Possible Turbo Blown?

[stanna]

Hi All

Rav 4 D4D 2001 2.0 100k miles.

Just been on motorway when i noticed a mettalic noise (doing around 70mph)

Pulled onto hardshoulder and its an awful noise sounds like very thin (tinny)metal rattling increases with increase in revs.

No lights on dash, no noticeable drop in power, no smoke of any colour.

Under bonnet sounds like its coming from the turbo (almost sounds like a loose exhaust component rattling but definately not that).

Decided to limp home and after restart noise got worse but now a whistling/howling noise along with rattle. Couldnt check power loss as kept in low revs due to awful increase in the noise.

I'm suspecting blown turbo but have never dealt with turbos before.

Just getting tools out but would appreaciate comments suggestions etc.

Thanks. Can see my bank card starting to glow.

[anchorman]

Possible

Take the pipes off and look inside for clues

[stanna]

Thanks

Got intercooler off and its full of oil, all pipes and the radiator part itself, this shouldnt be there should it? Felt inside where air filter hose connects to the cool side of turbo and feeling the ends of the vanes some feel really jagged which i assume is damage. Also oil around this connection when removing hose.

Started work removing turbo as i feel sure its broken given the oil in the intercooler and pipes and damaged vanes.

What a crap job. Hands need to about a third of the size and spanners to match. Haynes manual as useful as ever!! Just remove this and that and you turbo pops off. They want shooting.

Dont suppose anyone has any Toyota datasheets on this do they?

Do you think my turbo is shot?

Anyone had turbo problems on this nodel?

Thanks.

[anchorman]

Just keep in mind that even a healthy turbo often leaks an oily residue. The jagged edges sounds a bit suspicious but it depends what you are feeling of course. Here are your pdf's;

turbo 1.pdf

turbo 2.pdf

turbo 3.pdf

turbo 4.pdf

turbo 5.pdf

[stanna]

Thanks for those.

I should have it off tomorrow but i definately felt that some tips of the vanes were damaged whilst some were nice and squared off.

Been trawling for a repair kit but its not going to be cheap by the looks of things.

I have had a whining noise for the last month or so but is sounded more like the alternator might be due new brushes. Guess i will not know.

Looks like lucky me is the only one with a damaged turbo.

Thanks for the help

[anchorman]

You need to find a good second hand one. Don't waste your time playing with the broken one.

[stanna]

Ill have a good look round but finding a good one is a matter of trust and the types that deal in second hand goods arent known for their charm in my experience.

I was wondering if you could tell me what fixing is on the exhaust.

Its the short piece where it connects from the underside of the Pot like CAT to the second stage of the exhaust which looks like a conventional CAT.

They are pretty stiff but i cant tell if they are a nut and bolt, nut and stud, or bolted into a tapped section.

Pretty tight whatever and i cant shift em but dont want to put the heat on till i know which bit turns.

Thanks for all your help Anchorman

[anchorman]

Ihad one off not long ago but I can't remember! I thought it was 2 bolts into captive nuts. They were quite tight as they tighten up to shanked shoulers on the bolts but there are also 2 springs that allow the exhaust to swivel. Nothing in the manual I'm afraid;

[stanna]

Got em off. your right bolts into cap nuts. Bit of heat and a strong bar.

Turbo is off and its pretty conclusive - buggered!

Central bearing appears to have gone and the oscillation has caused the vanes on compressor side to catch the housing breaking off bits of the vanes. Lot of oil about which i assume is the shards tearing up the oil seals.

Question is where have these shards gone?

The casing seems surprisingly unscored with just a mark where vanes have caught. Guess vanes must be of soft alloy construction.

All in all a horrendous task to achieve.

Tips for removal of turbo.

Remove first section of exhaust. 14mm and 12mm ring spanner and socket with a variety of extension bars.

Remove CAT same tools

Remove heat shields all 12mm

Remove upper Cat mounting bracket.

Remove lower Cat mounting bolts but can leave bracket in place that it sits on

Remove air filter box.

Remove silver coolant pipe for access to Bracket bolts that secure turbo to block incredibly tight and i sheared off one bolt head cant wait to fix that!.

Remove bracket bolts but cant take bracket out until turbo is removed.

Remove 3 14mm bolts securing turbo to manifold after first disconnecting oil flow/return flange. Cow to get at but they are 10mm ring or socket 1/4 inch drive and lot of swearing and elastoplast's. Unlike the coolant flange which are 12mm heads.

You might need help with this job as you have to work under car and a spare pair of hands to guide your socket on is essential. Get a 3, a 5 and a 12 inch extension bar to aid with the underside nuts/bolts.

