T180 Mpg Still Lower Than Expected

[Rick D4D]

Ok collected the car from Toyota 24/06/10 at approx 15:30 and had a look at the trip computer, I did not write down the readings but it was 44.7 average MPG and just over 5hours trip time which looks good. I have no idea what is in the report but what I did notice is that by the time I had got to Forest Town traffic lights the average MPG had dropped to 42.2MPG. Now for the average MPG to drop so quick (in less than 2 miles / 5 minutes) it must have been reset not long ago which makes me think the engineer reset the MPG around 5 miles before and achieved good results due either open road, down hill driving and low revs. Now this maybe totally irrelevant and I hope it is but I want to say this now before I get the report that there is no way on earth that the car had done 44.7MPG over 5 hours as if it had the MPG would never drop 2.5MPG in less than 2 miles and 5 minutes. Now the reason I am saying this is just in case I am told the car did an average of 44.7MPG over the test because as stated above there is not a chance this reading is accurate for 5 hours driving.

I sent a copy of this to the Toyota dealer as well in case the report claims an average of 44.7MPG was achieved which is obvious not an accurate figure, I mean its like resetting the average MPG at the top of an hill then going down this for 3 miles then claiming your car does 78.6mpg because the trip computer says this.

Sensible comments welcome on what you think etc

[boozehound]

what are you going to do now then fella?

[Rick D4D]

Well first thing I will do is wait to see what the report says and recommends etc before jumping to conclusions, what I will say is on my way home from Toyota this afternoon I filled the tank at Asda and reset all the trips then returned home. Then an hour ago me and the wife went to get to Asda and back to get the weekly shop and to my surprise the MPG is currently at 34.8 MPG and climbing (we only got 32MPG on the last tank), what I will say is from mine to Asda is all 30MPH speed limits and I have to take / go through 7 junctions with 2 of these being traffic lights that are always on red.

I dont know if any software changes have been made etc as I am awaiting the report but early indications are is the MPG is better, I will know more next week when I get the report and we are also going to Swindon and back to which we got 41MPG last time we went so I do have something to compare but if we get 45MPG + I will be happy.

[boozehound]

do you use fuelly.com?

[OldSkoO1]

Hi mate

Do you always use asda? How about trying a tank of vpower after using all your asda fuel. Take on the m-way for 20 mins at about 3k rpm after filling up. You will burn a lot of fuel but then reset it and drive normally and see what you get.

As for the MPG falling, it depends how many miles they covered. I'd bet on the fact they reset it too not long before giving it you back. In my experience changes that quick can't have any more than about 80 miles of calculations.

[Rick D4D]

Hi mate

Do you always use asda? How about trying a tank of vpower after using all your asda fuel. Take on the m-way for 20 mins at about 3k rpm after filling up. You will burn a lot of fuel but then reset it and drive normally and see what you get.

As for the MPG falling, it depends how many miles they covered. I'd bet on the fact they reset it too not long before giving it you back. In my experience changes that quick can't have any more than about 80 miles of calculations.

Yes I have tried a tank of V power before with no real difference but around here I have to do a 18mile round trip to fill up with Shell, I can get BP local but the garage is always around 3P a litre more for standard fuel even before using ultimate.

Judging by how quick the MPG dropped I would guess it was reset less than around 5 miles before as it even dropped .2MPG while leaving the dealers car park.

[boozehound]

well i can say is tonight, forget bout the mpg issues and just follow my lead and go have a good few drinks. :D the weekend is all about the ale for me

[DigiMan]

I went a 100ml journey yesterday only having to navigate 2-3 junctions and 2-3 roundabouts. 90% of the journey was on motorway conditions, the rest A road, not going above 60mph and trying very hard to get max fuel economy. I got 35.5mpg on the trip computer (which according to my calculations is fairly accurate). It's incredibly impractical to drive like this though.

The thing I don't understand though, is I can drive fast, giving the car a thrash over a B road, and still achieve 30-32mpg. There isn't exactly a lot of ''punishment'' in terms of economy for driving the car hard. Would this be true with your car too Rick?

It corresponds exactly with my findings......

[OldSkoO1]

I found this too. Driving economically didn't result in any worthwhile improvements. I put it down to its weight any unforgiving highline shape which in tandem don't help MPG at low and high speeds. Even comparing an avensis t180 which seems to do better on the mway.

Lower saloons seem to have less wind resistance on the mway at speed.

