Changing Run Flat Tyres

[Cyker]

Wow, it does seem like it would be cheaper in the long term to buy a new set of standard rims and tyres!

Ahh, if only those airless tyres on Tomorrows World had made it to market!

[SandroFR]

Hi everyone,

I am a new comer to this forum. I live in France and recently bought a T180. We obviously have the same amount of frustration over here regarding the BSR system which I will not qualify in public as I would probably end up in court. Anyway, I have done a lot of research on this side of the channel and to cut a long story short, there are some dealers (probably a handful across the whole country) who accept to remove the ring and fit "normal" tyres. The cost is shockingly high (900 GBP for 4 BR Dueler including labor) but it's either that or putting new BSRs on an average 300 GBP a piece!

Interestingly enough, one of the Rav4 France Club member enquired to the french equivalent of the DVLA whether those stupid BSRs were part of the technical specification of the car and apparently they are not. So technically a change to normal tyres without modifying the spec of the car is possible. Added to the fact that there are some dealers (although not many) who are willing to do it, I would assume that whoever says it is not possible to remove these BSRs has an interest in doing so (I suppose when you have bought a very expensive piece of machinery, you want a return on your investment.....).

Also, the French trading standards Agency was contacted by the same Rav4 France Club member who put a case to them for what is nothing but a monopolistic situation butafter review, they came back indicating that the monopoly was not proven. Don't know what more they want but anyway.

As I travel regularly to the UK for work, I am looking for a cheaper alternative to get rid off these BSRs. Would anybody be able to recommend a dealer or tyre fitter in the West London or Kent areas that accept to take the ring off and replace with normal tyres?

Cheers,

S

[proxonic]

Hi Guys,

At the beginning i was really scared about having those BSR Tires on my RAV4. I'm travelling a lot and having puncture somewhere in Poland or Spain or Greek - it could be a tragedy.

s

But - i'm living in Germany - close to Cologne. There is a dealer in Sankt Augustin.

In November 2010 i bought 4 new winter tires in internet - 4 x 235/55 R 18 99 VREDESTEIN - WINTRAC 4 XTREME (99424) = €747.32

I took the tires to the dealer - they removed the support rings and put my new winter tires on the original rims - all together - about 250 € - so not so bad.

Pressure sensors are on place. Everything works like a charm.

I even have still two old Bridgestone tires (two went to trash - 3 years old). Those Bridgestone tires i can still put again on my rims - without having support rings.

The guy by Toyota said - the idea of BSR was great but it went totally wrong. What i can say more :)

[mikis]

Hi Guys,

At the beginning i was really scared about having those BSR Tires on my RAV4. I'm travelling a lot and having puncture somewhere in Poland or Spain or Greek - it could be a tragedy.

s

But - i'm living in Germany - close to Cologne. There is a dealer in Sankt Augustin.

In November 2010 i bought 4 new winter tires in internet - 4 x 235/55 R 18 99 VREDESTEIN - WINTRAC 4 XTREME (99424) = €747.32

I took the tires to the dealer - they removed the support rings and put my new winter tires on the original rims - all together - about 250 € - so not so bad.

Pressure sensors are on place. Everything works like a charm.

I even have still two old Bridgestone tires (two went to trash - 3 years old). Those Bridgestone tires i can still put again on my rims - without having support rings.

The guy by Toyota said - the idea of BSR was great but it went totally wrong. What i can say more :)

I would like to ask you is there a forum like this in germany.If there is, do people complain about the BSR system?

[KathyP]

Last Friday I picked up a nail in my rear nearside tyre. This is the second time this has happened in the 3 years I have owned my T180 RAV4. This is also the second time this has happened in my 30+ years of driving!! Do RFT's attract nails by any chance?

Anyway, my nearest garage that supplies these tyres is 36 miles away and because the tyre was very flat, I was uneasy about driving that distance on it, so I got in touch with Green Flag. They would not authorise a temporary repair and inflation so that I could get to the garage, so I had to accept a breakdown truck to take me. Because it was over 10 miles away, I had to pay £60 + VAT for the service.

