T180 Mpg Still Lower Than Expected

[Rick D4D]

Got the letter Today, I wont go into to much detail as TBH I cant be bothered to type all the letter up but to keep this simple this is what Toyota found

The vehicle was then driven 30miles on a A road and the average speed was recorded at 49mph and the MPG was 46.9

Not happy this is 20% short of the extra urban figure Toyota quote and was the best MPG they achieved and was also using shell V power diesel to get this, I have spoken to Toyota (or the guy who wrote the report) who have also said that the extra urban figure should be ignored as this is not achievable in the real world and there are no problems with the car.

Well after going to Swindon and back this weekend I have realised how Toyota got such good MPG figures, the report will say they did 30miles on a A road but these AA roads have very little junctions. For example I reset all the trips then pull out of the services onto the M1 and do 10miles before turning off on to the A42 where again I do around 20 miles before pulling off into the services doing around 65mph on cruise control, funny enough I get very similar results to Toyota but in my opinion this is extra urban driving but still only get combined MPG results. Then I remember the guy who wrote the report says that the extra urban figure is not really achievable in the real world so ignore that and work to the combined figure.

My point is how they conducted the test was they should have been achieving the extra urban results and was not fair or proper test for combined driving and should have been around 100miles with A and B roads that have junctions and traffic lights and a bit of town driving not just A and B roads that are very very open and to be fair more like motorway conditions. I will say is to be expected but was it right or fair? I don't think so but then again what can you do about it? nothing as I can see but for sure the next car we buy will be a long 24hr test drive if possible so I know exactly what we get.

[Djw John]

I wish I could say I was surprised to see this still rumbling on but I'm afraid I'm not.

I can only imagine the embarrassment that would be involved in Toyota admitting that their diesel cars are horribly uneconomical and that factor plays a part in them denying such an issue so vigarously.

As some of you might remember my SR180 struggled to get above 40mpg and was usually around the 35mpg mark. When going to Inverness (180miles mostly A road,av speed about 55mph) the SR18- got about 39mpg iirc. I recently did the exact same journey, at the same time of year with similar traffic at a similar pace in my latest Clio 172. Any guesses what I got?

46.5mpg. From a high performance, fully loaded up with luggage hot hatch. With the air con on. And its faster ;)

Its a shame as I will no doubt miss out on some decent cars in the future but the chances of me buying another Toyota are slim to nil when I see that not only was mine not an isolated case but the issue shows absolutly no signs of being resolved despite the best efforts of some of you on here. Its a real shame.

John

[boozehound]

get a scirocco ;)

[Rick D4D]

get a scirocco ;)

Maybe you could share your excellent advice on a VW forum ;) I would also point out that for maybe 5MPG I swap the car like you for a new Scirocco well lets look at this,

1. we use around £20 of diesel a week / 125miles so this = 17litres / 3.75 gallons of fuel, the car under performs by 5MPG / 19 miles a week for the journey type we mainly do.

2. now that cost us in diesel around £2.70 per week through under achievement of mpg or shall we say the cost of running a very clean environmental friendly diesel.

Now I take you brilliant advice and I bet for sure it cost us a lot more than £2.70 a week to swap the T180 for what you have so I think that's not such a great idea, I don't fault you for having nice things etc but I wont be spending around £50 per week more just to say £2.70 worth of diesel as only a fool would do that and I would also like to point out that when the winter comes your Scirocco will do very well to get 20MPG on short journeys and I do not what I am talking about as when I owned the CTR this was only getting around 15MPG on short cold runs in the winter even through it was still half decent on a long run.

[Djw John]

Na look lovely but I'm happy with my lot. For now ;)

[boozehound]

Rick, in the northwest unleaded petroleum is 4p a litre cheaper than diesel so the extra expense wouldnt be as grear as your making out. Dont worry, i fully partake in the club gti and vw forums. I have to disagree with you over the 20mpg in winter figure though. The CTR engine and the 2.0tsi engine are completely different, for one the tsi engine is turbocharged unlike the ctr engine. According the vw and club gti forums the new 207bhp engine (the one i have) does not appear to get any less than 25-26 mpg in winter so long has the heated seats are not switched on. Thats good enough for me. I believe oldskool pointed out a while back that the scirocco would cost 4 pounds a week more to run than the t180 which up to now is about right. Peanuts.

[Rick D4D]

I believe oldskool pointed out a while back that the scirocco would cost 4 pounds a week more to run than the t180 which up to now is about right. Peanuts.

