What Oil For Dealer Service?

[ihpj]

Dear All,

Looks like the last year has just flown by as our Aygo is due its first year Service by the end of this month :)

Having a Toyota GB 5YR/50K Service Pack with the car, I am not concerned about cost; however what I am unsure of is the oil Dealers are likely to use for service. It is my understanding that, factory fill oil on face lift Aygo's, is a 0W-20 fully synthetic oil. However many local Dealers in BUCKS will use 10W-40 semi-synth. - which to me is unacceptable.

Could someone please confirm what oil comes factory fill in our Aygo's please?

I will ensure that the Dealer who services the car uses fully synthetic oil at the very least. Failing which, I have a quantity of Castrol Edge 5W-30 fully Synthetic (VAG507.00 type approved) Long Life Oil that I use for my Mother's Polo 9N and do a oil/filter change myself after they have had it...

[daf-fy]

hanbook says it MUST be FULLY synthetic oil so i'd ask dealers why they would use semi..............

exact grade can vary accorf=ding to temperature usage etc (again see handbook) but a 10w/30 or 5w/30 would seem to be fine.

NB all the above refers to pre facelift - I don't have a post 2009 handbook but I do believe they were going to make emissions better by among other things using a very low friction oil............

[geezbeez]

Think, originally the oil was 5w-30 or possibly 10w-30 synthetic. cars with CO2 109 rating.

Later CO2 was brought down to 108 then again to 106. Believe the 109 to 108 change was acheived by swapping to ultra thin oil. 0w-20 or possibly 0w-30.

I would have thought thus that Toyota dealers would be putting in 0w-20 or 0w-30 to preserve your 0.2 extra mpg and would be surprised if they used anything less than 10w-30.

My reciept for 2nd year service at Toyota dealership last week quotes Helixplus semi-synthetic. Beleive this is a Shell product which is 5w-30. Think my car would have had 5w-30 when new unlike yours.

[ihpj]

Thanks for the postings; the situation is as muddy as I first thought :(

Phoned a few Dealers and all will use 5W-30 semi-synth. oil. None will use 0W-20 or fully synth. oil.

Have read my Service Booklet and found nothing; so looked at the handbook (p. 261 for those who have a facelift Aygo) and it mentions 0W-20 as the preferred oil, however it mentions other viscosities (sp?) as being acceptable. Unlike the diesel, the literature is ambiguous as to use of synthetic/semi-synth. oil.

Have called Toyota GB and they are equally vague - as long as it is 'genuine Toyota oil'...is how each an every one of their response begins. Very helpful, not, &^%£_£** idiots.

My Aygo is booked in for Service this coming Friday, so I will provide the 4L of Castrol Edge 5W-30 fully synth. oil for them to use. On the flip side the Dealer will supply and fit a pollen filter FOC - I wont have semi-synth. oil in my car.

[ihpj]

FWIW and if anyone else is interested :P, Toyota Main Dealers will use semi-synthetic 5W-30 oil for servicing. I believe this to be unacceptable when in the manual they clearly state 0W-20 (fully synth.) is preferred.

But fundamentally my objection is to the use of semi-synth oil when the car comes filled with fully synth. oil from factory.

I supplied my own (Castrol Edge 5W-30 fully synth. - VAG 507.00) for peace of mind.

[arbs]

thats pretty poor from a main dealer, tnhat said - if the oil has only been changed to lower emissions, I'd be quite happy with the thicker stuff - fully syn tho!

[geezbeez]

Thanks for the postings; the situation is as muddy as I first thought :(

Not half as muddy as the definitions of synthetic and semi-synthetic. Thought there was an article on this forum, I certainly read it somewhere about the diference between synthetic and semi-synthetic. There seem to be countless ways oil can be synthetic or semi-synthetic.

