Can You Check Your Sound System?

[Doesn'tExist]

I got my Prius on 1/9 and have now been without it for 4 days including tomorrow. Most things are rectified but I'm heading towards a difficult situation and may have to reject unless Toyota UK does something.

Anyway my problem is with the sound system. I appreciate that few will have the JBL 'upgrade', however if my current loan T-Spirit is anything to go buy I suspect the fault is in the headunit/satnav unit. The problem is unreasonably low volume from the rear 4 Speakers. I find the sound stage is really from the front, when I started playing with the setup on the fader I noticed that when you fade to the rear the volume of the system significantly drops regardless of where you are. In my vehicle whilst the volume is on 11 (figure of speech more like 25 according to the head unit) it is loud at the 4 front Speakers but hardly anything from the rear 4 Speakers. When keeping it at say 25 and fading to the rear in my car it becomes inaudible.

The T-Spirit is sold as an 8 speaker car, and in my case with the JBL 'upgrade' a nine speaker car including the sub. Yet only 4 speakers seem to be producing sound at a level that gets controlled by the headunit. So my car has been in for three days now and they still have it tomorrow. I can replicate the issue in my loan car as well and the garage can replicate it in their directors car as well. As such they are now saying this is how it is and that is how Toyota has tuned it and you can't do anything about it. I find that unacceptable, especially considering the premium I've paid for the JBL 'upgrade' and I haven't even started about that my nearly 1 year old iPod is too new for the Toyota system despite being on the supported equipment list but I leave that for another day.

So my question are;

1. Those that have a T-Spirit with SatNav, when you use the fader to move all the sound to the rear does your audible volume go down as well?

2. Those with a JBL system and subwoofer, is your sub audible. My one make a sound and that suggests it is out of phase, one shouldn't be able to hear the sub. The 'boom' is always at the just-the-wrong-moment.

3. Those who don't have the SatNav unit but the standard radio, what happens to the audible volume when you fade to the rear? I understand you have a six speaker system, 2 back and 4 front?

Look forward to hear from you.

[Peter2673]

Hi

My T-Spirit is exactly a year old. I've been kicking myself because I didn't get the JBL upgrade, but from what you say I'd have been even more upset if I had.

As you say, the sound from the rear Speakers is weedy, tinny, and horrible. My audiophile teenagers keep wanting to travel in our other car. The dealer has looked at it a number of times, and concluded that that's how it is.

The other issue with the audio system is that, for all the system's bells and whistles, radio reception is not very good. If I drive down the A1 from Bedfordshire to London, listening to Radio 4, the reception keeps fading out. I've had no similar problem in my present or previous cars, and I've also compared notes with my neighbour, a Radio 4 fanatic who does a daily commute to North London. Between us we can report that a VW Golf, a base model Fiesta, a Land Rover Defender, a Mondeo, an Audi A5 a Peugeot 407, and a Peugeot 406 can all receive Radio 4 all the way from Beds to London.

Pete

[Doesn'tExist]

Interesting indeed. Logically I can see the dealer can't do anything about it, it really seems the head unit or amplifier is not calibrated correctly. As you said when we test drove the prius we thought it was weedy and tinny, so in came the jbl option. So now it is weedy and tiny but with front end clarity making it actually sound even worse. The clarity is great but when I picked it up I thought the dealer just it up wrong. Unfortunately they didn't.

Radio reception is indeed not good either, but luckily where we live which is not far from you dab reception is brilliant which is at least a bonus.

I would love to find out from non satnav owners what their sound system is like.

[Jan&tone]

I have the jbl system in my Gen2 - I must admit though that as it's MY car and I am the only one that drives it the sound system is set for ME, - balanced to the drivers seat! if anyone else wants to hear MY choice of music then they have to ask!

I pick up my Gen3 this weekend though so I will check it and if there is any difference I'll get back - although after that check the system will again be set for my preferences!

