Taxi The Final Out Come.

[RNS]

hello there

as some of u my know i been trying to get a prius plated as a private hire vehicle. today i had the response from the councillors they been looking over this for the last 7 weeks...bear in my its taken me 2 years to get to this point :( lol anyways here a copy of the email...... for me now the matter is closed i got my car plated on another local council who welcomed the new tech.

Hi Ryan,

I have now consulted with the Quality Service Working Group (which is a group of representatives of the Hackney Carriage and Private Hire trade, including Trade Union representatives). A lot of discussion took place on the subject of space savers as I proposed that the specifications were changed to allow the use of them. Nevertheless, it was unanimously agreed by all of the members that space savers should not be approved for use on either Hackney Carriage or Private Hire Vehicles licensed by Mansfield District Council. The reasons for this included:-

• Space savers are not appropriate for use on commercial vehicles.
• The difficulty a driver would have following the guidelines issued by the manufacturer if a space saver was used (due to the speed and weight restrictions imposed).
• The problem of not having a place to store the existing (punctured) wheel once it had been removed (particularly if there were passengers with luggage in the vehicle).
• The problem of the garages not being open to replace the space saver much of the time that Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Vehicles are in use.
• How the Members did not want to lower the standards of the fleet by allowing such a wheel to be used as drivers will not necessarily take the vehicle to the nearest garage to get the space saver replaced.
• How drivers would not be able to complete the journey (I.e. an airport run) as they would be required to take the vehicle to the nearest garage and how this is therefore not appropriate or good for business.

I am sorry that this is not the response you wanted but this is the feedback which I received and therefore would be likely to hold weight in any decision the Licensing Committee would make.

Regards,

Samantha Lilley

Licensing Team Leader

Mansfield District Council

slilley@mansfield.gov.uk

01623 463388

[Grumpy Cabbie]

lol, what a crock of ***t.

Why did they refer with trade unions? Oh, I forgot, it's a Labour council and Labour and Unions work for the 'common man', the working class man, such as a taxi driver. Hang on, they don't any more, they work for government workers and people on the dole and stuff anyone out there trying to make a living. Typical rubbish from a backward council. They've not answered why the majority of councils out there are quite happy with space saver spare wheels and hybrid cars.

Hope you make loads of money being registered with a forward thinking council and perhaps you should get a story published after six months or a year showing how well the Prius is doing, how much the customers love it and the environmental benefits it brings, including local air pollution.

Crazy how my council couldn't wait to get my Prius licenced, yet 60 miles away another council is quite the opposite. Madness :censor:

[RNS]

was thinkin about one last go at them useing the BBC or something i dunno..... really what to do and is it really a many news item.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

was thinkin about one last go at them useing the BBC or something i dunno..... really what to do and is it really a many news item.

I doubt it is. Councils are allowed their own bylaws regarding taxis - whether they right or wrong is complex as you've learnt. I'd say just crack on as you are, enjoy the ride and benefits of the Prius as I'm sure your customers will.

Remember - these council officials think they're better than you as they're an official backed by big unions and we're just scumbag taxi drivers (in their eyes). You'll never win. They'll just dig their heels in and spend more and more public money on big lawyers bills fighting you. The only way to change them is at the ballot box, but in a Labour strong hold like Mansfield you'll have a job - and they know it!

Again I'll add they're not all like Mansfield. My council are proactive and open minded.

[RNS]

i guess.

[johalareewi]

Seems like the council are afraid of change and come up with 'what if' scenarios to justify their entranced position. You have found a way round this so let them stew. The rest of the world will move along and they will be left behind. It's just a shame it's taxpayers' money propping them up.

Enjoy your Prius.

[hertsnminds]

Why did they refer with trade unions?

They had no choice as they spoke to "the Quality Service Working Group (which is a group of representatives of the Hackney Carriage and Private Hire trade, including Trade Union representatives)" They do not determine the people who comprise the Quality Service Working Group.