If its Shell or Castrol semi-synthetic and in excess of £5 a litre its almost certailny OK. 5W-30 may for all you know be better for the engine than 0w-20 as that was the original specified and the thinner stuff seems only to lower emissions by a barely noticable amount. like 0.75g co2 or something + Toyota dont use the stuff after first service. Might be this thin oil is good for running in engines but cases excessive wear when used for life of vehicle? Also just because 0w-20 or 5w-30 is stated as correct oil in the UK does not meen its stated as best in other markets or is best for other climates. Seems if all Toyota dealerships are using an expensive branded 5w-30 oil thats probably a good choice. You could easy get cheapest 15w-40 on the market with some independents.

[ihpj]

Not half as muddy as the definitions of synthetic and semi-synthetic...There seem to be countless ways oil can be synthetic or semi-synthetic.

Yup, you're referring to synthetic blend oils I beleive. You have to read very carefully what each oil is, and in this case, the Castrol Edge I used is fully synthetic given it is BMW LL04 approved as well as VAG 507.00.

[Aygo owner]

Hi,

My local Toyota dealer buys 10w-40 semi-synthetic oil in bulk and uses it in ALL Toyoyas. However my Aygo manual states that 0W-20 fully synthetic must be used, it even states that if anything else has be used to replace it with the correct oil asap.

After a fuss my dealer specially ordered Toyota fully synthetic 0W-20 for me although I had to do the oil change myself!!!! They did supply the oil at a special dicscount of £50 to try and keep me happy.

I am not impressed with Tpyota attitute to servicing, I think this is very poor.

[geezbeez]

THought that last post was a joke , but it really is that expensive!

Found this:

http://www.smartsynthetics.com/articles/5w20oil.htm

[ihpj]

£50 for the oil? Sounds about right for a Main Dealer.

Bear in mind that ASDA are selling Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 fully synthetic oil for £32 @ 5L.

[Aygo owner]

£50 for 0W20 was the cheapest I could find this oil on the Internet, that is why my local dealer sold it to me at this 'special matched price'. Normal price, from memory was £76.

I did not buy the filter from them but from a local motor factor.

Its disappointing that Toyota dealers use the wrong oil and you can only have the right oil if you make a fuss and are prepared to change it yourself. We purchased the Aygo looking at precise petrol consumption figures in a very competitive small car market. If the figures had been revised to take account of this thicker and incorrect oil we may probably would have gone for a Suzuki Alto.

[daveyjp]

A colleague has just picked up a 107 and has asked me which oil to buy for top up. According to handbook the Pug can use:

Mineral 15w-40

Semi synth 10w-40

Synth 5w-40

Synth 0w-30

Sythntetic anti pollution 5w-30

So I hope this has cleared the argument up!

[geezbeez]

Think its pretty clear already

0w-20 is £80 a go.

5w-30 is best compromise of price and performance, fuel economy is barely altered.

If dealers put in 0w-20 and charged £60 extra on the service there would be numerous complaints.

Many people would go to independent garage who would likely use 15w-40

[Aygo owner]

I don't believe this has been cleared up at all. The handbook issued with my Aygo clearly states that fully syn 0w20 oil must be used and if anything else is in there to remove it as quickly as possible.

Toyota use this 0W20 oil to acheive the fuel consumptions quoted. Its plain wrong for main dealers to use a non-specified oil that will result in a reduction in fuel consumption and who knows what in terms of premature engine wear.

[ihpj]

Toyota use this 0W20 oil to acheive the fuel consumptions quoted. Its plain wrong for main dealers to use a non-specified oil that will result in a reduction in fuel consumption and who knows what in terms of premature engine wear.

I quite agree. But the stance of Toyota GB is that Dealers are free to use whatever oil/consumables they feel are best and remember, the 0W-20 is Toyota recommended and factory fill; others can also be used as it is approved...but 0W-20 is best. hence, your Dealer can use pretty much any oil that meets the spec. listed in the handbook.

This is shameful by Toyota and their Dealers.

[geezbeez]

Toyota use this 0W20 oil to acheive the fuel consumptions quoted. Its plain wrong for main dealers to use a non-specified oil that will result in a reduction in fuel consumption and who knows what in terms of premature engine wear.

0W-20 is more likely to cause wear than 5w-30 , My Identical car built a few monthes before yours requires 5W-30 as was originally intended.

[Aygo owner]

0W20 is a thinner oil and therefore offers more protection when starting the engine from cold. The situation is more complicated than it first appears.

