20,000 Mile Servive Problem

[Grumpy Cabbie]

My car has just had its 20,000 mile service the other day and is now not running like it did/should!

Last time I got my car serviced they put the wrong oil in (not 0w20) and the car was slightly less economical in that I couldn't get to 60 mpg on a run, and the engine was a little bit more sluggish and slightly hesitant. The dealers called me back advising that they weren't 100% sure they'd put the right oil in and changed it for 0w20 and low and behold all the problems went away immediately and I have since managed my best mpg of 72mpg for a round trip to York.

Well after getting my car back from service yesterday I find that it is relecting the above problems. The invoice has billed me for 0w20 oil, but the car is not running the same as it did before. The engine is every so slightly hesitant, it doesn't pull away in Power as quickly but does sound smoother as though the oil is thicker. Also, after a trip to Leeds I couldn't get more than 52 mpg out of the car! They left my copy of their service sheet in with the invoice to probably show they'd followed the rules, but the service sheet was for the NHW20 model years 2003-2009 and not the NHW30 2009- model! Are the service requirements the same? Or should they have replaced things on the NHW30 that were not needed on the gen2? Does the NHW20 use 15w30 oil and they've probably put that in by mistake?

How do I go to a dealers and say that I think they've used the wrong oil again! I know they have used the wrong stuff, but I know I'll be getting one big fob off if I go back yet again. It's crazy, Toyota spend millions of £ on designing a super economical car only to be at the mercy of the weakest link in the chain - the mechanic who thinks oils are all pretty much the same. I guess they are on a 1996 Toyota Carina, but the Prius is a different kettle of fish and my experiences show that wrong oil reduces economy. I am down about 60 miles on this tank already which doesn't sound a lot, but I fill up 2-3 times a week and 60 miles is about £6. As such this wrong oil is costing me £18 a week or just short of a grand a year in fuel!!

Has anyone else had similar experiences? and who has any advice of how to diplomatically explain to the dealers that they !Removed! done it wrong again! In their defence I will add that the chief technician is very knowledgeable and was the one who instigated the call back last time to put in 0w20 oil.

[kithmo]

What you're saying sounds right, but the problem is, how to prove it's the wrong oil if they say it is the 0W/20 they put in.

I would go back and ask politely and if they say they put the right oil in, it may be more economical for you in the long run, if you're losing £18 a week, to buy some more 0W/20 and change it yourself, leaving the new filter as it is.

[Ancient Nerd]

My car has just had its 20,000 mile service the other day and is now not running like it did/should!

Last time I got my car serviced they put the wrong oil in (not 0w20) and the car was slightly less economical in that I couldn't get to 60 mpg on a run, and the engine was a little bit more sluggish and slightly hesitant. The dealers called me back advising that they weren't 100% sure they'd put the right oil in and changed it for 0w20 and low and behold all the problems went away immediately and I have since managed my best mpg of 72mpg for a round trip to York.

Well after getting my car back from service yesterday I find that it is relecting the above problems. The invoice has billed me for 0w20 oil, but the car is not running the same as it did before. The engine is every so slightly hesitant, it doesn't pull away in Power as quickly but does sound smoother as though the oil is thicker. Also, after a trip to Leeds I couldn't get more than 52 mpg out of the car! They left my copy of their service sheet in with the invoice to probably show they'd followed the rules, but the service sheet was for the NHW20 model years 2003-2009 and not the NHW30 2009- model! Are the service requirements the same? Or should they have replaced things on the NHW30 that were not needed on the gen2? Does the NHW20 use 15w30 oil and they've probably put that in by mistake?

How do I go to a dealers and say that I think they've used the wrong oil again! I know they have used the wrong stuff, but I know I'll be getting one big fob off if I go back yet again. It's crazy, Toyota spend millions of £ on designing a super economical car only to be at the mercy of the weakest link in the chain - the mechanic who thinks oils are all pretty much the same. I guess they are on a 1996 Toyota Carina, but the Prius is a different kettle of fish and my experiences show that wrong oil reduces economy. I am down about 60 miles on this tank already which doesn't sound a lot, but I fill up 2-3 times a week and 60 miles is about £6. As such this wrong oil is costing me £18 a week or just short of a grand a year in fuel!!

Has anyone else had similar experiences? and who has any advice of how to diplomatically explain to the dealers that they !Removed! done it wrong again! In their defence I will add that the chief technician is very knowledgeable and was the one who instigated the call back last time to put in 0w20 oil.

If you trust the dealer, go back, explain what's happening. They'll probably realise they've made a mistake and change the oil. It's an understandable mistake, as apparently the techs were originally instructed to use 5W-30.

