Yaris T3 - Warped Brake Discs At 32.6K - Is This Normal?

[cariad68]

Hi all, new to this and not experienced under the bonnet so please bare with me! Took my 06 plate T3 to the main dealer today as I was having judder when braking. On inspection, I was told that my brake discs were warped and the pads also needed replacing. I do mainly motorway driving but not high mileage (not even 33k since June 2006) and don't think I'm heavy on the brakes (always keep my distance). I had them replaced and paid up (nearly £260)but friends and family reckon that this does not sound right and that the discs should not have warped at such low mileage. As a novice, has anyone else had this experience? Could it be a manufacturing fault - or am I heavier on the brakes than I think? Should I query this with Toyota? Any help appreciated. Thanks.

[reece]

The common way to warp your discs to keep your foot on the brake when sat in traffic and not use the handbrake

Keeping the pads on a hot disc concentrates the heat in that area, hence the warp, its not necessarily being heavy on the brakes as long as the heat build is evenly distributed.

As you are doing mostly motorway driving then you are not using your brakes, but you are slowing down from high speeds hence high heat build up. Do you keep your foot on the brake on the slip roads after the motorway or use your handbrake?

It might be a case of modifying your driving style slightly

[alfiejts]

I was just going to say the same as Reece.....

Warped brakes are usually caused by keeping your footbrake on the pedal after coming to a stop, rather than putting the handbrake on and taking your foot off the pedal...

[Raeman]

Has the car been in to Toyota for previous servicing? Have the discs ever been skimmed?

For that kind of mileage and age, i think you was ripped off. The front discs on a small car like a Yaris should not warp under normal road use. The things are vented aswell, so they cool down quicker.

Now if you used the car for doing track days i would agree they could warp.

Sounds to me like the dealership needed to hit some targets that week!

Get the old discs back and have them checked or check them yourself. :(

[alfiejts]

At the risk of starting a row...

Raeman, We all worry about dealers "finding" things wrong with our cars when they are in for service (when there are no symptoms) and wondering if there really was a problem.

But on this occasion, the brakes were juddering, the usual cause for juddering is warped disks, the dealer said they were warped, they swapped them and the juddering has gone away...

Given that the fault has now gone away, isn't that reasonable proof that the fault was with the disks that were replaced or are you suggesting there's another obvious cause that they could have resolved without the need to replace the disks?

[Raeman]

Could have been the pads needed changing.

Before anyone says that that can't happen, i have proof when my Accord had the same symptoms.

Back then i used to go to the dealers to have the car fully serviced once a year. Just before a service, the brakes felt a bit juddery, so i took the front wheels off and checked the pads.

I was right to do that, the pads had worn right down (I knew they were getting quite low anyway plus they had done over 50k), so i changed them for new.

Problem solved, no more judder and i can bet £100 if i had taken it to Honda, they would have told me it needed new discs aswell. I have worked in car dealerships and i know exactly what goes on in some so called proffesional garages. Not to slate or call every dealership out there, but some are terrible, we all know that, that's why people get so badly ripped off.

If the OP gets his discs back and they are warped, so be it, the dealership was right to change them.

Call me paranoid but i trust absolutely nobody to do anything right these days, especially where my cars or bikes are concerned.

[Cherry Red Pocket Rocket]

That should be added to the "ten ways to kill your car" article on the internet.

[Thermal]

The original question was: Is This Normal?

The answer is No, but it can happen for the number one reason as explained in Reece's post above.

Brake disks can get extremely hot, as in over 1000 degrees C, and keeping the brakes on at that temperature, can even warp new disks

Almost forgot the number two reason...

Slamming the wheels on and over-tightening the wheel nuts with an air gun.

When over-tightening circular, like 1,2,3,4,5 instead of 1,3,5,2,4 with a torque wrench set to the proper 103 Nm, warping at the next hard braking is almost guaranteed.

[alfiejts]

I hadn't realised that overtightening wheel nuts or tightening them in a circular motion was a cause of brake warping....

That said, whenever my car has been in for a service or its wheels removed for any other reason, I always make a point of loosening the nuts and rechecking them with a torque wrench - and I do tighten the nuts in a non-circular sequence - 1-3-4-2 or 1-3-2-4 on four stud cars.....

[cariad68]

Thanks for all of your replies and sorry for the delay - been away for a few days! I don't tend to keep my foot on the brake, I do use the handbrake (funnily enough, my handbrake is getting pretty high and I was wondering whether I should get that adjusted - any thoughts?) but I will certainly be making sure I do so even more now - driving style duly noted!

I think that they would have disposed of my old discs/pads by now so no point in asking to see them - another one to note for the future (ask for the old parts!). I shall put it down to a learning experience. I know what you mean about dealerships though (actually any garage when you are a female!) - they were always very helpful during the warranty period (I bought the car from Toyota at 1 year old and it's been to them ever since for servicing/MOT - convenient as walking distance from work! They did not mention anything to me about discs in the past) - we shall see what happens when it's due for its service at the end of June (MOT also due then!)

When it comes to your answers on wheel nuts and torque wrenches I am lost and there's not really anyone in my friends/family circle that knows about cars either - happy for assistance from anyone who lives in the Cardiff area :D

Cheers!

[Raeman]

If the handbrake is getting high, it would be wise to have it checked over. Maybe the rear shoes need changing aswell as you having the front brakes done. If you don't trust Toyota, take it to a reputable garage in the good garage scheme. There must be one near to you, have a look...

http://www.goodgaragescheme.co.uk/

Torque wrench's are special wrenches that tighten up nut's and bolts to a certain torque or tightness. Designed so that bolts that need to be tight, stay tight like wheel bolts, suspension struts ect..

Then you can use smaller torque wrenches for smaller jobs where you don't want a certain bolt overtightening, such as engine cases on motorbikes or smaller nuts/bolts under the bonnet.

Good luck. :)

[cariad68]

If the handbrake is getting high, it would be wise to have it checked over. Maybe the rear shoes need changing aswell as you having the front brakes done. If you don't trust Toyota, take it to a reputable garage in the good garage scheme. There must be one near to you, have a look...

http://www.goodgaragescheme.co.uk/

Torque wrench's are special wrenches that tighten up nut's and bolts to a certain torque or tightness. Designed so that bolts that need to be tight, stay tight like wheel bolts, suspension struts ect..

Then you can use smaller torque wrenches for smaller jobs where you don't want a certain bolt overtightening, such as engine cases on motorbikes or smaller nuts/bolts under the bonnet.

Good luck. :)

[cariad68]

Thanks Raeman, that's really helpful! Happy motoring!

[Raeman]

Thanks Raeman, that's really helpful! Happy motoring!

No probs! ;)

[Rayburn]

Quote ", my handbrake is getting pretty high and I was wondering whether I should get that adjusted "

Most times here the Handbrake is not the item to adjust.

Remove the rear brake drums.

Clean out with Brake cleaner spray.

Then adjust the brake shoes adjuster. Normaly 5-8 clicks. Do 1 click at a time, testing that the drum will turn by hand easily.

cariad68

My 05 Yaris Diesil did 60,000 miles on original pads,and I still have original discs on.(now 72,000) and I don't hang arround.

Rear brake shoes should do 100,000 miles if used properly.

My wifees 03 Petrol yaris was sold with original discs and pads at 37,000 miles still loads of life left in them.

If anyone else suffers from brake judder (suspect discs) try buying a set of Pads first with the built on grinding paste...yes they are available from

http://www.brakes4u.co.uk/index.asp

Work really well.

R