P2002 Fault Code - Power Loss

[Hugh53]

Last week driving around on holiday experienced temporary power loss on T180 Rav4. Check engine, VSC and 4WD lights came on. I got Toyota dealer to check and was told it had been a P2002 particulate efficiency code but they could not identify the cause. Advise further checks if it repeats (at £47). Got home - having had about 20 temporary power losses and plugged in my diagnostic tool and find MAP is only reading about 70kPA with engine off (atmospheric pressure is 101kPA) and only about 90kPA revving it, so it looks like my MAP is U/S. Could this be the cause of P2002 code? Currently looking for replacement MAP or anyone else's experience.

[anchorman]

Have a read at this;

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=96779&view=findpost&p=1031579

[Hugh53]

Have a read at this;

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=96779&view=findpost&p=1031579

Many thanks for the pointers. I have waited until I had something to report on the subject. I finally sourced a new turbo pressure sensor (ebay), which gave exactly the same static reading 80kPa (when atmospheric pressure is 101kPa.) Why is there this error? My son's Corsa reads 98kPa static. So that was not the source of the problem. EGR was badly fouled - which I cleaned. But I still had the P2002 fault regularly. I then took the car to dealer for service and gave them copies of your advice on EGR and manifold replacement and also pointed out that the ECU was not the latest revision. They updated ECU but said they could not do anything about EGR because it was clean, although they would talk to Toyota. On driving the car back to collect me, P2002 code came in with their driver. Back to garage. They have now got agreement form Toyota to warranty replace EGR and catalytic converter at 4 1/2 years. This is due to happen next week. Will report on whether this cures P2002, once complete and car driven for a while.

Shows the excellent value of this forum. Cost of this work otherwise would no doubt be rather high. Thanks again.

If anyone wants a download of the OBDC data I can provide some of my history.

[anchorman]

Blimey I forgot about you!

I would have to have a trawl through my manual data to try and answer your question about the pressure sensor and I can't get at it just now. In any case it seems like events have overtaken and you are in for something of a revamp. TGB usually do the right thing when they can see a valid case - good for them and well done you

[PhilGee]

Your MAP readings could be right. Just because the reading isnt what it should be doesnt mean the sensor is at fault.

Sounds as though your dealer are on the case anyways.

[shcm]

I get the feeling Anchs won't have his data available for a while, so here goes:

The service data for a pre-2009 DCAT gives the "standard" turbo charging pressure as 53 to 61 kPa.

Applying a negative pressure of 40kPa to the sensor, should make it output 0.3 to 0.9 V

Applied pressure same as atmospheric 0.8V to 1.4V

Positive pressure of 69KPa 1.6V to 2.2V.

HOWEVER Going by the book, certainly for post 2009 DCAT models, there is a seriously long and fairly complex looking diagnostic procedure, to get to the root cause of this DTC. The dealer may well be the best bet here.

[Hugh53]

Many thanks for all the help.

Problem appears to be solved. Toyota have now replaced Cat and EGR under extended warranty with car at 4 1/2 years old. No repeat of fault code after 2 weeks.

So if anyone else finds this fault code and car is approaching 5 years, get down to dealer quickly.

Hugh

[MD_EFC]

OK - I read with interest the many conversations on this forum as well as the general WWW.

So Thursday night travelling from the South of England back to Yorkshire, what should appear on my dashboard ? Yep you guessed - Check VSC, 4x4, Engine systems and within about 3 minutes the car started to lose power while going up hill while overtaking a series of lorries (originally doing around 65 and within about 30 seconds dropped to less than 40 to the annoyance of those behind me - luckily this did not cause an accident) on the Northbound A34 about 18 miles from Oxford !!

Anyway after a visit by the 'AA' they confirmed code P2002 and on further inspection found problems with the ECM and transmission then arranged for Relay to take me the 160+ miles home. (I'd also just like to state that the 3 individual guys from the AA who assisted me in this were totally brilliant, not to mention the lady who took my original call - well done AA).

Friday morning I log onto the WWW, do various searches, find this forum and loads of other general forums out there regards this problem and it being a known / recall issue for Toyota - on reading the recall piece, I cast my mind back to around 18 months ago (just prior to my cars 3rd birthday) when Toyota did indeed contact me to recall the vehicle and 're-program' the ECM.

