Unstable?

[Aeneas]

On a recent trip of 1200mls to France my new Gen 3 Prius averaged 61mpg. I got the same mileage from a week's trip to North Wales and Yorkshire with mixed driving. However I notice that on less than perfect surfaces - the A55 along the Welsh coast - and at speeds higher than 60mph the car feels as if it is being buffetted by side winds. I felt it demanded more attention to the steering than other cars that I have owned. Anyone else have this experience?

[kithmo]

On a recent trip of 1200mls to France my new Gen 3 Prius averaged 61mpg. I got the same mileage from a week's trip to North Wales and Yorkshire with mixed driving. However I notice that on less than perfect surfaces - the A55 along the Welsh coast - and at speeds higher than 60mph the car feels as if it is being buffetted by side winds. I felt it demanded more attention to the steering than other cars that I have owned. Anyone else have this experience?

Do you have the 17" wheels on ?

I found on the last 4 cars I've had with low profile tyres, they tend to tramline a bit, the prius is no exception.

[Aeneas]

On a recent trip of 1200mls to France my new Gen 3 Prius averaged 61mpg. I got the same mileage from a week's trip to North Wales and Yorkshire with mixed driving. However I notice that on less than perfect surfaces - the A55 along the Welsh coast - and at speeds higher than 60mph the car feels as if it is being buffetted by side winds. I felt it demanded more attention to the steering than other cars that I have owned. Anyone else have this experience?

Do you have the 17" wheels on ?

I found on the last 4 cars I've had with low profile tyres, they tend to tramline a bit, the prius is no exception.

I have the standard tyres that come with the basic model. From my recent driving experience the Prius does seem to be more sensitive to bumps, hollows, changes in surface levels etc. which gives the effect of the car shifting on the road when driving at speeds over 60mph. Like I say, a bit like being buffeted by side winds. I wonder if it has something to do with the light weight of the car. (Or maybe I'm just ultra sensitive because it's a new car. But my wife reports a similar experience). I'm not sure what "to tramline" means?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

You'd know what tramlining was if it occured. The steering feels like you've got stuck on a set of tram lines - hence the name. It's almost like the car wants to go straight, even if you steer a bit and then it'll suddenly shift over.

I haven't found a problem with my Prius. I'd say it is average for handling but certainly no better or worse than any midrange Japanese hatchback and on a par with an Avensis too I'd say. Perhaps if people have come from sure footed BMW's and the like they may find the handling a little vague, but I personally like the Prius smooth and comfortable ride. If I wanted a harsh, sure footed ride I'd buy a VW.

[johalareewi]

I haven't found a problem with my Prius. I'd say it is average for handling but certainly no better or worse than any midrange Japanese hatchback and on a par with an Avensis too I'd say.

+1

The Prius steering does remind me of my GF's old Avensis but I don't have a problem with it. Just don't go throwing the Prius into tight corners at speed

[Aeneas]

You'd know what tramlining was if it occured. The steering feels like you've got stuck on a set of tram lines - hence the name. It's almost like the car wants to go straight, even if you steer a bit and then it'll suddenly shift over.

I haven't found a problem with my Prius. I'd say it is average for handling but certainly no better or worse than any midrange Japanese hatchback and on a par with an Avensis too I'd say. Perhaps if people have come from sure footed BMW's and the like they may find the handling a little vague, but I personally like the Prius smooth and comfortable ride. If I wanted a harsh, sure footed ride I'd buy a VW.

Thanks. I think my experience seems to be the opposite to tramlining. The car is travelling well, then there is a change in road surface and it sort of shifts beneath me, and I have to correct the steering to keep it straight. On a road with many surface changes, like the A55 in North Wales, and reasonably heavy truck traffic at points, it makes for attentive and sometimes anxious driving. I realise the Prius is not a high end luxury car and that it can't be thrown into corners at high speed, but I was sufficiently concerned at this experience to ask if others had found the same. The other slightly scary experince is going down long hills where easing off the throttle does not seem to have the same effect as in normal cars. I found for example driving in the Dales that I had to brake more than usually on long down hill stretches. Maybe this has to do with the regenerative braking system or maybe I should have used the "brake" gear.