Otherwise, you can do a quick and dirty viscosity test to check the oil grade

1. Get a bottle lid and drill a small hole in the bottom
   
2. Get a small container (1 litre) of 0w-20 oil from your dealer
   
3. Fill the lid with oil
   
4. Measure how long for the oil to run out. If it takes longer than 5 minutes, you need a bigger hole!
   
5. Now get some oil from the car via the dipstick hole (use a thin plastic tube, a bit longer than the dipstick - poke it down the hole, finger over the end and lift)
   
6. Repeat fill the lid and get run out time. (Make sure the oil is the same temperature (not from a hot engine.)
   
7. If the times are roughly the same, the oils are the same grade.
   
8. If the oil from the car takes longer, then they've charged for 0W-20 and used much cheaper 5W-30 or similar.
   

You might even find the car oil is visibly thicker. 0w-20 is very thin indeed.

[Parts-King]

I would go in and speak to the Service Manager directly and explain that the exact same problems are happening after this service, as they did with the previous service and explain the wrong oil was used. Be firm but polite and ask him to explain why your poor performance and fuel consumption happened immeadiatly after the service? If he cannot explain then say that you think the wrong oil had been used and you would like it changed for 0w20 just to be on the safe side. If he refuses, tell him you will have the oil analysed and if it is found to be wrong you will be looking for a full reimbursement, including costs. Firm but polite is the way forward, and speak to the manager directly not some service receptionist, ring up and make an appointment to see him at a specific time, that will focus his attention on the job in hand!

Kingo

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Kingo,

Before I do this can you clarify whether the service requirements of the gen3 and gen2 are the same? Were they correct to have followed the NHW20 service plan? My understanding is that the pollen filter should be renewed on the gen3 20k service and this wasn't done.

Would rather get my facts right first.

[Parts-King]

I think what they have used is the NWH20 service sheet, I cannot find a specific NWH30 sheet, looking at the system menus, they look the same. It doesnt say on the menu when the pollen filters are changed, we inspect on every service and if dirty, replace. I dont have a service book to hand, does it mention it in the service book?

Kingo

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Think it was in the Service Book but it did just say check/replace. I suppose they're onto a loser. If they replace and charge £10 some customers will kick off and if they don't replace then the other customers kick off. Maybe I should have specified I wanted it replacing, but then again, it's only a two min diy job so I might go get one myself.

Will give the service manager guy a ring now and see how they want to play it.

[timberwolf]

I think what they have used is the NWH20 service sheet, I cannot find a specific NWH30 sheet, looking at the system menus, they look the same. It doesnt say on the menu when the pollen filters are changed, we inspect on every service and if dirty, replace. I dont have a service book to hand, does it mention it in the service book?

Kingo

It probably doesn't make any difference at all, but I thought the Gen 3 model number began with a Z?

[Sagitar]

I think what they have used is the NWH20 service sheet, I cannot find a specific NWH30 sheet, looking at the system menus, they look the same. It doesnt say on the menu when the pollen filters are changed, we inspect on every service and if dirty, replace. I dont have a service book to hand, does it mention it in the service book?

Kingo

It probably doesn't make any difference at all, but I thought the Gen 3 model number began with a Z?

I am sure you are right. The Gen3 is annotated ZVW30

[Parts-King]

Sorry I was in a rush when I typed that up last night, the new Prius is indeed ZVW30

Kingo

[Jolly English Gentleman]

Are the service requirements the same? Or should they have replaced things on the NHW30 that were not needed on the gen2? Does the NHW20 use 15w30 oil and they've probably put that in by mistake?

Per the Owners Handbook for my 2nd gen acceptable oil grades are 20W-50 and 15W-40 multigrade and 10W-30 and 5W-30 energy conserving oil. The main choice is probably the first as it is recommended down to minus 7 deg C. The other three have a lower minimum temperature threshold.

Hope that helps, although no doubt by now you are probably sorted.

Has Parts King got any thoughts on the energy conserving oils? Do they work? If so I'll specify the best option when my service is due.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Update: They've replaced my oil with 0W20 (though they were adsolutely adamant they put it in the first time!) and the car now runs fine.

Why it ran strange after the 20k service despite apparantly having the correct oil in it and now runs sweet after having the service manager put 0w20 in when I was there beats me. I'm not able to prove anything either way but I'll leave you all to make your own minds up!

I am now happy that the car is running sweet again, but not happy that on both times my car has been serviced I have had problems.

I know mistakes are made and maybe the garage were trying to save face and I will give them the benefit of the doubt this time. If it happens on the third service I will kick off big style and make my disatisfaction known to them, Toyota UK and any of my passengers who ask how I find the car (and I get asked many times daily).

Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me!