[DigiMan]

Well first thing I will do is wait to see what the report says and recommends etc before jumping to conclusions, what I will say is on my way home from Toyota this afternoon I filled the tank at Asda and reset all the trips then returned home. Then an hour ago me and the wife went to get to Asda and back to get the weekly shop and to my surprise the MPG is currently at 34.8 MPG and climbing (we only got 32MPG on the last tank), what I will say is from mine to Asda is all 30MPH speed limits and I have to take / go through 7 junctions with 2 of these being traffic lights that are always on red.

I dont know if any software changes have been made etc as I am awaiting the report but early indications are is the MPG is better, I will know more next week when I get the report and we are also going to Swindon and back to which we got 41MPG last time we went so I do have something to compare but if we get 45MPG + I will be happy.

Any info about the test yet?

[Rick D4D]

No not yet but have just got home form Prague so I will chase them up in a few days.

[david hunt]

Well a year ago we went to Scotland and we got an 46mpg out of a tank of fuel but this year the best we managed was 42mpg and at that I had to drive at 50-55mph in 6th with a feather for a right foot :( anyway Thursday we filled the tank in Edinburgh visited a friend (about 5 miles) and set of home all the way down the A1 at 9pm. when we got home we had done 287 miles, average speed 50mph, time travelled 5hours, MPG 34.3, that is a long way short of what Toyota quote for a open run so I had a trip up to see MR T. Long story short they called me back and booked the car in for 3 days next week so they can take a look, I know they will start with the EGR but I know and have also told them this is clean but like they said they will have to follow Toyota's flow chart of things to look at.

I will keep you all informed and a bit of luck this will get sorted but IMO I suspect the 5th injector is a burning more fuel than it should or the DPF is not working correctly. I also have a few other small niggles for them to look at but these are very small

1. aircon does not seem as cold (not sure if If we have to pay for a re-gas or will be under warranty)

2. boot Toyota badge is all bubbled on the chrome finish

3. handbrake silver finish worn off due to wear

4. all 4 alloy have minor signs of corrosion but this is very minor but then again corrosion is corrosion no matter how big it is

5. sunroof water tray rattles in the tilt position on some road surfaces, this might be down to the high tyre pressures or something might be a little loose

as you can see not a big list and mainly only points 2&3 are 100% warranty work as the wheels may not be corroded enough and the sunroof may just be down to the tyre pressures and road bumps etc, when I mentioned the AC they said they will check it and if it is out of Toyota temperature spec then it will be under warranty otherwise if it just needs re-gasing to get it better then I will have to pay. I dont mind this but they quoted me £100 over the phone 3 weeks ago so when many local garages do this for around £40 they will have to lower the price if they want the work, I would rather they do it but not at 120% more than local garages in the area.

[david hunt]

Hi

I thought I would add my views on the T180 which I have owned since Dec 57. I do a vey low mileage only 15000 after 2 and a half years and hindsight the car was far from the best choice. I had however been put off my previuos vehicle an Audo 2.0TDi by potential problems with the mass flywheel. Anyway hones john from the telgraph recommended the T180 as a very reliable chain driven diesel with lively performance. So overall to sum up

Good points - Although much of my driving is urban I average around 40 mpg which increases to 42 - 45 mpg on longer runs - I have not seen lower than 38mpg. However my driving style is fairly laid back I rarely exceed 2500 rpm and most of the time I change up as soon as the green indicator lights up.You may well ask why I bought a 180 bhp version a question I often ask myself.

Its comfortable and easy to drive and I ind the climate control and cruise control are good.

Bad points I get a rattle around from the engine around 1800 rpm ( any thoughts) and will get this checked out before the warranty expires.

The boot is too small and the I keep hitting my head on the edge of the hatchback cover because it doesn't lift up enough.

The radio is poor and I have bought a plug in dab unit to get decent reception.

I have been think of changing it before the warranty expires and have been shocked at fall in value trade is now £8500 agains the purchase of £18,100 - so may have to keep it.

[T Sport 1978]

Hi

I thought I would add my views on the T180 which I have owned since Dec 57. I do a vey low mileage only 15000 after 2 and a half years and hindsight the car was far from the best choice. I had however been put off my previuos vehicle an Audo 2.0TDi by potential problems with the mass flywheel. Anyway hones john from the telgraph recommended the T180 as a very reliable chain driven diesel with lively performance. So overall to sum up

Good points - Although much of my driving is urban I average around 40 mpg which increases to 42 - 45 mpg on longer runs - I have not seen lower than 38mpg. However my driving style is fairly laid back I rarely exceed 2500 rpm and most of the time I change up as soon as the green indicator lights up.You may well ask why I bought a 180 bhp version a question I often ask myself.