[Jan&tone]

mmmm I think I know what you mean, over the years I've often had a 'wobble' when crossing the tracks that trucks tend to make on some A roads, I think that if you try and expect that something like that will happen you simply get used to it and tend to take no notice after a while...

quote

The other slightly scary experince is going down long hills where easing off the throttle does not seem to have the same effect as in normal cars. I found for example driving in the Dales that I had to brake more than usually on long down hill stretches. Maybe this has to do with the regenerative braking system or maybe I should have used the "brake" gear.

unquote

I've had that occasionally - M20 travelling southeast from the junction of the M25 tends to be a bit like that, either leave the cruise control on or a quick dab of the brakes helps. As far as using 'B' I've never really been sure whether there is a speed limit above which you shouldn't use 'B' - it's probably in the manual somewhere, but like most people I only read the manual as a last resort

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Because the engine is off when coasting there is no engine braking like in a normal car when going down a hill. The 'B' option on your gearstick is for this very scenario!

You will find that when using 'B' to go down a hill the engine will rev and rev quite loud at some points. This is normal and is in the manual too.

The Prius has its quirks as its not like any other car out there, but get used to it and how it needs to be used and it'll be fine and you'll enjoy the ride. I'm upto 33k miles now and no bother (touch wood).

[johalareewi]

As far as using 'B' I've never really been sure whether there is a speed limit above which you shouldn't use 'B' - it's probably in the manual somewhere, but like most people I only read the manual as a last resort

Just use B as you would D. All it does is use the engine as a braking device as well as regen and friction.

When you are not using the brakes, B does the same as D.

When you brake in B, some of the braking can be done by the engine. It's a bit like dropping to L (or 2 or 1) on an automatic.

You would normally use it when going down a steep hill.

You can switch between B and D while on the move (unlike what the manual says).

[kithmo]

Aeneas, wandering could be caused by the tracking being a little out (too much toe in IIRC). I don't know what the settings are for the Prius, but I do know that tracking settings for maximum fuel efficiency and least tyre wear would not be the same as settings for best handling. Most manufacturers go for something in between.

I'd let the tyres bed in a bit, then if it's still wandering, consider having the tracking checked.

[Aeneas]

Thanks for the comment and advice re steering. I will have the tracking checked if it presists. The car is only a month old so it has plenty of bedding in, and I have plenty to learn, yet. On the downhill issue I see the point about engine braking. If the engine cuts out on long downhill rides this would explain the sensation of the car running away with you on steep and long hills. In this case it would be essential to be able to change from "D" to "B" while driving. To put it at its most absurd: it wouldn't make sense to reach the crest of a hill, discover a steep incline, pull over, change gear and then descend. But I'm interested that other people seem to be having these unusual experiences with the Prius too.

[timberwolf]

It is used to be normal that in a regular automatic gearbox that there was no engine braking to speak of when in D. It wasn't until electronics replaced hydraulic control in automatics that it became common to have engine braking (hence modern automatics do have it - not sure how it works though).

I guess with the majority of UK drivers used to manual gearboxes, the switch to a Toyota Hybrid is going to be their first experience of owning an automatic?

[RNS]

It is used to be normal that in a regular automatic gearbox that there was no engine braking to speak of when in D. It wasn't until electronics replaced hydraulic control in automatics that it became common to have engine braking (hence modern automatics do have it - not sure how it works though).

I guess with the majority of UK drivers used to manual gearboxes, the switch to a Toyota Hybrid is going to be their first experience of owning an automatic?

that would make alot of scene to me coz... i ve never had a manual car.... so perhaps that's why i don't think it feels no different to the skoda or the C max before.

[Aeneas]

It is used to be normal that in a regular automatic gearbox that there was no engine braking to speak of when in D. It wasn't until electronics replaced hydraulic control in automatics that it became common to have engine braking (hence modern automatics do have it - not sure how it works though).

I guess with the majority of UK drivers used to manual gearboxes, the switch to a Toyota Hybrid is going to be their first experience of owning an automatic?

My last car was a Rav 4 with and automatic gearbox (av mpg 23!!!). So I am impressed with the Prius's fuel economy. The Rav though was very stable even at high speeds, probably because of the 4 x 4; and good doing down hills, probably a combination of 4 x 4 and engine braking. If it's the case that the Prius engine cuts out on descent then I can see that it would not have the same engine braking that normal automatics have and that it would operate more like a manual car. But the sensation of the car rolling ahead downhill is a bit scary for someone used to a bit more control.

[timberwolf]

My last car was a Rav 4 with and automatic gearbox (av mpg 23!!!). So I am impressed with the Prius's fuel economy. The Rav though was very stable even at high speeds, probably because of the 4 x 4; and good doing down hills, probably a combination of 4 x 4 and engine braking. If it's the case that the Prius engine cuts out on descent then I can see that it would not have the same engine braking that normal automatics have and that it would operate more like a manual car. But the sensation of the car rolling ahead downhill is a bit scary for someone used to a bit more control.