My rear tyres were due for replacement anyway, so I decided to get both rear tyres replaced. The garage removed the tyres without damaging the rings, so I only had to pay for the tyres, but they charged a handling charge because they re-used the old rings !

They quoted price for tyres and rings were £183.12 per tyre; £157.57 per ring. The actual charge, after the service charge, balance, VAT, etc. was £452.32 for two tyres.

The price is one thing, but for me it is the inconvenience of not being able to call a mobile tyre fitter, or get towed to your nearest KwikFit/ATS/wherever that really annoys me.

The depot manager at the tyre shop said that they can remove the rings and fit ordinary tyres at a cost of £45 per wheel plus the cost of the tyre. They have, in fact, done this for several customers already.

So, I have two questions :-

1. Would I have been OK to drive the 36 miles to the tyre shop on my flat tyre. I know that you are supposed to be able to drive up to 100 miles (I think) but is this really OK and would it damage the ring?

2. What do people think of the charge of £45 per wheel to replace with ordinary tyres? Is it recommended and should I consider this option when my runflats are starting to wear a bit thin.

I love my car and I really do not want to part with it, but the tyre thing is a major drawback for me.

Kathy

PS - What is a BSR?

[MarsKy]

I got in touch with Green Flag. I had to pay £60 + VAT for the service.

1. Would I have been OK to drive the 36 miles to the tyre shop on my flat tyre. I know that you are supposed to be able to drive up to 100 miles (I think) but is this really OK and would it damage the ring?

2. What do people think of the charge of £45 per wheel to replace with ordinary tyres? Is it recommended and should I consider this option when my runflats are starting to wear a bit thin.

PS - What is a BSR?

The Toyota AA Roadside Assistance is just under £60 per year. As far as I know, they would have taken you to a Toyota dealer.

The point of the support ring is to allow you to drive for some distance (I've seen 50 miles, I've seen up to 100 miles), so 36 miles would have been okay. But you are correct, you may damage the ring.

£45 per wheel is excessive. Find a garage who are confident in fitting tyres with TPMS. Get them to take the tyre off and carefully take an angle grinder to the ring. Then you can fit any 235/55/R18 tyre from any supplier, and much cheaper than Toyota dealer's option (which is only one option!)

BSR stands for Bridgestone Support Ring.

[mcroy313]

Thinking ahead for when my Bridgestones need replacing... Does anyone know what the insurance implications are for removing the RFT's and replacing with standard tyres? I'm guessing you need to inform them as you modifying the car? Has anyone done this?

Thanks

Tom

[mark2391]

Little bit off topic , I have a XTR and purchased some wheels for it as it doesn't have a spare wheel (not on run flats either )

If anyone is interested , I have a couple spare if anyone wants a spare or 2 . They are alloys in good condition on part worn tyres 225/65R17 101H . If interested email me on m.allin@sky.com , consider reasonable offers. mark

[Adrian_0]

Guys,

If I manage to persuade somebody to chop off the safety rings (unlikely, but willing to phone around), has anyone found a 255/35 r18 standard runflat alternative tyre??

I can't find one!!!!

My nearest Toyota dealer (Plymouth) are quoting me 267pounds per corner to change my worn tyres. It's also a 140mile round trip to get there.

I'm seriously thinking about replacement wheels, but does this then give the potential hassle of insurance issues and 'modifying' your car?

Thanks in advance!

Adrian.

[blue monster]

Shop around mate, I have just bought a perfect T180 alloy wheel complete with a brand new tyre, new BSR ring & new TPMS valve for £270.

My local Mr. T seem very reasonable for prices and you can buy the run flat Bridgestone tyres off e-bay (Mr. T dealer) for £206 with free delivery - here Pentagon Toyota

Surely your local dealer is not going to charge £60 per corner to change them if you take the route I have suggested?

[Adrian_0]

Monster, I'm curious as to why you needed another wheel - hopefully a replacement rather than a spare to carry??