Yes but a £30k car cost a lot more per month than a T180 and I would guess at around £400-£500pm you pay that is a lot of money and either way that is a running cost. When we bought the T180 it was 15month old with 15k on the clock and at the height of credit crunch so we only paid £11k and yes I have the car on Toyota finance as to be honest paying of the mortgage is more important than buying a car. So far over the last 11 years this has worked for me and I now have less than 2 years on the mortgage, we only pay £220pm for the T180 which in my opinion was and is great value but could you say the same about the Scirocco? The answer will be no as just like your T180 you stand to loose a very lot of money over the next 3 years which I would guess to be around the £15k mark but then again you may get a lot of pleasure from your car but it does come at a very high price.

So all in I think your advice for better MPG to buy a Scirocco is wide of the mark as not only does the cost of buying the car cost a lot of money but on top of that you are now saying that it also costs around £4pw more on fuel even through you have stated that it does better MPG. These facts dont add up as a car that has better MPG would not cost £4pw more for fuel that is also 4ppl cheaper.

[boozehound]

well speak to old skool then. Not tru about 400 quid a month though. I had a few bob to put down on the car before i took it out on finance, my scirocco costs 300 quid a month :D and i took it on finance, not contract hire this time. So at least i will own the car after 4 years lol. Well we shall have to agree to disagree.

[Rick D4D]

well speak to old skool then. Not true about 400 quid a month though. I had a few bob to put down on the car before i took it out on finance, my scirocco costs 300 quid a month :D and i took it on finance, not contract hire this time. So at least i will own the car after 4 years lol. Well we shall have to agree to disagree.

So at 300pm with no interest over 4 years that is only £14400 so you either paid a very high deposit (around £18k) which is still lost money you will never see / running costs just like my deposit was or you took a PCD deal where in 4 years time you still owe X amount of pounds or you give the car back and walk away.

My point is all this money is still a running cost and even through the T180 MPG is not as good as it should be, the point is if you swap the car for the same you recommend / advice you will loose hell of a lot more money than you do by loosing around 5MPG to the DPF.

Now if that suites you then that's fine and I hope you enjoy your car but for us the car is just a nice practical tool rather than a must have object for showing all the world we have a few quid.

[boozehound]

Fella if you wanted something practical instead of getting something to "show off" to other people you would have went for a lower powered diesel. The T180 is still showing off, what with its 17inch alloys, the 180 Badge etc.

[Rick D4D]

Fella if you wanted something practical instead of getting something to "show off" to other people you would have went for a lower powered diesel. The T180 is still showing off, what with its 17inch alloys, the 180 badge etc.

No mate I would have kept the Type R or bought a new Type R and compared to that the T180 is very very bland the fact was when we looked at the Auris the T180 was what we saw first and we liked what we saw, little did I know at the time that the T180 was Toyota's version of an Hot Hatch but I thought it was more like a Golf TD with the decent diesel engine and not the Golf GTDI if you know what I mean. Yes we like nice things but unlike you I am not prepared to loose tens of thousands of pounds on a car just to have the bees knees as no matter what you buy they all are all worth next to nothing after around 15 years.

Cars are very nice but bricks and mortar are a lot better investment always have been and always will be and I will be very lucky that in around 2 years I will live rent / mortgage free until I buy a second property.....

[boozehound]

Property is not really a sound investment, look at what happend in the 1980's and what is happening now? Property prices falling etc. EG semi detached house in liverpool in a decent area 4years ago 189-190k, now you will be lucky to get 130k. Cars do depreciate mate absolutly no doubt, but bricks and mortar is still exposed to market factors. And i wouldnt call the scirocco gt the bees nees, if i had my way i would have a bmw m6 or the scirocco R but we cant always get what we want can we. And i hardly call buying a new type R practical if thats what your after. Your t180 will be getting more mpg than your old type r or even a new one. Im not going to loose thousands of pounds fella because im going to keep the scirocco once ive paid it off :) and then ill buy something else hopefull God Sparing.

[Rick D4D]

According the vw and club gti forums the new 207bhp engine (the one i have) does not appear to get any less than 25-26 mpg in winter

Well you cant even get that in the summer and only average 22.5MPG http://www.fuelly.com/driver/boozehound/scirocco I suspect 15MPG is on its way in the winter months with cold short journeys ;) I think this shows even through you insist on giving advice to buy a Scirrco to get better MPG the fact is this is worse and just like with the T180 the MPG figures you get are a long way short of what VW quote for your 2.0 TSI 210PS http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/scirocco/which-model/engines/fuel-consumption

[boozehound]

the engine is still bedding in fella so of course the fuel figures are not totally accurrate. Car has only just hit 700 miles. You know this, come on now.