The Mansfield District Council website has lots of information on it including a document http://www.mansfield.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1718&p=0 with all of the requirements for a private hire vehicle, as well as not having a space saver spare tyre the engine must be at least 1590cc, cannot be black or white with a black bonnet and boot lid. All the relevant documents also state you should check the regulations before buying a vehicle you wish to register. If I want to set up a business wouldn't it make sense to check the laws and regulations surrounding that business before investing in equipment?

Now it seems rather than just reject the application, for a vehicle which did not meet existing restrictions, the Council have taken the time to go away and see if things could be changed. They have returned after taking advice from representatives of the Hackney Carriage and Private Hire trade (does this mean taxi drivers or just people who run taxi companies and don't want more competition?).

If the feeling is a space saver tyre is OK to have in a vehicle being used as a taxi what happens when you have a car full of passengers with their luggage and you need to change the tyre? Do you leave the old tyre by the side of the road or make a passenger carry it on their lap? It seems all the Council are asking for is a solution to this scenario, just because other councils do not consider this issue does not make them right or wrong.

I am not taking sides on this just trying to put forward a more balanced viewpoint.

[RNS]

the problem is or the point is does not matter if u got a full size spare or not once u used ur spare u can no longer carry passengers coz u need to have use able spare no matter what so..... if i was carrying people and i did have a flat. full size or not i would still have to call for another taxi to take the people the rest of the trip.

if u understand me.

[Jan&tone]

I just wonder why Mansfield have that opinion when other councils don't, maybe there is something in the regulations that Vancouver has which makes 90pct of their cabs hybrids, Prius and Camry's!

Maybe Mansfield just don't trust hybrids yet?

Perhaps the powers that be there should be taken for a ride in one?

Unless some people who make the decisions realise that if they don't have a hybrid they won't make as much money so they won't let them in???

I don't know, it just seems odd to me

[RNS]

mansfield mayor got given one or half paid for so i am told.. or joint paid for.. a red one gen 3

and the quote from that press add was... "i should be setting an example"

[wooski]

This is indeed crock. The gen 3 Prius is very very popular in London as a mini cab. Companies like Green Tomato run whole fleets of them. If they can survive London they can survive Mansfield.

I would fight this - and get loads of publicity doing so.

[johalareewi]

the problem is or the point is does not matter if u got a full size spare or not once u used ur spare u can no longer carry passengers coz u need to have use able spare no matter what so..... if i was carrying people and i did have a flat. full size or not i would still have to call for another taxi to take the people the rest of the trip.

if u understand me.

Exactly.

So as soon as you get a flat and use your spare, you can't be a taxi coz you don't have a spare anymore?

So it doesn't matter what type of spare you have. You can't use it.

Some new cars just have a repair spray instead of a spare tyre and wheel (Prius gen3 with solar panel for example). Wonder what they would make of that?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

the problem is or the point is does not matter if u got a full size spare or not once u used ur spare u can no longer carry passengers coz u need to have use able spare no matter what so..... if i was carrying people and i did have a flat. full size or not i would still have to call for another taxi to take the people the rest of the trip.

if u understand me.

Exactly.

So as soon as you get a flat and use your spare, you can't be a taxi coz you don't have a spare anymore?

So it doesn't matter what type of spare you have. You can't use it.

Some new cars just have a repair spray instead of a spare tyre and wheel (Prius gen3 with solar panel for example). Wonder what they would make of that?

My council don't mind and we have a fleet of Mercedes Taxis which only have the spray kit.

[RNS]

no council will pass the spray thing...

i dunno what to do carry it on or not.... my dad is plated on Mansfield so i don't want to make things hard for him...... the council are very petty. i get the impression in Mansfield to make head way it about what secret hand shake u use.

the conservative party have show alot of interest in this but i am sure that is because Mansfield is super mega labour strong hold.

but as some of you have stated there are alot of prius used nation wide has private hire well even world wide.

at the start of this i was thread with legal action if i didn't drop the matter by one of the councillor. i have not spoken to him from that day.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Why did they refer with trade unions?