Anyway longish story short - Contacted Toyota Customer Relations (via - 01737 363 633) and advised them of my problem, they sounded genuinely concerned and confirmed that they had indeed already recalled my vehicle. I went on to advise them of my research and emntioned this forum and others as well as the 1m+ cars that had seemingly been recalled worldwide due to this issue on various Toyota models. I detailed the AA initial report regards the P2002 error code and concerns over transmission / gear box / warning lights.

Anyway Toyota logged the issue (gave me unique issue ID), asked me where my local dealer was and then passed me through to the dealers servicing desk. I gave the dealer the fault reference and I've got my car booked in to be checked on Monday 07/11/2011. Follow up actions are that the dealer will check this out on Monday and discuss actions with Toyota head office however I have stressed that I believe this should be done under the extended warranty (car currently 4 & half years old) and that if this is not the case I will follow the many thousands around the world who have already filed legal action against the company.

This along with the issue I had with the runflats less than 2 years after I purchased the car, (had a flat and Toyota had apparently changed policy between me buying the car and this happening - Toyota then wanted me to pay over £600 to replace a tyre, the inner supporting ring and the sensor !!!! - yep that ended in a complaint and Toyota giving me a voucher to cover the costs but not admitting they were in the wrong), is seriously making me question Toyota's committment to their loyal customers !!!!

Anyway update to follow after Dealer has checked this out !!!!

[CharlieFarlie]

OK - I read with interest the many conversations on this forum as well as the general WWW.

So Thursday night travelling from the South of England back to Yorkshire, what should appear on my dashboard ? Yep you guessed - Check VSC, 4x4, Engine systems and within about 3 minutes the car started to lose power while going up hill while overtaking a series of lorries (originally doing around 65 and within about 30 seconds dropped to less than 40 to the annoyance of those behind me - luckily this did not cause an accident) on the Northbound A34 about 18 miles from Oxford !!

Anyway after a visit by the 'AA' they confirmed code P2002 and on further inspection found problems with the ECM and transmission then arranged for Relay to take me the 160+ miles home. (I'd also just like to state that the 3 individual guys from the AA who assisted me in this were totally brilliant, not to mention the lady who took my original call - well done AA).

Friday morning I log onto the WWW, do various searches, find this forum and loads of other general forums out there regards this problem and it being a known / recall issue for Toyota - on reading the recall piece, I cast my mind back to around 18 months ago (just prior to my cars 3rd birthday) when Toyota did indeed contact me to recall the vehicle and 're-program' the ECM.

Anyway longish story short - Contacted Toyota Customer Relations (via - 01737 363 633) and advised them of my problem, they sounded genuinely concerned and confirmed that they had indeed already recalled my vehicle. I went on to advise them of my research and emntioned this forum and others as well as the 1m+ cars that had seemingly been recalled worldwide due to this issue on various Toyota models. I detailed the AA initial report regards the P2002 error code and concerns over transmission / gear box / warning lights.

Anyway Toyota logged the issue (gave me unique issue ID), asked me where my local dealer was and then passed me through to the dealers servicing desk. I gave the dealer the fault reference and I've got my car booked in to be checked on Monday 07/11/2011. Follow up actions are that the dealer will check this out on Monday and discuss actions with Toyota head office however I have stressed that I believe this should be done under the extended warranty (car currently 4 & half years old) and that if this is not the case I will follow the many thousands around the world who have already filed legal action against the company.

This along with the issue I had with the runflats less than 2 years after I purchased the car, (had a flat and Toyota had apparently changed policy between me buying the car and this happening - Toyota then wanted me to pay over £600 to replace a tyre, the inner supporting ring and the sensor !!!! - yep that ended in a complaint and Toyota giving me a voucher to cover the costs but not admitting they were in the wrong), is seriously making me question Toyota's committment to their loyal customers !!!!

Anyway update to follow after Dealer has checked this out !!!!

With respect.... I think You will find Toyota's customer service second to none !!!

Many on this Forum have had replacement engines fitted due to excessive oil consumption . This includes Myself who had a complete new Engine, EGR valve, Injectors,Water pump, Catalytic converter, ECT ECT all done under warranty without fuss and even a courtesy car thrown in.

All this on a 2006 car with 45K miles....

Try getting this level of service elsewhere ??

Welcome to the Forum !....... :thumbsup:

Wee Charlie.

[MD_EFC]

Thanks CharlieFarlie,

To clarify, I am not complaining about the customer service I have experienced - I've used a few local dealers and they have ALWAYS been professional / helpful etc, however some of the Toyota groups policy changes have been poor (even the dealers have agreed with me).