[Doesn'tExist]

I hear what you say and my previous car was clever where it had seat detection and adjusted the 14 speaker setup in accordance to the occupants automatically :-)

Out of interest in the generation 2 when you do put the fader to the back does the sound output volume drop as well? Sure I understand you don't want to drive like that but it is more the function than musical preference.

[Doesn'tExist]

Just done a slightly more scientific test opposed to just using my ears. The test was conducted with the same song from the hdd at volume level 25 with the fans off.

Fader in the middle in drivers seat 83dB

Fader in the middle rear seat behind the driver 81dB

Fader to the front driver seat 81dB

Fader to the front rear seat behind the driver 79dB

Fader to the rear driver seat 66dB

Fader to the rear rear seat behind the driver 70dB

Considering that the db scale is logarithmic it means that each 6dB difference equates to double the volume. Considering that there is an 11dB difference between the middle and the rear setting that means there is nearly 4x volume difference unless I am mistaken. No wonder it doesn't sound right to my ears and the rear Speakers stand no chance of filling in the gaps that i am hearing. It is like being back in my wives 1.0 corsa she owned in 1990.

Perhaps it is just me but I don't find that acceptable in a £27k vehicle in 2010.

[Jan&tone]

I hear what you say and my previous car was clever where it had seat detection and adjusted the 14 speaker setup in accordance to the occupants automatically :-)

Out of interest in the generation 2 when you do put the fader to the back does the sound output volume drop as well? Sure I understand you don't want to drive like that but it is more the function than musical preference.

Sorry, I've never tried that one... not really had the inclination to do so either!

I can only assume that Mr T considers that if you are in the back seat with the radio on then you could well be doing something that requires softer music, perhaps more romantic than normal ???

[Doesn'tExist]

Hi jan&tone. I think you are mis understanding me. I don't have an inclination to have the music only in the back either, that is not the point. It came as part of the determination why the sound system doesn't sound right, and once doing that it became clear as it is unbalanced and despite providing the illusion of the control to balance it, the fader doesn't actually do anything except reduce the volume in the rear whilst it doesn't do that when you fade it to the front.

[Jan&tone]

Hi jan&tone. I think you are mis understanding me. I don't have an inclination to have the music only in the back either, that is not the point. It came as part of the determination why the sound system doesn't sound right, and once doing that it became clear as it is unbalanced and despite providing the illusion of the control to balance it, the fader doesn't actually do anything except reduce the volume in the rear whilst it doesn't do that when you fade it to the front.

I was trying to inject a little humour :( - never mind, I'll have a play with mine over the weekend, will likely be out there for a while transferring some cd's on to the hard drive, sorting the bluetooth etc.... trials of a new car eh :)

you never know, i might even get to have a drive!!!

[kithmo]

I don't have the upgraded audio but Re: the standard T-Spirit audio (with NAV), I can't see a problem. Sure the rear Speakers are quieter than the fronts (by a long way), but you can just turn up the volume and re-adjust the fade to balance it all out. You just end up with the balance more to the rear on the adjustment diagram and a higher volume number.

The volume of sound from the front comes up a lot quicker than the rear (4 x ?) so you can fade fully to the rear, set the rear volume (+ a bit) then fade forward slightly to balance the front with the rear.

[Jan&tone]

Hi jan&tone. I think you are mis understanding me. I don't have an inclination to have the music only in the back either, that is not the point. It came as part of the determination why the sound system doesn't sound right, and once doing that it became clear as it is unbalanced and despite providing the illusion of the control to balance it, the fader doesn't actually do anything except reduce the volume in the rear whilst it doesn't do that when you fade it to the front.

I was trying to inject a little humour :( - never mind, I'll have a play with mine over the weekend, will likely be out there for a while transferring some cd's on to the hard drive, sorting the bluetooth etc.... trials of a new car eh :)

you never know, i might even get to have a drive!!!

Later....

I spent a large part of yesterday in my gen3 and teed the back seat wit the stereo on... Couldn't see any difference between front and back, sorry seems I can't help with this one. Volume seemed the same to me, but I don't have the jbl system, so maybe that's where the problem lies?