Turbo and Cat come out together quite easily. You probably could leave Cat in place but would have to remove all its mounting brackets to give you play to seperate it from turbo and access to 4th bolt that connects them together is a nightmare unless you have a stubby 12mm ring and strength of 5 men. Dead easy when they come out together so dont waste your time trying like i did.

Can anyone suggest where i can sort my turbo????

In west Manchester area.

Fed up as i had to do the DMF on this motor last year. Toyota - they dont go wrong often but when they do....

Cheers

[anchorman]

A quick search on the net;

http://www.turborepairs.com/

I think my mate used this one;

http://www.turbotechnics.com/

Just have ring round and see what you can come up with. Findapart might locate one but watch the price compared to a recon.

[three5]

A quick search on the net;

http://www.turborepairs.com/

I think my mate used this one;

http://www.turbotechnics.com/

Just have ring round and see what you can come up with. Findapart might locate one but watch the price compared to a recon.

Used Turbotechnics for an Isuzu turbo that gave up. They were brilliant - helpful, reasonably priced and high quality repair. They will almost certainly recondition your unit for you.

[stanna]

Got a few irons in the fire now but not going to get much change out of £500.

Any chanc you have the part numbers for the gaskets and nuts and bolts i will have to replace Anchorman.

This vehicle was my first Toyota - the first time I have been in a position to afford a decent car and Toyota was my choice after years of repairing crappy Fords, Vauxhalls and Peugots. Cant help but be disappointed by what i have had to do on a vehicle with only 100k on the clock and a full history. At least with the apparently crappy makes i have had the parts that failed were reasonable parts to fail ie cltuch, alternator, starter etc and the part prices were far more reasonable than what i have forked out for this Toyota.

Dont get me wrong i love the vehicle but having to replace a flywheel at 70k and a part cost of £600 followed by a turbo at a price of at least £500 for a remanufactured model is not acceptable. I eventually accepted the flywheel as a one off but this is too much. I would expect this buying Fiat or other well known poor build quality cars but i am surprised and disappointed with Toyota. Im fortunate in that i can do the repairs myself but i pity those who have had massive bills for fitting these parts which seems to always mean at least 12 hours labour.

I was looking at replacing this year for another Toyota 4x4 and given i wanted to do a European tour with it i will be looking at other manufacturers after this experience. Just imagine being abroad and a simple clutch problem or rattle on the engine turns out to be a major component failure.

Very disillusioned!

Thanks for the help Anchorman its much appreaciated.

[anchorman]

Unfortunately I don't have part No's but if you pm Kingo he will send them to your house at a discounted price.

I can understand how you feel about this vehicle but the 4.2 with a D4D has some week spots or necessities which unfortunately you have copped for. I have listed them in the order of likelihood all sarting from about a mileage of 50k;

DMF (£1800) 80%

SCVs (£200) 40%

VSV/VRV (£200) or mend for £0 - 20%

Rear calipers (£100 per side) - 15%

Turbo (£1500) 5%

Timing belt change (Routine at 60k £300) 100%

There are one or two others like the occasional cylinder head gasket which have come to light more recently but these are few and far between but compared to another marques this list isn't bad and you can add the DMF to any of them with a ranking of 90-100%.

Don't mend it then flog it as you will have just provided some lucky Derek with a right good motor.

[stanna]

eh up

Been cleaning parts etc whils i await my £660 recon turbo. Just flushed through the intercooler and air hoses after which i have found in the bottom of the bowl 3 1/2 pieces of the damaged turbine vanes. Which means there are 2 1/2 pieces missing.

Dont know which part held them as only found after cleaning all hoses and intercooler.

Im assuming the compressor side draws air through the air filter into turbo, compresses it sends it through the intercooler and into the throttle housing. I have a feeling my missing pieces are either in there or gone through into somewhere nasty. The metal is none magnetic so i cant dig round with that so i guess i'll have to have that off as well.

Why no magnetic sump drain plug.

Guess ill also have to but some kind of magnet into the sump drain hole and have a fish around.

Anchor man have you any datasheets on the throttle housing assembly etc.

What are the chances my missing pieces are in a very bad place?

If im doing this i might as well take out the starter motor. Only reason for this is i think my new clutch has been contaminated when it was renewed. When engine is hot i get a lot of judder when setting off in first.

Advice welcome on how i might achieve this?

Thanks chaps.

[anchorman]

No magnetic sump plug on a Toyota engine because they are free of metal filings. You only get them in the transmission.