[Mkuk0]

Living up to your nom de plume eh? ;)

On a related note, you mentioned pollen filters earlier, anyone know where I can find mine on my Gen II? Handbook is no help, usual Toyota practice is behind glove box, but I have not had a chance to check yet.

Cheers

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Living up to your nom de plume eh? ;)

I have only one thing to to say to that....

:P

[Seaweed Sandals]

Grumpy Cabbie.......my kinda guy. I'm new to this forum but have observed some very helpful and useful information about the Prius. Had a Gen 2 for 3 years (41000 miles) and just got a Gen3. Grumpy Cabbie's concerns over servicing irregularities are well founded. Please remember Toyota 'Main' (so called) Dealers are no more than a franchise. They are required to fulfill certain requirements ie showroom decor and seating arrangement, coffee machine etc. Whether they are able to execute competent servicing is another question. Sure, the Prius is a little unusual but it is not the space-shuttle. This is the 21st century and there are numerous really good and competant independent garages out there who can adequately satisfy the Prius service requirements. OK, the trick is finding one......same trick as finding a competent 'main' dealer. Pity so much store is put on a 'main' dealer service history for 2nd hand vehicles. I now await the wrath of Toyota 'main' dealers.

[Dave R.]

Think it was in the Service Book but it did just say check/replace. I suppose they're onto a loser. If they replace and charge £10 some customers will kick off and if they don't replace then the other customers kick off. Maybe I should have specified I wanted it replacing, but then again, it's only a two min diy job so I might go get one myself.

Will give the service manager guy a ring now and see how they want to play it.

Just had my Gen III through a 20,000 mile service.... according to the tick sheet (which is a few years old, so not Gen III specific) there is no mention of the pollen filter. The handbook, on the other hand, is quite clear that the filter should be replaced at 20,000 miles (with some variation if you do/don't have a solar roof).

As mine is a company car, arguments about servicing are handled by the leasing company, so I guess the pollen filter will have to wait until the next service.

[AP01]

Does anyone know a dealer who has put the correct (0W20) oil into the car during service without being asked or prompted to do so?

[stompe]

Does anyone know a dealer who has put the correct (0W20) oil into the car during service without being asked or prompted to do so?

I phoned ahead and reminded them!

[johalareewi]

Does anyone know a dealer who has put the correct (0W20) oil into the car during service without being asked or prompted to do so?

Mine did - Kings @ Hedge End

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Does anyone here work for Toyota?

Just that this seems to be a problem as some dealers are sticking to 0w20 and others are letting the side down. Maybe it's a training issue? Do some mechanics just think "stuff it, oil is oil, I've been doing this jobs 10 years....etc etc"? Previously I've known my past cars to be fairly tollerant to different oil types, but this Prius is the first one I've had that is so sensitive to it. Perhaps a service bulletin could stress the correct oil to the Service Departments?

[Fluffmeister]

Bentley's in Warrington, my Service manager was in the know, service reception, parts, technicians ........ clueless. Service manager there is brilliant by the way, they just need to make sure the information is passed down the chain.

[Parts-King]

I think one of the early problems was that MOST dealers use a computer system called V8, All servicing jobs are on menus and the menus did not have the correct oil listed. It was OK for somebody in the know who could change the menu to the correct oil grade, but if you had somebody unaware (like in a callcentre) then they would price and print up the jobcard with the wrong grade oil. Yes when it gets to the mechanic he should be aware and I'm not trying to make excuses but I think thats where SOME problems occured at the beginning. It should not be an issue as the menus have been updated

Kingo

[Car Enthusiast]

Does anyone know a dealer who has put the correct (0W20) oil into the car during service without being asked or prompted to do so?

Mine did - Kings @ Hedge End

Hi J

My T3 was supplied by this dealer last September and I will shortly be arranging the First Service. If you don`t mind me asking, if yours was also a First Service, can you tell me how much they charged - incl VAT?

Also, did you ask them to change the reverse beeps to a single beep and if so did they do it for free?

Many thanks.

[bobm]

When I took delivery of my new Gen 3..the Service department came to introduce themselves and then had a chat about servicing and etc.......they all knew about the oil situation and the requirements of the oil for the new Prius......was well pleased.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Does anyone know a dealer who has put the correct (0W20) oil into the car during service without being asked or prompted to do so?

Mine did - Kings @ Hedge End

Hi J

My T3 was supplied by this dealer last September and I will shortly be arranging the First Service. If you don`t mind me asking, if yours was also a First Service, can you tell me how much they charged - incl VAT?

Also, did you ask them to change the reverse beeps to a single beep and if so did they do it for free?

Many thanks.

I think I paid £160 or £180 for my first service. Can't quite remember now. I asked for the reverse beep to be turned to the single beep when I first collected the car when new. They did it for free. Apparantly it's a simple task to do.