[Bike Nut]

The sound in my T4 which has no options at all, in my opinion is reasonably good. I agree that the volume is reduced in the rear when the fader is adjusted to the rear but having some experience with high end audio systems in cars this is how it should be. (I came 3rd in the UK with a previous car)

When setting up a system you want to set up the sound stage across the width of the dash board and right up against the windscreen at ear level. The rear Speakers should be set at a reduced volume as these should not drag the sound stage backwards towards the front seats. The sub-woofer as you say, should not be heard over the bass output of the front and rear Speakers, it should assist in the reproduction of the bass from the small diameter Speakers which are usually fitted to the doors.

The rear infill sound should be set via an amplifier adjustment, the head unit should still output 100% of the volume to the front and rear speakers. In my car as far as I am aware, there is no additional amplifier, so the head unit must have been factory set this way. Does the JBL system have an additional amp? If so, can you (or Toyota) adjust the rear speaker output to suit your taste?

I have no problems with the radio tuning, but the furthest I have been from 'home' is about 50 miles. so I may not gone out of range yet!

[Doesn'tExist]

I actually tested this in my audi and my Nissan over the weekend and they both move the sound to the rear. The manual for the t spirit also says it should do it.

There is an amplifier, I have got the old one in the box ;-) the diameter of the rear tweeter are the same as the front. The rear door Speakers are 6" models. Front door Speakers are 6x9. Then rears are rated at 4ohm compared to front at 2ohm yet connected in the same output amp.

Thanks to all for checking. The dealer is taking me seriously after hearing it and it is being investigated by Toyota uk now.

[Doesn'tExist]

I've got a win on this hopefully. Toyota has had our prius now for another week, and they are keeping it until Wednesday next week. They have officially had it for longer than us since we took delivery on 1/9 :-( But at least they gave me another T-Spirit...

Anyway, they agree the sound is not right but since there are no adjustments on the headunit, nor on the JBL amp that replaced the original Fujitsu amp (which also didn't have controls), they have agreed and are now bi-amping my setup They are going to add another JBL amp to it such that the sub and read speaker volumes can be balanced properly, to then have full controls through the head unit.

Here is hoping it will do the trick, as I must admit although our JBL didn't sound right the front sound stage is a 1000x better than a normal T-Spirit. I've only had talk radio on since I got the loan car....

[Doesn'tExist]

Well they sure know how to mess up at Steven eagell. They had my prius for another 8 days. Yesterday morning I was picking it up. Within one minute I got out and handed the keys back yet again.

There is an enormous thumb on the Speakers, not just when it gets switched on, but even when changing audio sources. Then there is a crackle on the rear Speakers, how they think that is acceptable is beyond me.

I've written to them now as a final opportunity and if they still can't fix it I will reject the vehicle. We have only had it for ten days since 1/9. I must admit the shine is really going off this experience. I really don't want to keep it.

[Doesn'tExist]

I've met with Operations Director today who gave me two choices;

1. Live with it and we work out a deal.

2. Remove it all and they provide a refund.

I gave him two more options;

1. Fix it properly and for once and for all and stop selling it until it works properly.

2. Take back the whole car, provide a full refund and we forget about it.

Funny that, the moment I got him to go into my car he understood what my problem is ;-) Although he did say most customer don't have sensitive ears like that he really could hear it.

So one more chance, and I get to meet the Toyota UK engineers to help them diagnose the root cause for these two separate issues.

Aargh....some days I am too nice :-)

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Forgive me if someone has mentioned this already but I just quickly skimmed through the thread. I DON'T have the JBL option and I too find that the sound level in the rear is not as loud as the front. Sometimes I've had customers want the radio on in the rear when I don't and I've turned the sound to the back and it just isn't as loud as the front. Is it to do with weak Speakers in the rear or are they smaller?

I don't care too much as I sit in the front but thought I'd add my two penceworth.

