could EGR valve be a problem in this case?

Is it reasonable and necessary to take the manifold off as well?

Could 10-40 oil be the cause of clogging?

Thanks, Tom

[t-spiritpete]

Hello everyone, before I spend £550 I thought I could give it a go on this forum.

My Avensis (2.0 D4D 2004) has recently developed following symptoms:

1. lack of acceleration after 1800-2000 revs, happens quite often now and only when engine is hot

2. black soot spray out of exhaust when revved hard on idle

3. occasional problems with starting the engine, usually starts on second try

I did research this forum and seems like the EGR valve needs cleaning or changing.

I went to local Toyota dealer to get a second opinion and was told that EGR valve is very possible cause of my problems.

But according to them, to have a look at the EGR valve they will have to take off manifold and clean it as well.

I was told that clogging happened because I have been using 10-40 semi synthetic oil instead of 5-30.

My questions are:

Could EGR valve be a problem in this case?

Is it reasonable and necessary to take the manifold off as well?

Could 10-40 oil be the cause of clogging?

Thanks, Tom

Hi Tom, yes 100% the EGR needs cleaning, possibly the manifold but clean the valve first. I would very much doubt that the 10w-40 oil has caused the clogging as this is a very common problem even with cars serviced by Toyota using 5w-30 oil.

It sounds to me like they are ripping you off so do a search on this forum on cleaning the EGR valve and the method will be well explained for you to do it yourself if you feel up to it.

Best regards .. Pete.

[Myko]

A link to a useful thread!

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106241&st=0

Myko

[toyotavensis]

Hello everyone, before I spend £550 I thought I could give it a go on this forum.

My Avensis (2.0 D4D 2004) has recently developed following symptoms:

1. lack of acceleration after 1800-2000 revs, happens quite often now and only when engine is hot

2. black soot spray out of exhaust when revved hard on idle

3. occasional problems with starting the engine, usually starts on second try

I did research this forum and seems like the EGR valve needs cleaning or changing.

I went to local Toyota dealer to get a second opinion and was told that EGR valve is very possible cause of my problems.

But according to them, to have a look at the EGR valve they will have to take off manifold and clean it as well.

I was told that clogging happened because I have been using 10-40 semi synthetic oil instead of 5-30.

My questions are:

Could EGR valve be a problem in this case?

Is it reasonable and necessary to take the manifold off as well?

Could 10-40 oil be the cause of clogging?

Thanks, Tom

I can't say if the EGR needs cleaning in your case as I'm not a service technician. However, if your '04 2.0 D4D has a 1CD-FTV engine then the EGR valve will be on the right hand end of the block/intake manifold, under the black metal channel from the turbo. Look for pics in the general members' gallery under 1CD-FTV EGR.

[JohnYossarian]

A link to a useful thread!

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106241&st=0

Myko

Myko,

I doubt that his EGR is the same. As Toyotavensis mentions it is in a different place for the 1CD-FTV engines. He should follow the thread that Toyotavensis opened some time ago.

I was having my MOT recently and eveything was fine except for the gas emission that came in the red zone. EGR valve was the culprit (I was informed) and I was asked for about £ 200 for cleaning. EGR valve according to Autodata takes 2.5 hours so if one is at Toyota dealership this easily makes it up to £ 200. I did not have the time to come back for another test and just signed the bill. I was beating myself fot being lazy and not having done it myself.

Even now I can still see black smoke when I rev the engine from iddle and I am wondering whether it has been properly cleaned up. I have always driven the car with synthetic 0-30 oil and yet, it got clogged.

How much did they ask you to cough up for their service?

[igormus]

Hello everyone, before I spend £550 I thought I could give it a go on this forum.

My Avensis (2.0 D4D 2004) has recently developed following symptoms:

1. lack of acceleration after 1800-2000 revs, happens quite often now and only when engine is hot

2. black soot spray out of exhaust when revved hard on idle

3. occasional problems with starting the engine, usually starts on second try

I did research this forum and seems like the EGR valve needs cleaning or changing.

I went to local Toyota dealer to get a second opinion and was told that EGR valve is very possible cause of my problems.

But according to them, to have a look at the EGR valve they will have to take off manifold and clean it as well.