[Rick D4D]

the engine is still bedding in fella so of course the fuel figures are not totally accurrate. Car has only just hit 700 miles. You know this, come on now.

Mate if the engine was that tight that you are loosing anything from 7-17 mpg then I think its seized not tight and another point to note is that every time you fill up the mpg get less and less even through you are using super unleaded fuel. Engines now days are not really that tight and require running in even through they do loosen a little with mileage but one thing for sure is your MPG figures are not down to a tight engine for the amount they are below the quoted figure.

[OldSkoO1]

I'm not sure running in is a factor so much these days. The engines are run in from the factory so gone are the days of increased internal friction from the cylinder walls.

VW, like any other manufacturer will claim improved fuel economy and lower co2 with each incarnation of an engine/model - as they finely tune the ECU and use thinner oil / tolerances all to look good on paper, impossible to re-create on the road. But the basic fact is, it still uses the same TSI lump that has been used in many other VAG cars which consistently returns high 20's to low 30's. With about 28mpg being the sweet spot for shorter mixed journeys and 32 or even 34 on longer 70mph journeys.

If your getting high 20's, your in the right ball park.

Changing cars will be a much bigger expensive, not even in the same league. However, live to your means. I have no right to tell anyone how to live and what to spend their money on. Depending on your mileage, if your MPG is low you might loose out on £3-5 each fill.

The way i look at it is, if i can afford to change and i want to change i will. I lost about 7k on my T180, just on depreciation. But, i know, that my earnings allow me to cover that loss x-times over in savings over the 3 years of ownership. The t180 was my first new car purchase and i always buy my cars cash. I won't buy new again. But i just bought a 43k car for just over 20k. I waited a long time for this to come along and i've minimized my depreciation by getting the right deal. The guy selling it had 2 days left to clear his finance. So i paid it off for him and gave him just £560!!!! Anyway, i know i'm still set to loose what, maybe another 7k in 3 years on this car. It's low mileage too. But i know in 3 years my savings at my current earnings rate will be x-times that. That's how i work when buying cars.

It just so happened to work out that i budgeted for 30mpg on this new car. So i expected to pay an extra £20 or £30 a month, can't remember which now. But as it turns out i'm actually doing 40+ and even better when on the m-way compared to the t180.

So, my cost to change was still A LOT but... i have the cash, i minimise my depreciation buy finding the right deal (i literally waited months), and i know my earnings can cover the loss. Yes i could just say i'll buy a banger and take a bath in £10 notes everyday. Our mortgage is low anyway and if i ever needed a lot of cash the car is a luxury and will be the first thing to go. I guess it's similar to people who take out PCP deals. Don't think of the losses, if you can afford it and you want it, do it.

:)

[boozehound]

only time shall tell my friend

[Rick D4D]

So, my cost to change was still A LOT but... i have the cash, i minimise my depreciation buy finding the right deal (i literally waited months), and i know my earnings can cover the loss. Yes i could just say i'll buy a banger and take a bath in £10 notes everyday. Our mortgage is low anyway and if i ever needed a lot of cash the car is a luxury and will be the first thing to go. I guess it's similar to people who take out PCP deals. Don't think of the losses, if you can afford it and you want it, do it.

:)

This is exactly how I look a car is a luxury that we like but are not prepared to loose stupid amounts of cash on it so we set a target payment of no more than £250pm when buying the T180 and due to returning the CTR under halves rule as I was only being offered £4k for a car that 7 months earlier I was offered £10k in a trade in then we decided we would only pay as little deposit as possible unless the deal was very good. In the end we paid £500 deposit and £220pm so I think we got a great deal but the salesman really pushed to try and get us on a pcp deal but this worked out around £25pm more just so I can give the car back in 3 years and walk away not owing a penny, we also looked at leasing a car but due to this being a brand new car that depreciates a lot in the first 2 years this worked out more expensive. We went with the straight forward finance deal as this gave the best options and cheapest payments as after 2.5years I could still give the car back and walk away using halves rule but this saves us £20pm over a pcp deal http://www.civinfo.com/forum/buying-dealers-servicing/21858-returning-car-vt-under-halves-rule.html. The way I looked at this is we paid £500 and are like leasing the car for 2.5 years at that time I either give it back using halves rule and walk away, trade it in or keep paying for another 2.5 years until we 100% own it but one thing for sure was on a lease we could only get a crappy fiesta for what we pay a month on the T180.