You've done really well with the wheel and tyre for 270quid. I've just been quoted 410.

More research today has uncovered the following:

Toyota Plymouth source the Bridgestone Deulers for 179+vat.

They charge 267 for a fitted tyre, assuming you drive in on inflated wheels.

If you've had a flat then it's likely you'll be charged a further 60 quid for a new BSR.

On my mileage, I'm certainly looking at 4 tyres per year.

There is no runflat alternative to the BSR in our 18" tyre size.

The only alternative is a normal tyre.

The Rav4 wheels will accept a normal tyre without any problems.

I'm told even the sensors will behave themselves!

I have found a garage in Wales that has the kit and will remove the BSR to enable normal tyres to be fitted.

(Toyota themselves will not do it)

My insurance company are quite happy for me to change to normal tyres without any affect on my policy.

I'm resigning myself to the fact that a significant puncture will be a roadside recovery.

All's left is the question of tyre repair.

Does anyone know if the tyre sensors would be affected/damaged by using a liquid tyre repair? Something like Holts Tyre Weld.

Or, is there a space saver that will fit the rav4?

Thanks,

Adrian.

[Davrav]

Monster, I'm curious as to why you needed another wheel - hopefully a replacement rather than a spare to carry??

You've done really well with the wheel and tyre for 270quid. I've just been quoted 410.

More research today has uncovered the following:

Toyota Plymouth source the Bridgestone Deulers for 179+vat.

They charge 267 for a fitted tyre, assuming you drive in on inflated wheels.

If you've had a flat then it's likely you'll be charged a further 60 quid for a new BSR.

On my mileage, I'm certainly looking at 4 tyres per year.

There is no runflat alternative to the BSR in our 18" tyre size.

The only alternative is a normal tyre.

The Rav4 wheels will accept a normal tyre without any problems.

I'm told even the sensors will behave themselves!

I have found a garage in Wales that has the kit and will remove the BSR to enable normal tyres to be fitted.

(Toyota themselves will not do it)

My insurance company are quite happy for me to change to normal tyres without any affect on my policy.

I'm resigning myself to the fact that a significant puncture will be a roadside recovery.

All's left is the question of tyre repair.

Does anyone know if the tyre sensors would be affected/damaged by using a liquid tyre repair? Something like Holts Tyre Weld.

Or, is there a space saver that will fit the rav4?

Thanks,

Adrian.

Don't want to speak for Blue but I'd lay a shilling that the new wheel is almost certain to be a spare. If a replacement is needed in a hurry he will have one in his back pocket. Can sometimes take days to get one of these tyres replaced/repaired, depending on your location.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES use any kind of liquid tyre repair It will totally fritz the sensors and quite possibly make the tyre U/S too. The stuff is, apparently, a nightmare to clean out of the tyre and results in extra work for fitters who need a pefectly clean surface to effect repairs.

As far as I am aware from following the extensive 'Run Flat' discussions here, there is no suitable space saver available. Many of us with bare rear doors have sourced spares either as they appear on e-bay or from aftermarket suppliers. Toyota do supply a full size steel wheel at circa £110 I believe.

Hope that helps though probaly not what you want to hear

[Adrian_0]

Blimey - Thanks!

Anyone got experience of having the sensors removed form the wheels?

What would my Rav think in the sensors weren't there???

Would it be a recoding job for the main dealer???

The solution may be to remove the sensors when taking off the BSR - although it does seem a shame.

A new wheel option is starting to sound more likely...

I have seen somewhere that a honda crv wheel with a changed inner ring (?) will work as a spare - however this doesn't mean much to me.

Anyone else heard of this?

[wardude]

The Run Flat system was the bain of my life for a year. however its now cured.

1. cut the pink wire and ground it behind the dash (ten min job) theres a post on here how to do it. This disables the stupid light that pops up on the dash when you have a puncture

2. get the tyres removed and bin the sensors. Cut or get Toyota to remove the support band.