I was told that clogging happened because I have been using 10-40 semi synthetic oil instead of 5-30.

My questions are:

Could EGR valve be a problem in this case?

Is it reasonable and necessary to take the manifold off as well?

Could 10-40 oil be the cause of clogging?

Thanks, Tom

Hello Tom

Your primer and the maiin problem is bad injection resulting all youo have now.

It is understood you have to clean all parts mentioned + carefully inspect all four injectors.

The problem is there. Good luck/Igor

[Myko]

Hi John, that wasn't my thread, I just thought it may have been useful regarding this topic as I heard that this can cause a lag spot in the acceleration!

[JohnYossarian]

Hi John, that wasn't my thread, I just thought it may have been useful regarding this topic as I heard that this can cause a lag spot in the acceleration!

Hi Myko,

I was not implying it was yours :)

[tomekpel]

Hello Tom

Your primer and the maiin problem is bad injection resulting all youo have now.

It is understood you have to clean all parts mentioned + carefully inspect all four injectors.

The problem is there. Good luck/Igor

Hello Igor and everyone who contributed so far,

Just back from the mechanic. The EGR valve has been cleaned, although apparently it wasn't blocked at all. The cleaning made no difference.

The symptoms persist, that is: as soon as the engine warms up, the accelerations starts to play up and when that happens I've got cloud of smoke (not black) behind me. Pressing the clutch and revving seems to do the trick for a moment but after few minutes same symptoms come back.

I'm getting a bit desperate by now especially when even dealer does not have the clue as what could be wrong.

Blocked manifold seems unlike if EGR valve was ok. What would be worth checking now? Injectors? Catalytic converter?

Would really appreciate any comments, thanks!

[igormus]

Hello Tom

Your primer and the maiin problem is bad injection resulting all youo have now.

It is understood you have to clean all parts mentioned + carefully inspect all four injectors.

The problem is there. Good luck/Igor

Hello Igor and everyone who contributed so far,

Just back from the mechanic. The EGR valve has been cleaned, although apparently it wasn't blocked at all. The cleaning made no difference.

The symptoms persist, that is: as soon as the engine warms up, the accelerations starts to play up and when that happens I've got cloud of smoke (not black) behind me. Pressing the clutch and revving seems to do the trick for a moment but after few minutes same symptoms come back.

I'm getting a bit desperate by now especially when even dealer does not have the clue as what could be wrong.

Blocked manifold seems unlike if EGR valve was ok. What would be worth checking now? Injectors? Catalytic converter?

Would really appreciate any comments, thanks!

Tom

- four injectors;

- turbocharger vanes flexibility in their joint pins.

- air filter;

- fuel filter;

- SCVs contacts.

Check with these three and revert,

Good luck

igor

[tomekpel]

Tom

- four injectors;

- turbocharger vanes flexibility in their joint pins.

- air filter;

- fuel filter;

- SCVs contacts.

Check with these three and revert,

Good luck

igor

Igor, thank you for prompt reply. Air filter is clean and I'll have fuel filter changed this week. I guess more difficult will be inspection of injectors and turbocharger, is it possible to see anything just by running computer diagnosis or will they need taking out? Tom

[igormus]

Tom

- four injectors;

- turbocharger vanes flexibility in their joint pins.

- air filter;

- fuel filter;

- SCVs contacts.

Check with these three and revert,

Good luck

igor

Igor, thank you for prompt reply. Air filter is clean and I'll have fuel filter changed this week. I guess more difficult will be inspection of injectors and turbocharger, is it possible to see anything just by running computer diagnosis or will they need taking out? Tom

hello

you can try to move the vane drive just to see whether or not it is flexible. as to injectors -- the only fuel stand can show you what is going on. you must to know that the reason if yr carbon origination is poor burning process that combines in itself both air and good injection (cycle diesel portion depending on engine load). You must not ignore both SCVs from the possible problem spot chain. Cheers/Igor

[caveman_si]

Igor, thank you for prompt reply. Air filter is clean and I'll have fuel filter changed this week. I guess more difficult will be inspection of injectors and turbocharger, is it possible to see anything just by running computer diagnosis or will they need taking out? Tom

Tom Couple of things just to check in your intial post you said that the car only kicked out black soot when rev'd hard in idle and now you are saying it smokes when warm but not black smoke?