To be honest I would prefer to be able to pay cash but like the wife says if you have debt you should not have much savings as debt costs a lot more than savings make so we have concentrated on overpaying the mortgage which has gone very well and will be 100% home owner by the time I am 37 (2 years) and with having more spare cash than we would if we paid a lot for a car we can afford to take more than one holiday a year as well as going out a lot.

[dervdave]

I lost about 7k on my T180, just on depreciation. But, i know, that my earnings allow me to cover that loss x-times over in savings over the 3 years of ownership. The t180 was my first new car purchase and i always buy my cars cash. I won't buy new again. But i just bought a 43k car for just over 20k. I waited a long time for this to come along and i've minimized my depreciation by getting the right deal.

Yeah sure you lost on depreciation but you also had 3 yrs cover from your manufacturers warranty wherein lies the problem with your £43/20k bargain whose warranty has probably expired and possibly leaving you to foot any repair bills of an older car which will be commiserate with the price of the car new.

[OldSkoO1]

I lost about 7k on my T180, just on depreciation. But, i know, that my earnings allow me to cover that loss x-times over in savings over the 3 years of ownership. The t180 was my first new car purchase and i always buy my cars cash. I won't buy new again. But i just bought a 43k car for just over 20k. I waited a long time for this to come along and i've minimized my depreciation by getting the right deal.

Yeah sure you lost on depreciation but you also had 3 yrs cover from your manufacturers warranty wherein lies the problem with your £43/20k bargain whose warranty has probably expired and possibly leaving you to foot any repair bills of an older car which will be commiserate with the price of the car new.

That's all sorted, i extended the BMW warranty for £346 P/A fully comp with 24 hr emergency break down cover.

I would never by an expensive car without a warranty, especially something with a high pressure fuel rail, 3litre twin turbo straight six. The repairs would be astronomical. Thats why i specifically wanted/waited for a lower miles car. Because i can extend the warranty for £346 until 60k miles and then it almost doubles in price. But i'm unlikely to hit 60k after 3 years on my mileage and i tend to keep cars i like for a max of 3 years. But that might change with this car :)

[boozehound]

is right kidda, is right

[dervdave]

That's all sorted, i extended the BMW warranty for £346 P/A fully comp with 24 hr emergency break down cover.

Thats very reasonable !

I`m paying over £1.1k a year for the Jaguar extended warranty on my 55 plate 18k miles S type.

[lightrightfoot]

Well to be honest I dont know why I bother? a lot of people moan about the MPG so when ours is bad I post all the info and keep everything updated so everyone knows what is happening and judging by the amount of views and replies it feels as I am typing to myself :(

I just dont know why I bother

Rick,

I have just purchased a 180T and found your posting very interesting and helpful. I am going to clean the ERG valve ASAP, but have one question.

do Toyota give torque wrench settings for ehe bolts concerned?

regards

LRF

[Rick D4D]

Well to be honest I dont know why I bother? a lot of people moan about the MPG so when ours is bad I post all the info and keep everything updated so everyone knows what is happening and judging by the amount of views and replies it feels as I am typing to myself :(

I just dont know why I bother

Rick,

I have just purchased a 180T and found your posting very interesting and helpful. I am going to clean the ERG valve ASAP, but have one question.

do Toyota give torque wrench settings for ehe bolts concerned?

regards

LRF

I just unbolted and re bolted it done tight if you know what I mean, I will be honest in the end / earlier this week we got rid of the T180 for a Honda CRZ

[lightrightfoot]

Well to be honest I dont know why I bother? a lot of people moan about the MPG so when ours is bad I post all the info and keep everything updated so everyone knows what is happening and judging by the amount of views and replies it feels as I am typing to myself :(

I just dont know why I bother

Rick,

I have just purchased a 180T and found your posting very interesting and helpful. I am going to clean the ERG valve ASAP, but have one question.

do Toyota give torque wrench settings for ehe bolts concerned?

regards

LRF

I just unbolted and re bolted it done tight if you know what I mean, I will be honest in the end / earlier this week we got rid of the T180 for a Honda CRZ

Thanks, best of luck with the Honda