In particular I refer to the run flat tyre's - when I bought the car I was advised by the dealer than if I experienced a flat tyre I could visit a nearby Toyota dealer, all of which had spare wheels, just to swap over the entire wheel - the sales man I bought the car from joked that in fact I could end up with a full set of new wheels for the price of wear and tear of the tyre only (estimated max of £150).

This was not a main selling point but I found it useful.

On having my first flat tyre I took the car into the dealer I bought it from (approx 10 to 12 miles away on minor A / B roads (certainly well less than the advised 50mph limit), they advised me that Toyota had changed the policy and that I would have to pay for a complete new tyre at around £250. After I argued the case they advised it was Toyota group who had changed the policy and not the dealers and that the dealers had had to return all spares and instead purchase / hire specialist equipment from Toyota at £10k's of pound in order for them to change just the tyre. I agreed to the replacement tyre and stated I would contact Toyota direct to complain. As yet I believe that a number of 'high-street' tyre suppliers / fitters have requested the ability for them to hire / purchase the tyre replacement kit and Toyota Group have refused - therefore Toyota customers with these run-flats have one option only for replacement tyres - to be stuck with Toyota Groups monopolised approach to rewarding customer loyalty !!!!

On removal of the punctured tyre, the dealer found that the inner support ring and sensor were damaged also (the support ring was shaped like a 50p piece !!!), they contacted Toyota who stated I'd have to pay for a replacement support ring and sensor - hence the £600 charge I mentioned in my earlier note. Again the dealer was brilliant in supporting me and assisted me in my complaint to Toyota Group. They even allowed me to keep the 50p shaped support ring and valve in order that I could prove the issue. As mentioned Toyota group then eventually backed down (but would not admit to faulty items) and covered the costs for all but a replacement tyre at wear and tear prices (around £150).

Oh and to top it, as the dealers were also penalised with this in that they had to lease / buy the equipment to allow them to change tyres on these not every branch of a dealer will generally have the equipment, so when I have had to change a tyre, my car has had to be shipped 50 or 60 miles to the nearest branch and is generally away for 3 to 5 days. Yes the dealer generally does provide a courtesy car as well - if available or booked well in advanced. On the issue I have now where I could not book in advance, when I dropped my car off yesterday I was advised that they will not know until tomorrow as to if the dealer can arrange another car for me. For somebody who's job involves ad-hoc / short notice driving this is not ideal !!!

On challenging Toyota group on the policy changes I was advised that they reserve the right to do so without advising customers - therefore as loyal and valued customers we should expect some surprises !!!! - not all of them good.

(another issue I had which have not mentioned is support around the entertainment / satnav unit - Toyota Group wanting to charge me in excess of £4000 for a replacement unit - however as an option on none T180's the unit is no where near that value !!!!).

In summary - I have no issues with the dealers and can only praise them, or in fact the Customer Relations guy I spoke to on Friday at Toyota group who again was very helpful. However I do have issues with Toyota Group in general with their communications out to customers and dealers (the handling of a number of recalls supports my beliefs).

Also in general I love the car but in hindsight would never have bought it.

Anyway, a brief response and I'll ensure I update again on next feedback from Toyota Dealer and / or Group.

Muchas, Gracias, Me.

[CharlieFarlie]

Mate . Check out this bad boy ....

http://www.car-vision.co.uk/toyota-navi-dvd/12418-toyota-rav4-oem-upgrade-dvd-gps-sat-nav-bt-easy-fit-media-system.html

I am seriously considering this unit that Blue Monster has waved under My nose.... It looks extremely close to the original unit which personally I like.. Plus it has Ipod connection and a bit more power and spec .....

Wee Charlie.

[MD_EFC]

OK - so I promised an update and here goes.

RAV4 still with local dealer (a week now), Toyota have agreed to cover this under extended warranty as it does seemingly relate to previous recalls (which mine was included in 2 years ago).

They have replaced / re-programmed ECM then had to re-programme again on Toyota's instructions with a further release of code.

Various sensors have been replaced, along with pipework to / from the diesel particulate filter and apparently the filter itself.

The car apparently now drives smoother, however the warning lights remain active.

Latest on Friday was that the dealer now had authorisation from Toyota to replace the complete cat-conv system which should be delivered to dealer today, fitted and re-tested !!!!

Jokingly on Friday both me and the dealer said the same thing - if this continues I'll have a brand new car !!!!!

As previously mentioned the dealer has been brilliant in keeping me informed and arranging a courtesy car (Aygo Go - which turns out to be a great little car !!!!).