[Doesn'tExist]

Grumpy, I found that the problem exists with non-JBL as well indeed. Well at least with the loan vehicle I've had for nearly 20 days now. The volume goes down by 11dB, nearly 4x lower in normal English when you fade to the back.

I've got the original Speakers in my garage in a box, the tweeters are actually bigger in size in the rear. The Speakers themselves are smaller as they are normal round and not 6x9 like the front. As such I expect it to affect the frequency range, i.e. they can do less bass, but not the volume.

However one thing is odd, the rear Speakers are 4Ohm whilst the front speakers are 2Ohm. When running off the same amplifier I'd expect speakers to be of the same resistance. I've never seen an Amp that has different outputs as such.

Basically, yes I can understand you have to turn it all the way to the back and wack up the volume to get anything out of them.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

But arn't most cars like this? I remember some of our big 8 seater cabs behaving in a similar way. Up front is loud and in the back it wasn't quite as much and that was in VW's and Mercs.

I've found Toyota stereos/radios (or whatever the term is these days) to have really tinny, shallow sound systems. Was quite disappointed actually but wasn't going to let a poor stereo rain on what is otherwise a rather good bonfire.

[Doesn'tExist]

Depends on how many Speakers they have got and what the sound system it. Volume level shouldn't go down by a factor 4.

Our Murano (with Bose) didn't do that, my Audi A4 convertible (again with Bose) doesn't do that, my Nissan Navara (commercial vehicle) doesn't do that. My BMW 7's with 14 speaker dual subwoofer and double glazing didn't do that. Heck the DSP on that thing could make it perfect for each seating position and the seat sensor would automatically adjust it. Flipping nightmare when I had a take away as I had to spread it across the seats

[Doesn'tExist]

Oh but more importantly even though Toyota's official stance is that it works like that (I can understand their official stance), they are working with me to get it sorted at their expense So there must be something in it, best thing was the look on the face of the ops director today, that and him holding the pink car seat so he could get in the back

[rhawkins]

the fronts should always be louder than the rears, the rears are used as a fill. your ears point forwards and not backwards so for sound staging the point is that it sounds like its coming from infront of you. When you go to a gig the Speakers are all at the front, your ears face forwards so anything behind is just there to fill (give a bit of a surround) but shouldnt be the same volume as the fronts. the rears are also there for rear seat passengers and as someone who loves car audio my car is set to about 90% front Speakers with little to no volume coming from the back so as to keep the sound stage infront of me

[Doesn'tExist]

the fronts should always be louder than the rears, the rears are used as a fill. your ears point forwards and not backwards so for sound staging the point is that it sounds like its coming from infront of you. When you go to a gig the speakers are all at the front, your ears face forwards so anything behind is just there to fill (give a bit of a surround) but shouldnt be the same volume as the fronts. the rears are also there for rear seat passengers and as someone who loves car audio my car is set to about 90% front speakers with little to no volume coming from the back so as to keep the sound stage infront of me

I agree in normal setup, but what you are describing is the theory. My point is the that the rear Speakers don't play along at all, not unless you put the fader all the way to the back and then it is only at the very last setting that they kick in. And then when they do with no volume at the front at all (sure very unnatural but a valid test on the capabilities of the amp) it is 11dB less. This doesn't give any control on where the sound stage is coming from. It sounds like it is about 1 mile in front which is not good either.

Besides a gig is hardly the place to go to for sound quality ;-) But agreed I've only got two Speakers in front of me in my house in the quality system (separate from the home cinema system), however they do not project it forwards even more they allow me to get inside it. In the Prius it is way to much forward even more so when you sit in the back as there is nothing there.

Anyway Toyota is agreeing with me now that something is not right.

[FourFourTwo]

Besides a gig is hardly the place to go to for sound quality ;-)

It is if you go to one of my gigs!

(Maybe I'll explain one day if we get better acquainted.) :D

[Doesn'tExist]

You aren't part of the Bowers & Wilkins team are you I see their trucks and roadies appear a lot next to my office on smith square and always wonder about their gigs and sound quality. I do like their home and studio Speakers