3. Fit any tyre you wish with normal tyre valves

4. pop a spare wheel in boot or a can of tyre gunk

5. Job done. You are now run flat free and you can get a new tyre replaced or repaired at ANY high street tyre service centre at approx £100 per corner

[blue monster]

Dave is right, the main reason I bought it as a spare for when we go any distance from home given that you are restricted to 100 miles max on a run flat and the fact that most of our family live at least 200 miles from us. Also, with having a recent puncture I did not want the hassle of the car being off the road again whilst I am waiting for the puncture to be repaired and as an extra precaution I have bought a dynaplug kit for when I am not carrying the spare wheel so that I can sort a puncture without the help of Mr T.

The other reason I bought it is that one of the wheels on our T180 is slightly kerbed & was like this when we bought it. So being the OCD man that I am I was on the look out for a mint replacement/additional wheel rather than get the lightly kerbed one refurbed - that can be used as the spare.

Now I have the best of both worlds - a perfect T180 wheel, a brand new tyre complete with BSR rings and a spare wheel

[Adrian_0]

Monster, that would be my preferred solution if I wasn't travelling so far with work.

I'll be hamstrung with tyre availability, loosing my boot space and paying upwards of 1300 pounds per year on tyres.

I've made my decision.

Car is booked in to have the BSR removed.

I'm going to adopt the same system as Audi, Volks and Skoda use (as well as others...).

Normal Tyres, complete with tyre sensors. Contrary to the rubbish Toyota spout, they will work with normal tyres - pressures are the same.

A mini compressor in the boot and a can of liquid tyre sealant for proper emergencies.

Become a paid up member of the RAC.

Liquid sealant won't damage the sensor's electrics, but if not properly cleaned off, it will block the sensor ports - rendering the sensors useless.

Hopefully, for the one or two occasions a big puncture occurs in the 4yrs I'm running the car, I'll always be with a phone and my RAC card.

The cost will be 45 per wheel for the ring removal.

130 per tyre (fitted).

Then thankfully returning to the land of the normal and being able to use any normal tyre garage.

... There is one more thing though...

I'm giving Wardude's tip on isolating and removing the pressure sensors some further thought, as it is infuriating that I am unable to swap front and rear tyres to get more even wear.

Also good to know 'how' just in case I need to use a can of squirty gunk in anger and knacker a sensor!!!

It's good as always to know that there is some help and advice on the forums!

Thanks!

Adrian.

[wardude]

Adrian

Im sure you can swap your wheels around mate. The only thing it affects is the Toyota garages computer as each wheel is programmed into your cars brain and their computer as to which corner it is on. Swapping wheels around wont bring the light on. The main reason I took out the tyre sensors is the fact they are £150 each to replace and one of mine has a rather corroded stem. Now im totally free of the whole system. Normal tyres, valves and no pesky light coming on the dash. All the years I have driven as a car and a bus driver, I have never had to rely on a light to tell me when I have a puncture and I aint gonna start now. I have a spare tyre in the boot for long trips and a can of tyre gunk. i also have the local mobile tyre fitters number. In my books im alot safer now, as having the TPMS in meant had I got a puncture I HAD to be towed 60 miles to the nearest Toyota garage that had the tools to take my tyre off. Now if I have a puncture I just drive to the nearest Quickfit etc and it wont cost me upwards of £400

[Adrian_0]

NNoooooooo!!!

Wardude, will the sensors and valve arrangement also mean that the local tyre garage will struggle to change a normal set of tyres?

Guessing you mean that there may be some sort of Toyota reset procedure after a flat has been logged by the TPMS??

Sounds like the sensors may be going in the same bin as the Safety Rings !!!!

[wardude]

Hi matey

Naaa. I read on a post somwhere that each wheel is logged into the cars computer as each valve has a serial number. So, if you get a puncture Toyota know exactly which wheel it is as when they plug it into their machine it will say "tyre valve bla bla bla has a puncture. its located n/s rear".

