Failed Mot

[johnbkr]

HI I AM A NEW MEMBER WITH A PROBLEM

FAILED MOT TODAY. APPARENTLY 4 SENSORS IN EXHUAST ONE OF WHICH SHOWS FAULT I THINK IT IS CALLED LAMBA TEST

ANYWAY GARAGE SAYS THEY ARE £200 EACH, AND MIGHT END UP FITTING ALL 4 WITH A TOTAL BILL OF £1000

THIS SEEMS LIKE MADNESS. THATS HALF AN ENGINE OR GEARBOX. HAS ANYONE OUT THERE HAD THIS PROBLEM?

THANKS JOHN

[anchorman]

Many people have this problem and many people are shocked at the price. If they tell you what the fault code is we may be able to tell you which one to try first. Keep in mind that it is a bit of trial and error and that the best ones tend to be genuine Toyota although there are some owners here that might give you more guidance about alternatives.

Welcome to the club and as we are all librarians we like it quiet so stop shouting (capitals!!!).

[johnbkr]

Hi Anchorman, thanks for reply.

Mechanic in garage said his machine told him which sensor was faulty. But apparantly computor puts settings back to default. Thus it quite often it is not the one that it shows.(or words to that effect) hence they can go through them all to find bad one. If i did change one sensor I would not know wether it had cured problem without it being put back on their machine.

I hope you can make sense of this.

regards John

[anchorman]

It does John but you have to start somewhere. Go for the one it tells you and keep your fingers crossed. It doesn't sound very scientific but it will hopefully be OK.

Sorry I can't be any more reassuring.

[bitman]

i have used sensors from these guys and had no problems...

[johnbkr]

thanks bitman, sensors are cheaper on link you gave me.

re your post on 15th april, is it really that easy just to test for an open circuit on sensor.

john

[bitman]

that what i did.

i have an obd-ii reader but i wanted to be sure to replace the right sensor. so i took my multimeter out put it on Ohm's and checked them all 4. only one did give me an another reading and that was the same as i got with the obd-ii reader / code.

as i don't know your vehicle i can only give me my experience...

[pmb]

I'm a bit confused by this. Are you saying that the engine management light is not on? What normally happens is the heater circuit (black wires) goes o/c instead of 15 ohms , that brings the light on but don't think it's an mot failure on it's own. I also don't understand the bit about the code reader resetting itself without being told to do so. There are other codes with the sensors such as no activity. If you look in the general section of the toyota forum there is a list of members willing to read codes for you. (must add myself to it) Maybe you could add your location and vehicle age to your profile.

[bitman]

indeed, it's not wise to bring a vehicle to the MOT with an engine management light on

[johnbkr]

Thanks for replies

I have tested all 4 on multimeter all show an open circuit across all 4 wires on each sensor. cannot be all 4 gone?. there are no error lights coming on (never has been}. all i have is printout from mot showing failure on 1st and 2nd fast idle test. local garage can plug it in their machine for £35 probably try that for starts

my car is 2002 vx auto petrol. and i live in west wickham (bromley)

[pmb]

If there is no light on then I don't know what would be gained by plugging a code reader in especially if any previous fault code has been erased unless the professional kit can access parameters for each sensor. (cleverer minds may know better) No idea what resistance you would get across other than the heater circuit. It has been known for people to disconnect the light , does it come on at start up then go off like it should? At my last mot with 43k on the clock it gave fast idle test (between 2500-3000) CO 0.01 (max 0.2) HC 5 (max 200) lambda 1.002 (range 0.97-1.03) There is a natural idle test where for some reason the CO limit is increased but no 2nd fast idle on my slip (perhaps you get two chances?). Thought I'd put my figures in as engine is same age.

[johnbkr]

Hi all

the light comes on when ignition turned on and goes off when engine started. It has never come on whilst driving.

I feel sure the 2nd test was a double check. my readings on printout are identicle to yours.the car is running perfectly well. I dont understand the going back to default bit either,, but that was how it was explained to me at that time. I think i will get readout from other garage, and ask plenty of questions then go on from there.

I will post again when i know more john

[pmb]

From what you were saying I was expecting the LAMBDA to be out of range. Whereabouts does it say fail on the narrow slip of paper? At the bottom is an overall result. Now I'm more confused (could be age though). Bring back carbs....

[johnbkr]

Hi pmb

at bottom of emissions test paper it says. overall result---exhaust emissions test- failed

on the fast idle check it shows CO-0.30-pass. 2nd line HC-200--2 ppm vol--pass

3rd line (like an upside down y) 0.97 1.056--fail. and same for 2nd idle test. funny enough i have same figures for previous tests that passed ok. I hope to be a lot wiser tomorrow?