Its comfortable and easy to drive and I ind the climate control and cruise control are good.

Bad points I get a rattle around from the engine around 1800 rpm ( any thoughts) and will get this checked out before the warranty expires.

The boot is too small and the I keep hitting my head on the edge of the hatchback cover because it doesn't lift up enough.

The radio is poor and I have bought a plug in dab unit to get decent reception.

I have been think of changing it before the warranty expires and have been shocked at fall in value trade is now £8500 agains the purchase of £18,100 - so may have to keep it.

The rattle around 1800rpm could be a loose lead pipe for the air intake, I had this same thing and it turns out to be the pipe resonating at that engine speed. Refit it... It is just an 'L' shaped pipe that just plonks on top of the air intake pipe, secured by a rather cheap clip. This is near the Battery compartment.

[Rick D4D]

Hi

I thought I would add my views on the T180 which I have owned since Dec 57. I do a vey low mileage only 15000 after 2 and a half years and hindsight the car was far from the best choice. I had however been put off my previuos vehicle an Audo 2.0TDi by potential problems with the mass flywheel. Anyway hones john from the telgraph recommended the T180 as a very reliable chain driven diesel with lively performance. So overall to sum up

Good points - Although much of my driving is urban I average around 40 mpg which increases to 42 - 45 mpg on longer runs - I have not seen lower than 38mpg. However my driving style is fairly laid back I rarely exceed 2500 rpm and most of the time I change up as soon as the green indicator lights up.You may well ask why I bought a 180 bhp version a question I often ask myself.

Its comfortable and easy to drive and I ind the climate control and cruise control are good.

Bad points I get a rattle around from the engine around 1800 rpm ( any thoughts) and will get this checked out before the warranty expires.

The boot is too small and the I keep hitting my head on the edge of the hatchback cover because it doesn't lift up enough.

The radio is poor and I have bought a plug in dab unit to get decent reception.

I have been think of changing it before the warranty expires and have been shocked at fall in value trade is now £8500 agains the purchase of £18,100 - so may have to keep it.

The rattle around 1800rpm could be a loose lead pipe for the air intake, I had this same thing and it turns out to be the pipe resonating at that engine speed. Refit it... It is just an 'L' shaped pipe that just plonks on top of the air intake pipe, secured by a rather cheap clip. This is near the Battery compartment.

Yes I cured mine last year once and for all by fitting a rubber washer between the body work and plastic intake hose, I still used the original clip and was tighter fitting hence 12months later and still perfect.

[Rick D4D]

Got the letter Today, I wont go into to much detail as TBH I cant be bothered to type all the letter up but to keep this simple this is what Toyota found

The vehicle was then driven 30miles on a A road and the average speed was recorded at 49mph and the MPG was 46.9

Not happy this is 20% short of the extra urban figure Toyota quote and was the best MPG they achieved and was also using Shell V power diesel to get this, I have spoken to Toyota (or the guy who wrote the report) who have also said that the extra urban figure should be ignored as this is not achievable in the real world and there are no problems with the car.

Put it short I have now emailed a long letter with facts and figures to Autocar, watchdog, carmagazine, which and I have invited them all to take a closer look and that they are welcome to test the car if they wish.

I even emailed Top Gear in case they want to be sensible and see on a challenge can get closest to Toyota figures.

I will add as much as I do like this car that due to the shocking MPG we know get and please remember we used to get around 10% better than we now get that I suspect this will be our first and last Toyota, I see our next car being an Hybrid and most likely an Honda again.

[T Sport 1978]

Got the letter Today, I wont go into to much detail as TBH I cant be bothered to type all the letter up but to keep this simple this is what Toyota found

The vehicle was then driven 30miles on a A road and the average speed was recorded at 49mph and the MPG was 46.9

Not happy this is 20% short of the extra urban figure Toyota quote and was the best MPG they achieved and was also using shell V power diesel to get this, I have spoken to Toyota (or the guy who wrote the report) who have also said that the extra urban figure should be ignored as this is not achievable in the real world and there are no problems with the car.

Put it short I have now emailed a long letter with facts and figures to Autocar, watchdog, carmagazine, which and I have invited them all to take a closer look and that they are welcome to test the car if they wish.