Take the intercooler off and give it a shake. Here is the throttle body;

throttle body.pdf

Take the pipes off and look inside. Don't be too surprised if you don't find the bits as they can end up as dust when they make contact at 100,000rpm. Whats done is done now. All you can do is the obvious and give it a try. When you put all the pipes back, wipe out the oily residue and snug those clips up tight or they will blow off under load.

[stanna]

thanks

Already flushed the intercooler through with white spirit. Throttle housing is full of oil as was everything so will have to take it out. I assume after the throttle housing its next stop the cylinder via inlet manifold?

Raining today so cant see much happening, Nipped in to local Toyota today looking for a bit of advice but mechanic was an **** who wouldnt get up and speak to me so they can kiss my sweet ***** for any further trade from me.

Congratulations - you just lost a sale on a new Aygo from my daughter!

Will try Europarts for my gaskets etc.

On that note the Turbo has been supplied with paper gaskets for the oil/coolant pipes whereas the originals are metal. Any harm in re-using the originals? Getting tighter by the minute with this car.

Cheers

[anchorman]

Some of these people ar so far up their own backside. With regard to the gaskets, you can always try them and change them if they weep - I know what you mean, I would prefer the old ones too.

[stanna]

Did you mention there was a poster who could get Toyota parts on the forum. Despite assuring me that the recon turbo comes with all nut/studs etc there is not a one to have come with it. Cant trust anyone these days.

Snapped a bolt as well so need some replacements if thats feasible.

Cheers

[three5]

Did you mention there was a poster who could get Toyota parts on the forum. Despite assuring me that the recon turbo comes with all nut/studs etc there is not a one to have come with it. Cant trust anyone these days.

Snapped a bolt as well so need some replacements if thats feasible.

Cheers

Hi Stanna,

The member you are looking for is "Parts King" or Kingo as we all refer to him. If you PM him he will usually respond very quickly and he operates an excellent delivery service. Lots of satisfied customers on here

[three5]

Did you mention there was a poster who could get Toyota parts on the forum. Despite assuring me that the recon turbo comes with all nut/studs etc there is not a one to have come with it. Cant trust anyone these days.

Snapped a bolt as well so need some replacements if thats feasible.

Cheers

Hi Stanna,

The member you are looking for is "Parts King" or Kingo as we all refer to him. If you PM him he will usually respond very quickly and he operates an excellent delivery service. Lots of satisfied customers on here

Sorry Stanna - should have looked at your location before posting. Don't know which side of Manchester you are on but Kingo is based at Lindop Toyota, Queensferry ( Chester ), which is not so far from you if you needed to collect the parts urgently.

[stanna]

Thanks i'll give him a nudge.

[stanna]

Ok chaps got all my bits (cheers Parts King) and a recon turbo £560 exchange (!Removed! ouch!)

Stripped out all the inlet manifold/throttle housing found nothing?

Guess ill have to go for it.

Been a while as the reserve vehicle (corsa) decided to collapse its water pump bearing at just the right time so been doing that along with new timing belt etc.

Tell you all if you want parts try Europarts. Best i could get for a corsa pump online was about £25. Europarts £8.50 plus vat. Plenty of them about now as well.

Anyway onto the rebuild.

Snapped an inlet manifold bolt with a dodgy torque wrench but im leaving it as its at the end and i can sort it after if it leaks. To cold and fed up to strip it all down again.

I need to prime the new turbo with oil so i was wondering (as im not a diesel head) how can i prevent the car starting.

Turbo says to crank engine whilst holding turbo vanes to preven turning so oil supply pipe fills up and takes all air out of turbo. Disable starting system so it primes by just cranking.

Q. What do i disconnect to stop it firing?? I dont fancy my fingers chances holding that vane if it does??

Cheers

[anchorman]

You could just disconnect the injectors. It might throw up a fault light but you can get rid of that after by disconnecting the Battery.

[stanna]

Sorry forgot to update.

Got everything back together and its running again.

Thanks Anchorman for you help and to Partsking for my bits.

All in another cow of a job that is !Removed! expensive to put right even if you can do it yourself.

Think my alternator is on the way out now judging by the high pitched whine coming from engine now. I hope its the alternator and not the !Removed! new turbo.

Important note. If you get a new or recon one check the outlet is in the right spot before you fit it. Mine wasnt and i didnt notice till i came to fit the intercooler back on. Another 20 quid in new hoses to make it fit. Think they might warn you that their fitting is a guess!

Thanks for the help

stanna

[anchorman]

Buy a stethascope for about a fiver and listen to that alternator.