Changing the wheels around on ya car wont upset the TPMS. It just means when you go to get a tyre on at Toyota, the valve in your wheel may show on Toyotas computer that its on back n/s instead of front n/s. Summit like that anyway. Im sure somone will put me right or find the thread it was in. theres that many !Removed! posts about run flats on here though lol. Just cut the pink wire and have done with it man lol

[Davrav]

I've made my decision.

Car is booked in to have the BSR removed.

Don't forget to ask for the rings [assuming they are un-damaged] you can sell them on. Likewise with the pressure sensors should you ultimately end up removing them

[MarsKy]

Hi matey

Naaa. I read on a post somwhere that each wheel is logged into the cars computer as each valve has a serial number. So, if you get a puncture Toyota know exactly which wheel it is as when they plug it into their machine it will say "tyre valve bla bla bla has a puncture. its located n/s rear".

Changing the wheels around on ya car wont upset the TPMS. It just means when you go to get a tyre on at Toyota, the valve in your wheel may show on Toyotas computer that its on back n/s instead of front n/s. Summit like that anyway. Im sure somone will put me right or find the thread it was in. theres that many !Removed! posts about run flats on here though lol. Just cut the pink wire and have done with it man lol

Yes. There are 4 tyre pressure sensors in all, up to 5 can be registered with the SR/T180. But only one warning light if any one or more lose pressure. As it will be obvious which tyre has loss of pressure (either visually or by a wee gauge) then there is no real issue in rotating wheels. I regularly did with my T180 - no problems.

The problem is if you buy a wheel on eBay with the sensor in it. If you want to replace an existing wheel and want the new tyre sensor registered, you need to get Mr T to remove the tyre to read the sensor's code to register the sensor. If they don't break the sensor in taking off the tyre (they did on one of mine) then you will have to pay that wee bit more to get the tyre off to read the code.

There are some systems where a handheld reader can get the code by just being held near the sensor. But not for the SR/T180.

[Adrian_0]

Thanks Guys!!

I'll ask the tyre fitter to bag up the BSR's for me. I should probably keep them just in case they're wanted when I sell the car.

(although couldn't imagine why!!!)

I may just check on eBay to see how much they go for.....

I'm going to keep the TPMS on and my pink wire intact to start with.

I can always get them removed at a later date.

Good to know that the wheels are swappable. My local tyre garage had the fear about doing anything to the car as soon as they saw my Rav4 arrive!!

[Adrian_0]

Safety rings are now in my Shed!

Normal Tyres on the car!!

King David Tyres in Newport have the machinery to remove the Bridgestone safety rings.

I would definitely recommend them to anyone considering having the rings removed.

A very professional company and Tim at their main office is really helpful.

[barkerboy]

Runflats eh!!

I bought my T180 last year and knew this day would come. And it has.

Sunday night 8pm in Birmingham with wife and 2 children on board ready to head home to Maidstone we curbed the tyre on one of those high curbs that sit round petrol pumps. I admit it was a big 'curb' not just a brush. I get out to see if the alloy is a mess. Thankfully it was ok but there was air rushing out of the tyre wall at a rate of knots.

I called my recovery firm (Auto Aid) and explained to them how exclusive the vehicle and tyre was. 40 minutes later they gave in after finding no one to come out and replace the tyre, what a surprise.. they agreed to transport us home. So we then had another hours wait for a truck to come and put us on the back. On the road at 10pm we got home at 2pm. Had these been 'normal' tyres/wheel we could probably have driven back after a straight tyre replacement. Thus getting home a bit earlier and without the near £500 bill for transporting which i now hope to claim back from Auto Aid.

So today i set about fixing the tyre. After umming and arring i decided to hell with them pesky rings i'm getting them removed. So i trawled to find the list of independants in Kent who have the machine to do it. I alomost felt like a spy at times talking is hushed tones about what i planned to do.

Watling Tyres Tunbridge Wells. Rang head office and chap was fine, he said he new about the BSR so ring Tunbridge Wells and ask for Alan or Nigel. Got Nigel who wasn't much use. He said he had the machine but wouldn't put a standard tyre on and leave the BSR off without a written memo from Toyota authorising this. What?? Its my car not Toyotas surely.