Also just to check the air filter and fuel filter have both recently been changed? What about changing the oil and oil filter has that been recently done? And you say the EGR value has been cleaned. Do you know if the bit of the manifold it bolts to has been cleaned as well? As they can be more blocked then the valve.

My next question is, what type of driving do you do? city, fast A roads motorway etc and for how how far/long at a time on average?

[tomekpel]

Igor, thank you for prompt reply. Air filter is clean and I'll have fuel filter changed this week. I guess more difficult will be inspection of injectors and turbocharger, is it possible to see anything just by running computer diagnosis or will they need taking out? Tom

Tom Couple of things just to check in your intial post you said that the car only kicked out black soot when rev'd hard in idle and now you are saying it smokes when warm but not black smoke?

Also just to check the air filter and fuel filter have both recently been changed? What about changing the oil and oil filter has that been recently done? And you say the EGR value has been cleaned. Do you know if the bit of the manifold it bolts to has been cleaned as well? As they can be more blocked then the valve.

My next question is, what type of driving do you do? city, fast A roads motorway etc and for how how far/long at a time on average?

Hi, after it first happened (lack of acceleration etc) when I got home I revved it harder to see if there's anything coming out. I saw black soot sprayed on the pavement. On the other hand, the cloud of smoke (not black as far as I can tell by looking in the mirror) is only when after driving for a while suddenly there's no power or acceleration.

So far the pattern repeats exactly: 1. engine warms up 2. Lack of reaction to accelerator 3. Smoke

What I do to temporarily regain power is press clutch (while driving) and rev to about 4000 for a couple of seconds and go back into gear. This seems to do the trick for few minutes.

Air filter and fuel filter have been changed year ago. Oil and oil filter less than half year ago. I guess only top part of the EGR valve have been cleaned (although it looked clean anyway). Manifold has not been touched. Gentle driving, mostly city with 2-3 miles, twice a day. Motorway driving only once a month at best.

Two things I don't understand. Why does this fault develop only when engine is warm? And secondly why when there's no power to accelerate the car you can still rev it with clutch pressed.

Tom

[richteex]

can someone tell me where the manifold is on a 2.2 d4d engine (2007)..... was going to clean the egr this weekend and thought id clean the manifold out as recomended. Any help much appreciated.

rich

[t-spiritpete]

Igor, thank you for prompt reply. Air filter is clean and I'll have fuel filter changed this week. I guess more difficult will be inspection of injectors and turbocharger, is it possible to see anything just by running computer diagnosis or will they need taking out? Tom

Tom Couple of things just to check in your intial post you said that the car only kicked out black soot when rev'd hard in idle and now you are saying it smokes when warm but not black smoke?

Also just to check the air filter and fuel filter have both recently been changed? What about changing the oil and oil filter has that been recently done? And you say the EGR value has been cleaned. Do you know if the bit of the manifold it bolts to has been cleaned as well? As they can be more blocked then the valve.

My next question is, what type of driving do you do? city, fast A roads motorway etc and for how how far/long at a time on average?

Hi, after it first happened (lack of acceleration etc) when I got home I revved it harder to see if there's anything coming out. I saw black soot sprayed on the pavement. On the other hand, the cloud of smoke (not black as far as I can tell by looking in the mirror) is only when after driving for a while suddenly there's no power or acceleration.

So far the pattern repeats exactly: 1. engine warms up 2. Lack of reaction to accelerator 3. Smoke

What I do to temporarily regain power is press clutch (while driving) and rev to about 4000 for a couple of seconds and go back into gear. This seems to do the trick for few minutes.

Air filter and fuel filter have been changed year ago. Oil and oil filter less than half year ago. I guess only top part of the EGR valve have been cleaned (although it looked clean anyway). Manifold has not been touched. Gentle driving, mostly city with 2-3 miles, twice a day. Motorway driving only once a month at best.

Two things I don't understand. Why does this fault develop only when engine is warm? And secondly why when there's no power to accelerate the car you can still rev it with clutch pressed.