The dealer has expressed his frustrations with Toyota as they are unable to replace anything until they provide Toyota with all the logs / diags and Toyota approve. The number of hoops these guys have had to jump through to get it where it is is unbelievable.

Funnily had a been a paying customer, I would have been advised to change all this and the associated costs, the dealer would have cracked on with it and I'd be back behind the wheel of my RAV4 now - I'm not the paying customer though, Toyota are therefore redtape overload !!!!

Anyway, note to the dealer - keep up the great work, your help and information is very much appreciated.

[the fox]

can't believe you all seem to have no problem with Toyota, I had the EGR valve problem, well under 5 years old, I was told Toyota had spent so much on fixing the faults that the 5 year warranty extended to the EGR valve problem had been stopped, I had a 20,000 mile service, It was proved that they had only done an oil change, after numerous complaints Toyota GB told me they had no control over Dealers/Toyota Centers and they would not send a field engineer out to see if my Rav4 had been serviced correctly, in the end I had to pay to prove it had not been serviced, I got a refund But Toyota GB closed ranks, and very recently I had a power steering failure my Local Toyota center stated because I had not got a full Toyota service history they would not help, again I reported this comment to Toyota GB again they closed ranks and said it was my word against theres, I even have the email from Blackburn vantage basiclly sodding me off for not being a loyal Toyota customer, I said after buying three brand new Rav4's and being in Club Toyota since 1994 and buying my insurance from Toyota again since 1994 surely makes me loyal to the brand " NO " we want even more???

[MD_EFC]

Hi 'The Fox',

Firstly - and to a degree I agree with you.

Toyota GB / Group have been awkward / Teflon coated etc in stating that they have the right to change policy and basically screw with us normal people's lives.

Secondly, and more importantly - the dealers I have worked with over the 4 & half years I've owned the RAV4 have been brilliant - I'm not going to jump on the slagging off bandwagon just because I now have a problem. The dealers, 2 totally un-related Yorkshire main dealers, have been great for me.

My RAV4 does not have complete main dealer service history either, and the dealers have never questioned that in any work I've had done. Matter of fact, the dealers have sided with me as a customer and fought my corner back up to Toyota group on issues relating to run flats, satnav, current ECM etc issue.

Emotion is great but let's make sure the right emotion is channeled to the right party.

Toyota dealers have my full backing, Toyota group however leave some things to be questioned !!!!!

Plus as mentioned previously I totally love the RAV4 T180 but question how much loyalty Toyota Group have with their customers.

[the fox]

Don't know if you have been lucky or I have been unlucky, have tried three dealers all three have basically tried to rip me off, I had one of my Rav4's breakdown. I expalined I needed it badly because I was going away on the following Saturday, this was a Tuesday, Ten days later and a Holiday without my vehicle they informed me I might need a new distributor circa £450 plus fitting, plus the circa £230 I already owed them for looking at my Vehicle, "but we ae not sure" I arranged to have the vehicle towed away, it was repaired the same day One new £4 rotor arm, contacted Toyota GB Nothing no help, One Rav4 was hit from behind it came back from a Toyota main dealers body shop minus one full tank of petrol and missing the roof aerial , There excuse "we share a compound with travellers" and the 20,000 mile service just don't go there, I was told it would take two hours, It was booked in four weeks in advance because I wanted a saturday, Very popular saturday,s I got a phone call 50 mins later to say it was ready to be picked up, I questioned them "we put two technicians on it" (On a Saturday) It was proved they had carried out an oil change, I should have been aware of some dodgey dealings they phoned two days before the service and asked how I was going to pay, When They realised I had a service plan and paid up front they obviously decided not to service it corrreclty, again, it tooks weeks to get my money back and Toyota GB would not help in fact they backed the Dealer even after I proved it was not serviced, I believe the dealer was systomatically ripping people OFF

[the fox]

And I forgot, after the service they stated, I needed a new clutch, and The Vehicle also had a very bad oil leak, It didn't till the saturday boy did the oil change, They said it would cost £1,600 covered by warranty, I asked Toyota to check the vehicle after it was proved the service had not been done correctly they would not get involved and even allowed it to be booked in for the clutch and oil leak warranty work, I missed the appointment, they could not even change the oil filter without draining the canister first, How could they change the clutch, some 25,000 miles later still no oil leak still on same clutch

[Davrav]