Next up Tyre Web Ashford. A helpful chap who told me their machine was broken. However there was a place in Canterbury. Did he know the name? No. So that was that.

Kwik Fit Maidstone? Yes sir we do run flats and have all the latest machinery. But have you heard of the T180?? No he said but we'll have a look for you. Didn't fancy this as no knowledge of the T180 and almost certainly don't have the machine if they don't know about them!

Toyota Maidstone. Went for a different approach. I have a T180 wheel and tyre which i would like removing along with ehe BSR then i just want to walk away with the wheel. Yes sir we can do this for £80. Great i thought. So thats what i did. £80 was a bit steep but i now happily have the wheel still with valve in tact, i have the support ring in tact and in my garage to refit any time i like and tomorrow im having a Bridgestone Dueler fitted by another garage for £175.

Just need to get some emergency gunk, a string repair kit and a spare 18" wheel. 1 wheel down 3 to go.

If anyone wants a picture of the wheel or the BSR let me know. I know £80 was dear but no one else would do it for cheaper without i suppose taking an angle grinder to it. Incidentally the unhelpful Nigel at Watling tyres later agreed to remove the BSR and tyre for me for £80, same as Toyota so no better.

Funny enough the young lad at Toyota that removed it for me came for an inquisitive chat with me. So you plan to put a normal tyre on then? Yes i said and he agreed he would do the same in my shoes but he wasnt allowed to do it. As for the front desk 'service' man. I said as you're removing it for me could you put a Dueler back on without the support ring? No he said, that isnt the correct spec for the car so we wouldn't be allowed to.

For anyone thinking about removing the rim i would recommend it if you plan to keep the car. Once all 4 have been removed i will effectively have the same set up as the XTR. No spare but a can of emergency gunk but with them lovely 18" instead the XTS 17". Final points of note: The lad that removed the BSR said make sure you put the wheel back on the same corner as you will get a warning light. The chap on the service front desk said i will get a warning light if i go through with taking the support ring off as the TMPS will be confused RUBBISH (i hope). And yes i realise if i put gunk in at any stage in the future it will damage the expensive valves but then i will result to the pink wire snipping.

What a load of tosh!

[barkerboy]

Update to my last post.

After having my tyre and BSR removed by Toyota yesterday for £80, today i had the new Bridgestone Dueler 687 fitted by another tyre store for £177. So now i have a new tyre and wheel re-united as one without the stupid ring. I did have to make another trip to Toyota however as they stupidly never gave me my centre cap back yesterday.

Something i learned today and knew already anyway is that Toyota staff will claim one thing but be totally wrong. Basis:

"If you take off the run flat ring and put a standard tyre on then you will have a warning light on the dash" WRONG - No i don't.

"If you swap the tyres round you will have a warning on the dash" WRONG - No i havn't. Before i put the wheel back on the car i moved it onto my front lawn, next to the front wheel and there was no warning light. The car does not know which direction the wheel is in. It may just be their computer that knows where each valve is?

And the biggest and most infuriating thing of all is Toyota must know this run flast system is rubbish. Why else would they ditch it for the XTS that followed. Or more to the point i saw a new 11 reg SR Rav when i came out today. What a surprise.. It has the same 18" wheels but guess what? No run flat Badge on the side of the Bridgestone Dueler and this is backed up by the brochure which states the SR complete with its 18" wheels come with a puncture repair kit.

The same wheels without a run flat band inside! Yet when i speak of removing my band its like, no way you lunatic you can't do that because of safety etc..!

I'm furious i've been made to seem like some kind of wild lunatic, and had to plot how i could get these damn things removed by bending truths and telling lies. And more to the point it cost me £80 for the pleasure!

In total my tow home and tyre replacement has cost over £700 when if it had been a straight 18" tyre it would have been replaced on the spot for around £200 to £250 i imagine.

I'm seriously considering writing to Toyota as i'm disgusted. Won't do any good though will it!

Pictures below of my saga.