Tom

Quote:- Gentle driving, mostly city with 2-3 miles, twice a day. Motorway driving only once a month at best.

Two things I don't understand. Why does this fault develop only when engine is warm? And secondly why when there's no power to accelerate the car you can still rev it with clutch pressed.

1. Toyota techs told me not to drive the car gently, trying to get top mpg from these engines (well mine the 2.2d4d anyway) will cause problems with the EGR and manifold.

2. The fuel to air ratio changes as the car warms up and I think your car is being starved of fuel once it is warmed up the reason for this is difficult to say but I would change the fuel filter to start with even though it was changed last year, it is the cheapest and most sensible thing to do. You may have had a batch of dirty fuel in the last 12 months, 2 filling stations near me have had new under ground tanks replaced recently for this exact reason.

3. An engine requires much more fuel and air under load than it does just revving it without any load, it must be quite bad on steep hills I guess.

Best of luck anyway, Pete.

[tomekpel]

1. Toyota techs told me not to drive the car gently, trying to get top mpg from these engines (well mine the 2.2d4d anyway) will cause problems with the EGR and manifold.

2. The fuel to air ratio changes as the car warms up and I think your car is being starved of fuel once it is warmed up the reason for this is difficult to say but I would change the fuel filter to start with even though it was changed last year, it is the cheapest and most sensible thing to do. You may have had a batch of dirty fuel in the last 12 months, 2 filling stations near me have had new under ground tanks replaced recently for this exact reason.

3. An engine requires much more fuel and air under load than it does just revving it without any load, it must be quite bad on steep hills I guess.

Best of luck anyway, Pete.

Hi Pete, thanks for information and suggestions. I am having fuel filter changed on Friday. If that doesn't help, injectors and manifold are next on my list. Hope I will find the cause in the end without spending thousands... Tom

[Thermal]

...tell me where the manifold is on a 2.2 d4d engine...

Hi,

It's the 4-armed thing the EGR valve is bolted on.

It distributes the intake air (and exhaust soot from the EGR) into the cylinders.

But since you have to ask, are you sure you can take up this job?

You'll have to take the whole thing and everything that is attached to it off to clean it properly and to prevent all kind of rubbish falling into the inlets of the engine.

Have a new gasket set and a torque wrench ready before you start.

Anyway, it's a dirty job.

[t-spiritpete]

can someone tell me where the manifold is on a 2.2 d4d engine (2007)..... was going to clean the egr this weekend and thought id clean the manifold out as recomended. Any help much appreciated.

rich

Hi mate just click on myko's link and all will be explained with photos and text. http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106241&st=0

Regards, Pete.

[richteex]

Thanks fella's. Im pretty handy with a wrench and have tackled a few few jobs on my old ca (changing discs/pads/fuel filters and the like) and im still here to tell the tale.

Is cleaning the manifold really going to make any difference though, as ive got no problems with car. Apart from a whiney noise when its cold at about 1600rpm which im going to ask Mr T to look at under waranty.

Its done approx 55k and ive had it about 3 months and after reading the threads re cleaning EGR, thought i would give it a go.

Maybe i will just do the EGR valve..... and see what results i get. Very pleased with car so far though.

Has anyone got a picture of the intake manifold in all its glory.

[caveman_si]

Thanks fella's. Im pretty handy with a wrench and have tackled a few few jobs on my old ca (changing discs/pads/fuel filters and the like) and im still here to tell the tale.

Is cleaning the manifold really going to make any difference though, as ive got no problems with car. Apart from a whiney noise when its cold at about 1600rpm which im going to ask Mr T to look at under waranty.

Its done approx 55k and ive had it about 3 months and after reading the threads re cleaning EGR, thought i would give it a go.

Maybe i will just do the EGR valve..... and see what results i get. Very pleased with car so far though.

Has anyone got a picture of the intake manifold in all its glory.

Rich You dont clean the manifold or rather you dont take the manifold off and clean it, as im told its a bit of a long job. But what you do is take off the EGR valve and clean that and clean the bit of the manifold it is bolted to as it will be sooted up.