JOHN

[pmb]

Yes that is the LAMBDA test(upside down Y in greek) Needs to be between 0.97-1.03 but as to why it's not I can't answer. If you google mot lambda test you should get some pointers but with your 1.056 reading it definately fails. Over to the mechanics on here...

[bitman]

Thanks for replies

I have tested all 4 on multimeter all show an open circuit across all 4 wires on each sensor. cannot be all 4 gone?. there are no error lights coming on (never has been}. all i have is printout from mot showing failure on 1st and 2nd fast idle test. local garage can plug it in their machine for £35 probably try that for starts

my car is 2002 vx auto petrol. and i live in west wickham (bromley)

it's hard to beleave that they are all shot, also this will trigger the engine error light for sure if true.

at the moment the rav 4 is at work including swmbo so if i don't for get i will drop my multimeter on it tomorrow to see how much ohm you should have on a correct sensor. on top of my head it was about 12 Ohm but not sure. just make sure it's on Ohm!

to check your engine error light just unplug one and start the enigne. this should show the yellow engine error light to show up. but then you will have a error code in the ecu and the light will say on :o

[johnbkr]

HI ALL

Just thought I would keep you updated on this problem. Took car to other garage he confirmed lambda emmisions failure, by testing again. He then plugged in code reader but found it would not associate with my car(or a word like that)

he tried other toyota software etc, but still got no joy. He then tried getting readings with a multimeter on sensor wires but results were inconclusve. he suggested i go to main dealer with their more advanced machines etc.

luckily he did not charge me so i gave him a drink.

anyway next day i got a mobile chap who specialises in code reading and diagnostics to look into problem.

He had same result, could not connect with car. He also could not understand why my fault light had never come on. whilst talking to him i mentioned that a new computor was fitted in 2006, this led him to the theory that a japanese computor was fitted possibly because that is all that was avaible at that time. And if so it has got different settings to uk one. So i have booked it into main dealer to see what they can make of it.

ps--I will keep you informed john

[anchorman]

Hi John

It is well documented that the early RAVs (with oblong spot lamp and not round) are not OBD compliant and can not be read by a conventional reader. You can however get it to flash a code at you by shorting two of the wires in the plug. I'm away fro home at the mo but maybe one of the others can show the pdf of the process.

[pmb]

Hi John

It is well documented that the early RAVs (with oblong spot lamp and not round) are not OBD compliant and can not be read by a conventional reader. You can however get it to flash a code at you by shorting two of the wires in the plug. I'm away fro home at the mo but maybe one of the others can show the pdf of the process.

My sept 2002 VX manual with oblong fogs can be read by a standard reader , thought it was a bit earlier than this that there were issues? Aren't all new cars worldwide now compliant so I don't understand why a Jap computer can't be read?

[anchorman]

Petrols went over earlier than diesels. Maybe petrol auto's were also later?

[pmb]

Petrols went over earlier than diesels. Maybe petrol auto's were also later?

Yes I wondered that. Maybe find out tomorrow?

[johnbkr]

My car has got oblong foglights. It was first registered in march 2002, so it could be early version?

john

[johnbkr]

Hi all. AN UPDATE ON MY SENSOR SAGA.

Took to mr T, today they had no problem reading codes etc, he said some times other code reader machines ( IE local garages) do not work with this car. this is what they found-- po161(b252) p1150--(b151) p1135-(b151)

p1155--(b251). Apparently this means 2 sensors have gone wrong and 1 sensor has got 2 faults?

they have quoted me £1200, to replace all 4 sensors. Blimey i thought, then he tells me sometimes you have great problems with the sensors in the cat converter, rusted in etc which means it may need a new cat at a cost of £810. total bill could end up £2000. when i recovered i went online and ordered 4 sensors from hgl motors

(thankyou bitman) for £387.76 express delivery included, and being an ex mechanic i will tackle it myself.

If i do need new cat kwik fit will do it for £710. incidentally nobody at mr T could understand why the management light has never come on? wish me luck john

[anchorman]

incidentally nobody at mr T could understand why the management light has never come on? wish me luck john

Its worrying isn't it?

You can buy a special socket with a slot cut out for the wire;

http://www.avenue35.co.uk/shopping/products/201-other-tools/14632-draper-22mm-oxygen-sensor-socket-in/

It will help if you have access to an oxy aceteline set with fine brazing nozzles as you can heat the exhaust around the sensor but if not try it cold first and if it doesn't budge or if feels like it is stripping the thread, try it hot (run the engine). This youtube video suggest using WD40 when hot which is usually OK but be dead careful as it can burst into flames! (Have a hose pipe or a fire extinguisher by you).

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/maintenance/4219927

[bitman]

when i did mine, i started to soak it with wd40 the day before and indeed removed it with a hot engine as anchorman recoments, good luck.

also soak those 4 bolts of the heatshield with wd40

when placing the bolts and new censor(s) use copper grease.