I even emailed Top Gear in case they want to be sensible and see on a challenge can get closest to Toyota figures.

I will add as much as I do like this car that due to the shocking MPG we know get and please remember we used to get around 10% better than we now get that I suspect this will be our first and last Toyota, I see our next car being an Hybrid and most likely an Honda again.

Rick,

Can't say i didn't see this coming... I had already said in the past that Toyota wont be able to fix this for you, your's is not the first nor the last to have perceived economy problems.

You can write to the Queen and Kofi Annan, the fact and bottom line (punch line for some) is that the Auris is not the only car to not achieve its quoted figures, and the fact that this Toyota dealer has gone to so much trouble to try and show you something better is worthy of praise.

You only need to go to the Prius forum to see that just like the Auris, hardly anyone actually achieves 70+mpg as quoted and the BMW forums are full of examples of non-achieving, too.

I think this has been a big tragedy for you, tragedy in respect that you happened to have chosen a big diesel with its power but lack economy and your expectations based on conventional wisdom on diesel has ripped your experience to shred. You might be right in saying this will be your last Toyota, but I fear you wrote that statement for all entirely wrong and irrational reasons helped by your never-dying quest for the quoted MPG figure as suppose to be acceptant of real world performance that all cars suffers from.

Anyway, good luck mate but dont hold your breath on the media to come in a calvary and revolutionise the car industry for you, i suppose it all depends if they think your story would help sales volumes...

[boozehound]

I agree, which is why i swapped.

[Rick D4D]

Got the letter Today, I wont go into to much detail as TBH I cant be bothered to type all the letter up but to keep this simple this is what Toyota found

The vehicle was then driven 30miles on a A road and the average speed was recorded at 49mph and the MPG was 46.9

Not happy this is 20% short of the extra urban figure Toyota quote and was the best MPG they achieved and was also using shell V power diesel to get this, I have spoken to Toyota (or the guy who wrote the report) who have also said that the extra urban figure should be ignored as this is not achievable in the real world and there are no problems with the car.

Put it short I have now emailed a long letter with facts and figures to Autocar, watchdog, carmagazine, which and I have invited them all to take a closer look and that they are welcome to test the car if they wish.

I even emailed Top Gear in case they want to be sensible and see on a challenge can get closest to Toyota figures.

I will add as much as I do like this car that due to the shocking MPG we know get and please remember we used to get around 10% better than we now get that I suspect this will be our first and last Toyota, I see our next car being an Hybrid and most likely an Honda again.

Rick,

Can't say i didn't see this coming... I had already said in the past that Toyota wont be able to fix this for you, your's is not the first nor the last to have perceived economy problems.

You can write to the Queen and Kofi Annan, the fact and bottom line (punch line for some) is that the Auris is not the only car to not achieve its quoted figures, and the fact that this Toyota dealer has gone to so much trouble to try and show you something better is worthy of praise.

You only need to go to the Prius forum to see that just like the Auris, hardly anyone actually achieves 70+mpg as quoted and the BMW forums are full of examples of non-achieving, too.

I think this has been a big tragedy for you, tragedy in respect that you happened to have chosen a big diesel with its power but lack economy and your expectations based on conventional wisdom on diesel has ripped your experience to shred. You might be right in saying this will be your last Toyota, but I fear you wrote that statement for all entirely wrong and irrational reasons helped by your never-dying quest for the quoted MPG figure as suppose to be acceptant of real world performance that all cars suffers from.

Anyway, good luck mate but dont hold your breath on the media to come in a calvary and revolutionise the car industry for you, i suppose it all depends if they think your story would help sales volumes...

I never expected to get the quoted figures from day one but did expect to get within around 10-15% of this and to be fair we did used to be not far off but over the last 6 months this has dropped a lot and now we average around 25% short of these figures. Now that to me is unrealistic and not fair and if that is the normal expected MPG then by law Toyota should not be allowed to quote the figures they do. Yes I also did see this coming but now I have more ammunition if a motoring magazine wants to take a look at this as I have given Toyota every opportunity they wanted to look at the problem in hand.

[boozehound]

Rick i agree with you fella. Are you going to swap the auris then for something different?

[T Sport 1978]

Got the letter Today, I wont go into to much detail as TBH I cant be bothered to type all the letter up but to keep this simple this is what Toyota found

The vehicle was then driven 30miles on a A road and the average speed was recorded at 49mph and the MPG was 46.9

Not happy this is 20% short of the extra urban figure Toyota quote and was the best MPG they achieved and was also using shell V power diesel to get this, I have spoken to Toyota (or the guy who wrote the report) who have also said that the extra urban figure should be ignored as this is not achievable in the real world and there are no problems with the car.