If you want pictures read the thread myko linked http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106241&st=0 a few people have contributed a how to guide and some others have posted back at later dates what it looks like post cleaning after 1k of driving. All of those engines I think were T180s well the photos ive put certianly were so should be the same as your 2.2

Tomekpel as Pete said I think the cause of some of your issues may be the 2-3 miles of town driving, it never really get the engine warm or cleaned out. In your situation personally I would do a full filter change Air, fuel and oil. Id also change the oil as short journeys makes it goes off quicker in diesels due to the amount of rubbish the oil picks up in terms of fuel and soot etc.

Id would also get the manifold where the EGR valve sits checked again to ensure it is clean. I dont think there is a need to take the manifold off unless you really want to check the inside.

Then I would probably stick some injector cleaner in the tank and take the car out for long drive to get it properly warmed up. And then give it a good italian tune up, ie once warm if possible find some hills and go up them in 2/3rd doing over 3k revs for as long as possible. Or if you have not hills just give it some welly in the low gears. Dont be suprised if a bit of smoke pops out the back.

Any one know if the 2004 2lt has a dpf?

[Thermal]

... Id also change the oil as short journeys makes it goes off quicker in diesels...

... which reminds me of my very friendly elder neighbour years ago, who had a Mercedes diesel and a similar 2 to 4 Km drive profile.

He had been a mechanic for all his working life and still did all the service himself, at the prescribed intervals.

I once offered to help him service his car and did the oil change for him.

The car had not been driven for weeks because he was overhauling the starter motor.

I took the plug out and noticed clear water coming out for at least the first 10-15 seconds.

And no, there was nothing wrong with the cooling system or the head gasket.

The result of an engine never reaching operational temperature...

[tomekpel]

Tomekpel as Pete said I think the cause of some of your issues may be the 2-3 miles of town driving, it never really get the engine warm or cleaned out. In your situation personally I would do a full filter change Air, fuel and oil. Id also change the oil as short journeys makes it goes off quicker in diesels due to the amount of rubbish the oil picks up in terms of fuel and soot etc.

Id would also get the manifold where the EGR valve sits checked again to ensure it is clean. I dont think there is a need to take the manifold off unless you really want to check the inside.

Then I would probably stick some injector cleaner in the tank and take the car out for long drive to get it properly warmed up. And then give it a good italian tune up, ie once warm if possible find some hills and go up them in 2/3rd doing over 3k revs for as long as possible. Or if you have not hills just give it some welly in the low gears. Dont be suprised if a bit of smoke pops out the back.

Any one know if the 2004 2lt has a dpf?

Hi, just had car back from changing the fuel filter. I was very hopeful at the beginning because engine sounded much softer, not clanking as usual. It also took a bit longer before the power loss 'kicked in'. I have one correction to the symptoms: I managed to see that the smoke behind me is rather dark. Anyway, seems like fuel filter was not a cause. Next on my list is inspecting the manifold and after that injectors, taking out and cleaning. Will report if there's any news. Meanwhile any further suggestions are more than welcome. Cheers, Tom

[tomekpel]

Hello everyone, before I spend £550 I thought I could give it a go on this forum.

My Avensis (2.0 D4D 2004) has recently developed following symptoms:

1. lack of acceleration after 1800-2000 revs, happens quite often now and only when engine is hot

2. black soot spray out of exhaust when revved hard on idle

3. occasional problems with starting the engine, usually starts on second try

Thanks, Tom

For anyone with similar problems: I had the egr valve taken off and thoroughly cleaned by Toyota garage on Friday. Everything seems fine now. Big 'thank you' to everyone who contributed to this thread. Tom

[richteex]

Cleaned my EGR Valve today. Glad to say it was very simple to do so. All the bolts came out very easily and the valve its self and pipe just slide upwards and off. The valve itself wasnt too bad, although there was some carbon build up. However, the chamber that the valve fits onto was full of the stuff, only the middle hole was clear and only just.

Followed the instructions above but i purposely didnt spray carb cleaner into the chamber as after loosing all the carbon (and vacuuming out) it was pretty clear and the only thing the carb cleaner would have done, was to shine up the medal inside.

Car started perfectly, no smoke or noises and i would say defo that the idle is quieter. Have taken for a quick run but no difference detected there yet.... will update.

All in all a job well done. Mileage 57000.