They had no choice as they spoke to "the Quality Service Working Group (which is a group of representatives of the Hackney Carriage and Private Hire trade, including Trade Union representatives)" They do not determine the people who comprise the Quality Service Working Group.

I am not taking sides on this just trying to put forward a more balanced viewpoint.

OK, they spoke to their Quality Service Working Group which included representatives of the taxi trade from that area who decided to keep things as they are. Fair enough. But also remember this is the council and as such the above is just an excuse. If they decided they'd want to licence the Prius, they would push it through, regardless of what the group advised.

Also, as others have said. Mansfield are a minority in the UK for this rediculous rule.

Going off at a tangent here, one wonders what the local air quality figures are for Mansfield? Perhaps reading the following link would show how keen Mansfield Council are to reduce local air pollution figures http://www.mansfield.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=2948&p=0

Perhaps you could appeal using this as your arqument? Show how much lower the Prius emissions are compared to a diesel Mondeo and then compare this over 40,000 miles including how many tonnes of co2 you save. Then times that by the number of licenced taxis there are in Mansfield. Thus, if all cabs in Mansfield were hybrid Prius, we would save xxx tonnes of co2, reduce PM10's by xx%, NOx by xx% etc.

If they still didn't listen, a letter to the Mayor and the local press would help stir things up if nothing else

[Parts-King]

Try and find your local councils "Green" policy on their website and look at what they are doing to reduce CO2, then using Grumpie Cabbies formulae, show them how much more it could be reduced by allowing Hybrids to be used. You need the backing of a local journalist with a savvi attitude to numpty councils, so that this nonsense can be reported to the locals in your community. I'm sure the council will have to review it's stupid policy on spacesavers in the near future otherwise they wont have any cabs available for private hire seeing as most car manufacturers are using gunk spray or spacesavers!! I wonder what the attitude will be when they suddenly find every cabbie registering with another council and their revenue from taxi licences plunges?

I find the whole thing a crock of sh*te and wouldnt let it rest TBH Councils are there to provide services to the people of the borough, go get 'em!!!

Kingo

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I wonder what the attitude will be when they suddenly find every cabbie registering with another council and their revenue from taxi licences plunges?

Kingo

Ah, I see you have no experience dealing with numpty councils. They still won't budge - they'll just put up the cost of the licences for the remaining drivers to make up for the loss of income.

[Parts-King]

Ah, I see you have no experience dealing with numpty councils.

Oh I dunno so much.............I pay council tax to my numpty council every month

I just did a quick check on my councils policy on space savers (comes from the vehicle test guidlines)

16. Condition of spare tyre. Space Saver tyres Inflation devices

Must be suitable for the vehicle. Must have minimum of 1.6 mm over 80 % of the central tyre’s width on the full circumference of the tyre. Slim/space saver type tyre must be to manufacturer specifications. Spare tyre may be replaced by a vehicle manufacturer’s approved system.(inflation device)

Is there no national guidlines or is it all down to a councils policy? Is there a taxi ombudsman? No I'm not joking, who would you appeal to, there must be something

Kingo

[RNS]

there is not central power to do with this..... the council like to keep it to them self coz the money goes to them

the point ur making about Mansfield running out of cars plated on Mansfield is already happening... most are plated on bolsover coz its cheaper and there alot nice people to deal with. also u can have black car if u wont :)

i been trying to sort something with the council for almost 2 years with the hybrid

back then it was the 1.5 problem with the older car that got sorted by the new one having the 1.8 but still the spare wheel is in the way.

the thing that stress me out the most by all this is the fact the mayor got one..... and telling us we should have one. that when it get my back up. space saver good enough for him.

I AM AT WORK TONIGHT FIRST TIME IN 16 MONTHS SINCE MY CRASH..... AINT IT ACE.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

There is - the legal system.

However, without the bottomless pockets that the council would have, you wouldn't stand a hope.