Don't know if you have been lucky or I have been unlucky, have tried three dealers all three have basically tried to rip me off, I had one of my Rav4's breakdown. I expalined I needed it badly because I was going away on the following Saturday, this was a Tuesday, Ten days later and a Holiday without my vehicle they informed me I might need a new distributor circa £450 plus fitting, plus the circa £230 I already owed them for looking at my Vehicle, "but we ae not sure" I arranged to have the vehicle towed away, it was repaired the same day One new £4 rotor arm, contacted Toyota GB Nothing no help, One Rav4 was hit from behind it came back from a Toyota main dealers body shop minus one full tank of petrol and missing the roof aerial , There excuse "we share a compound with travellers" and the 20,000 mile service just don't go there, I was told it would take two hours, It was booked in four weeks in advance because I wanted a saturday, Very popular saturday,s I got a phone call 50 mins later to say it was ready to be picked up, I questioned them "we put two technicians on it" (On a Saturday) It was proved they had carried out an oil change, I should have been aware of some dodgey dealings they phoned two days before the service and asked how I was going to pay, When They realised I had a service plan and paid up front they obviously decided not to service it corrreclty, again, it tooks weeks to get my money back and Toyota GB would not help in fact they backed the Dealer even after I proved it was not serviced, I believe the dealer was systomatically ripping people OFF

Trading Standards involved?

[MD_EFC]

'The Fox' - I totally sympathise with you which is way I took the stance and approach I did with this issue.

1 - Research, look on www for any similar issues. Note down www sites / forums / comments etc - stick to facts and figures etc.

2 - Contact Toyota GB direct and get a case number (contact details I used - 01737 363 633). Explain in detail the issue do not go emotional, stick to the facts (see point 1 above - refer to www sites etc in your findings, refer to recall notices and number of vehicles known to be affected by previous recalls). If you nearly get killed due to sudden loss of power on a busy A road (A34 heading north towards Oxford) state so and ensure it's noted, but don't go emotional.

3 - Agree a way forward, arrange for inspection at local dealer / arrange courtesy car.

4 - Do not take it out on your local service manager, generally they will help and be sympathetic to your needs (unless you have proof that they've screwed you which seems to be the case in your feedback - and I've had similar with other dealers / garages in the past). Again I cannot praise the guys that I've been dealing with enough with regards this issue.

5 - Gain confirmation that this will be covered under Toyota's extended warranty (however confirmation of this will potentially mean a lengthy repair process - Remember that these guys have their hands tied to a degree when doing work for Toyota and not a normal paying customer).

6 - Remember that your issue is with the manufacturer (who generally are faceless), not the face you see in your dealer.

7 - Legal action - all car manufacturers (unfortunately especially Toyota at this moment in time) are keen to avoid lengthy legal disputes no matter if you're an individual or a group. My view is though that any legal action taken out should be aimed at Toyota group and not the dealer.

In general and again Toyota have not been good during any issue I've had, however the dealers I've dealt with have been excellent. if you do have any dealer related issues you need to address these direct.

[the fox]

you would not believe the steps I took to try and shame RRG Bolton for my 20,000 miles no one was interested, Trading standards, Bolton evening news Etc Etc, Like now, this is the message The Service manager sent me after I asked advice concerning a service bulletin about Power steering and the warranty being extended to 5 years because of a known fault

Mr Flannery

Can you please tell me were you got the bulletin information,as we have never heard of such a fault nor can we find anything relating to it on the Toyota system.

Furthermore if you can provide me with a full Toyota history we can submit a goodwill claim.Toyota will obviously only consider goodwill claims for customers that have shown loyalty by using a Toyota Dealer for servicing.

Regards

John Wharton (Service Manager

then his reply when I told him I did not have a full service history

Mr Flannery

I dont see what your complaint has to do with us at Vantage Toyota Blackburn?

Please feel free to call Toyota GB

Regards

John

Then Toyota GB's reply after loads and loads of complaints there final comment

Dear Mr Flannery

I am writing to you following your email dated 25 October 2011.

I have discussed with John Wharton your latest response and he is certain that he advised you to come in but not by email. As I am not privy to any conversations between you, I cannot confirm either way.

It is with regret I must refer you back to my previous correspondence as the fact still remains that before we can offer any comment regarding the fault with your vehicle it will need to be investigated by a Toyota Centre.

In closing, I recognise your strength of feeling on this matter but clearly we are not able to afford you the answer you want to hear which is regrettable and I realise does not meet your expectations of the Toyota brand. For this I can only apologise but I trust we have clarified our final position in this respect.

Yours sincerely

Danielle Lashmar

Customer Relations Executive

"I'm still waiting to find out how he told me the pidgeon must have got lost over ewood park"