Put it short I have now emailed a long letter with facts and figures to Autocar, watchdog, carmagazine, which and I have invited them all to take a closer look and that they are welcome to test the car if they wish.

I even emailed Top Gear in case they want to be sensible and see on a challenge can get closest to Toyota figures.

I will add as much as I do like this car that due to the shocking MPG we know get and please remember we used to get around 10% better than we now get that I suspect this will be our first and last Toyota, I see our next car being an Hybrid and most likely an Honda again.

Rick,

Can't say i didn't see this coming... I had already said in the past that Toyota wont be able to fix this for you, your's is not the first nor the last to have perceived economy problems.

You can write to the Queen and Kofi Annan, the fact and bottom line (punch line for some) is that the Auris is not the only car to not achieve its quoted figures, and the fact that this Toyota dealer has gone to so much trouble to try and show you something better is worthy of praise.

You only need to go to the Prius forum to see that just like the Auris, hardly anyone actually achieves 70+mpg as quoted and the BMW forums are full of examples of non-achieving, too.

I think this has been a big tragedy for you, tragedy in respect that you happened to have chosen a big diesel with its power but lack economy and your expectations based on conventional wisdom on diesel has ripped your experience to shred. You might be right in saying this will be your last Toyota, but I fear you wrote that statement for all entirely wrong and irrational reasons helped by your never-dying quest for the quoted MPG figure as suppose to be acceptant of real world performance that all cars suffers from.

Anyway, good luck mate but dont hold your breath on the media to come in a calvary and revolutionise the car industry for you, i suppose it all depends if they think your story would help sales volumes...

I never expected to get the quoted figures from day one but did expect to get within around 10-15% of this and to be fair we did used to be not far off but over the last 6 months this has dropped a lot and now we average around 25% short of these figures. Now that to me is unrealistic and not fair and if that is the normal expected MPG then by law Toyota should not be allowed to quote the figures they do. Yes I also did see this coming but now I have more ammunition if a motoring magazine wants to take a look at this as I have given Toyota every opportunity they wanted to look at the problem in hand.

Go for it, take Toyota and the industry to court.

[Rick D4D]

Rick i agree with you fella. Are you going to swap the auris then for something different?

Probably keep it another year as to swap it now the money you would loose would be more than the amount you loose due to poor MPG, but then again who knows what might happen.

[OldSkoO1]

.... and the BMW forums are full of examples of non-achieving, too.

I'm not sure about the plethora of 320d's with their ridiculously high MPG figures but my 335d driven in the same manor is exceeding it's official combined figure by quite some way over the same journey to and from work. The book say 37mpg combined for my 335d but i'm actually getting 43mpg. Both tanks so far have been this. It's the first time i've ever consistently exceeded the combined figure over a tank.

It's actually the same if not better on fuel than my old t180, especially on the m-way, yet it's a 3.0litre twin turbo with god knows how much power. I just wish i could have deciphered precisely why the t180 seems so sensitive to fuel when i had it. I could only take educated guesses.

[T Sport 1978]

.... and the BMW forums are full of examples of non-achieving, too.

I'm not sure about the plethora of 320d's with their ridiculously high MPG figures but my 335d driven in the same manor is exceeding it's official combined figure by quite some way over the same journey to and from work. The book say 37mpg combined for my 335d but i'm actually getting 43mpg. Both tanks so far have been this. It's the first time i've ever consistently exceeded the combined figure over a tank.

It's actually the same if not better on fuel than my old t180, especially on the m-way, yet it's a 3.0litre twin turbo with god knows how much power. I just wish i could have deciphered precisely why the t180 seems so sensitive to fuel when i had it. I could only take educated guesses.

I think you need to give yourself some credit here Oldskool, you seem to understand how to operate your cars for economy.

[OldSkoO1]

I think you need to give yourself some credit here Oldskool, you seem to understand how to operate your cars for economy.

Cheers mate, i think it's second nature now the way i drive. It certainly isn't slow either :)

And don't worry, i also take it for a blast along my favourite route. A police drive training route which i've driven many times, just down the road from me, it's a stunning drive and i'm even getting 36mpg in sports manual mode with the flappy paddles over 40 excellent gusto driven miles.