However perhaps I should labour the point that my handbook actually quotes that if any other oil has been used it should be replaced asap with 0w20 full syn.

I cannot therefore see how using a different oil that is not even fully synthetic is acceptable. This seems to me to be a case of local dealerships cutting their overheads even if it means ignoring Toyota specified quality.

[geezbeez]

In 2008 Owners Manual. Not the service book but the big thick Owners Manual. Section Self Service:

Theres a whole page dedicated to what engine oil you can use.

It really doeas say you can use, 20w-50 15w-40, 10-w30, 5w-30 and gives a chart to show under what temperature some oils may not be suitable. It shows the different grades and symbols for them API SP SM ? Then says ever so pollitely that 5w-30 really is prefered.

For Diesel cars theres a very blank page with 1 line at the top "Use 5w-40 or 5w-30 fully synthetic oil" although Deisel Aygo was discontinued in UK think they still make a few for other markets, probably all go to France?

0W20 is a thinner oil and therefore offers more protection when starting the engine from cold. The situation is more complicated than it first appears.

Yes the 0W is the winter grade but the 20 is the summer/hot engine grade and here high numbers usually give more protection?

If your Owners Manual really does say use 0w-20 fully synthetic only then you do have a legal point.

If Toyota Garage put 5w-30 in and if you get an engine problem even out of warantee they could be deamed liable although in almost all cases they could argue and be correct that 5w-30 oil did not cause the problem.

That said they have to account for all manor of customers, you might not like the warm weather and have a holiday home in Svalbard where you use Aygo to drive to shed at bottom of garden then you really would need 0w-20 oil.

[zakelwe]

If you are driving it normally or drive it to get good mpg then 5w/30 will be fine, the only reason Toyota put 0w/20 in is because it was a marketing thing to say they improved the engine various ways when one of the ways was simply putting in thinner oil... hmmm.

It's hardly a stressed engine is it with redline around 6500 and 67bhp from 1 litre! Also, 0w/20 as mentioned above does not give a good temp range compared to some 0w oils so I think it is probably actually quite cheap, but thin .. typical Aygo cost cutting. I put Mobil1 0w/40 in mine so if you are worried then change it to that.

Andy

[ihpj]

My biggest issue here is that they should be using fully synth. oil rather than cheaper semi-synth. stuff as part of the routine service. But more alarmingly, they seem to be using 5W-30 semi-synth. oil across their model range for servicing (certain models exempted).

Inexcusable IMHO.

[zakelwe]

My biggest issue here is that they should be using fully synth. oil rather than cheaper semi-synth. stuff as part of the routine service. But more alarmingly, they seem to be using 5W-30 semi-synth. oil across their model range for servicing (certain models exempted).

Inexcusable IMHO.

Yeah it's not as if they are cheap either. Perhaps it is worthwhile asking them not to do the oil and getting some good oil yourself and doing it. Costco sell cheap oil if you are a member.

Andy

[ihpj]

Costco sell cheap oil if you are a member.

...they do indeed, but with Castrol Edge 5W-30 (VAG 507.00) fully synth. oil is £32 for 5L, you cannot argue ;)

[paulbuzz]

I don't believe this has been cleared up at all. The handbook issued with my Aygo clearly states that fully syn 0w20 oil must be used and if anything else is in there to remove it as quickly as possible.

Toyota use this 0W20 oil to acheive the fuel consumptions quoted. Its plain wrong for main dealers to use a non-specified oil that will result in a reduction in fuel consumption and who knows what in terms of premature engine wear.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/iframe.do?categoryId=9024084&contentId=7044829 found this site don't know if it is just relevant for the UK only but once entering registration number all oil specs appear. I know it is Castrol but it gives you the type of oil anyway.

[ihpj]

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/iframe.do?categoryId=9024084&contentId=7044829 found this site don't know if it is just relevant for the UK only but once entering registration number all oil specs appear. I know it is Castrol but it gives you the type of oil anyway.

...And it suggests the fully synth. Edge @ 5W-30 - oil that I asked the Dealer to use ;)