Check out the montly trade magazine and there's usually a section on crazy council ideas. http://www.phtm.co.uk/

[Parts-King]

the thing that stress me out the most by all this is the fact the mayor got one..... and telling us we should have one. that when it get my back up. space saver good enough for him.

Well I think you should email the local newspaper and tell them of the hypocrisy, stir it up a bit, you have nothing to lose over it

Kingo

[Grumpy Cabbie]

the thing that stress me out the most by all this is the fact the mayor got one..... and telling us we should have one. that when it get my back up. space saver good enough for him.

Well I think you should email the local newspaper and tell them of the hypocrisy, stir it up a bit, you have nothing to lose over it

Kingo

Well to be honest, he has.

They could start getting really sh**y about out of town registered cars picking up in Mansfields area if they wanted.

I know Harrogate Council get really funny about it and will nip it in the bud if they find it happening here. Same applies to Leeds and York Councils.

The fact that Mansfield allow out of area registered taxis (esp private hire) to work Mansfield shows the contempt they have for their own drivers - the ones who do actually register with them. Also, Mansfield has one of the lowest fares/tariffs in the UK, coming in at 322/380. Great you say - cheap cabs, but not if you try and make a LEGAL living out of it - think bald tyres, dodgy cars, cancelled insurance, drivers claiming benefits etc etc.

[Parts-King]

Just because the council "could get sh***y" about it doesnt mean you cant ask questions of them and their policies. They are not against Hybrid but a spacesaver wheel, how will the lack of a spacesaver wheel lower their towns emissions and CO2??? Just because something isnt right, doesnt mean you have to take it on the chin. Nothing wrong in my book having a polite but firm dig at anybody, especially on a policy that is clearly out of date and touch with modern cars

It's your licence and living so it's a choice you have to make, but I would be like a dog with a bone

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I meant the council should start actively policing their own town for dodgy cabs and/or out of town cabs picking up there and touting - which is illegal.

It seems they're just happy to plod along keeping the status quo and not rocking the boat, not budging on the Prius, but also not keeping their own backyard in order.

At the end of the day it's not my problem, my Council are one of the good ones and the drivers work together with the taxi department. Maybe that's why I get comments all the time from visitors to the town on how well run the taxi services are compared to other places.

Just a shame for the good cabbies in Mansfield.

[Jolly English Gentleman]

Mansfield is supposed to be one of the more vulnerable places in the UK if there are the spending cuts that everyone believes be coming. It is attitudes like this that stop progress. Still if they are happy for out of town cabs to ply their trade then your response is obvious - the thing you need to weigh up is what they might do when actually faced with the cuts - will they look at out of town cabs and start enforcing things as has happened in other areas? The best thing from the business point of view is to let the car speak for itself. If you attract more eco conscious passengers then you could potentially have more public backing if they started getting nasty. You can point to the fact that you tried to persuade them to change and they came up with a load of reasons that other Councils do not consider as important factors. The idea that garages are not open in Mansfield to change a Spacesaver tyre does not really hold water - they probably are not open any where are 1AM on a Sunday morning.

Looking at Mansfield's specs they seem to be very rigid. However I note that they have a spec for Special Event vehicles which they class as a "special vehicle which falls outside the normal Private Hire Specifications i.e. a Limousine or Fire Engine." These specs make no mention of Space Saver tyres. Would there be any scope in seeing if they would add Eco freindly vehicle or Hybrid vehicle to this class and you market your car as such? It might be a way round it (a typical British compromise).

The dft Best Practice Guide to Taxi and Private Hire Licensing states at point 8 that "Local licensing authorities should recognise that too restrictive an approach can work against the public interest. They cannot deny that by refusing to grant a license to a Prius they are going against the spirit of various sections of this best practice guide which came out in March 2010. In particular sections 8, 27, 28, and 39 of this guide. It could be worth asking them whether their current licensing requirements meet this guide as I seem to recall that your fight to get the Prius recognised by Mansfield started before this best practice guide came out.