When I said engine braking, I didn't mean just the Petrol Engine, the Motor Generator can slow the car with regenerative braking (without you applying your foot on the brake). The car is also designed to glide well, which must have presented a design conflict with the need to provide control? (e.g. maintaining the gap between you and the vehicle in front with adjustment from the accelerator pedal only).

[Doesn'tExist]

You'd know what tramlining was if it occured. The steering feels like you've got stuck on a set of tram lines - hence the name. It's almost like the car wants to go straight, even if you steer a bit and then it'll suddenly shift over.

I haven't found a problem with my Prius. I'd say it is average for handling but certainly no better or worse than any midrange Japanese hatchback and on a par with an Avensis too I'd say. Perhaps if people have come from sure footed BMW's and the like they may find the handling a little vague, but I personally like the Prius smooth and comfortable ride. If I wanted a harsh, sure footed ride I'd buy a VW.

Thanks. I think my experience seems to be the opposite to tramlining. The car is travelling well, then there is a change in road surface and it sort of shifts beneath me, and I have to correct the steering to keep it straight. On a road with many surface changes, like the A55 in North Wales, and reasonably heavy truck traffic at points, it makes for attentive and sometimes anxious driving. I realise the Prius is not a high end luxury car and that it can't be thrown into corners at high speed, but I was sufficiently concerned at this experience to ask if others had found the same. The other slightly scary experince is going down long hills where easing off the throttle does not seem to have the same effect as in normal cars. I found for example driving in the Dales that I had to brake more than usually on long down hill stretches. Maybe this has to do with the regenerative braking system or maybe I should have used the "brake" gear.

It is exactly the reason I did not want the 15" wheels. I found the prius not as stable as it can be on windy motorways and that is with the lower profile tyres.

There is definitely room for improvement in the handling.

[Dave R.]

As far as using 'B' I've never really been sure whether there is a speed limit above which you shouldn't use 'B' - it's probably in the manual somewhere, but like most people I only read the manual as a last resort

Just use B as you would D. All it does is use the engine as a braking device as well as regen and friction.

When you are not using the brakes, B does the same as D.

When you brake in B, some of the braking can be done by the engine. It's a bit like dropping to L (or 2 or 1) on an automatic.

You would normally use it when going down a steep hill.

You can switch between B and D while on the move (unlike what the manual says).

It is always worth remembering that the Prius just isn't like other cars.... whereas in a regular car, it is "wrong" to ride the brakes going down long hills (hence, select low gear and use engine braking), the Prius uses regenerative braking, so if you ride the brakes gently, you'll just be topping up the Battery, rather than cooking the brakes! My assumption is that, looking at the eco display, provided the "braking" bar is not to 100%, then I'm using regenerative rather than conventional braking. True, though, for a REALLY long hill, the thing to do is engage "B" for engine braking. Same principle applies to sitting at lights with your foot on the brake - when the car is stationary & the brakes are on, all engines are stopped so you aren't wasting energy with the car trying to push against the brake.

[Aeneas]

Thanks for the advice. If I read it correctly I should use the brakes when travelling down inclines and moderate hills eg on motorways and national roads. But use the B gear when driving downhill in really hilly and mountainous areas. Sounds like common sense really, but there are aspects of the Prius that are a bit counter intuitive and need getting used to. The advantage of this forum is that it gets a wide range of experience and perspectives.

[Doesn'tExist]

No different really compared to using the lockup in a normal gearbox. Only time I've used those was on steepish snowy hills. Oh and launching my boat but that is a bit unique :-)

[Joseph D]

As far as using 'B' I've never really been sure whether there is a speed limit above which you shouldn't use 'B' - it's probably in the manual somewhere, but like most people I only read the manual as a last resort

Just use B as you would D. All it does is use the engine as a braking device as well as regen and friction.

When you are not using the brakes, B does the same as D.

When you brake in B, some of the braking can be done by the engine. It's a bit like dropping to L (or 2 or 1) on an automatic.

You would normally use it when going down a steep hill.

You can switch between B and D while on the move (unlike what the manual says).

I realise it has been a long while since this post was added too, but I found an excellent explanation of the B gear that i thought would be helpful for new Prius owners who might wonder how to use the B gear, given some of the mis-information out there and some's propensity to not RTFM.

Here it is: http://techno-fandom...ars/b-mode.html (Please Note, it is written pre-Gen III, but in general the information still mostly holds true)