Loss Of Power/strange Noise From Rav4 D4D (4.2/03 Plate))

[lloydp]

I finally got round to replacing my EGR valve today, having suffered loss of power between about 3000-4000rpm for some time. I also had a strange noise - like a sheet of aluminium foil rattling in the wind just as I come up around 2800rpm when accelerating hard.

Anyway, the new egr has not solved my problems, still a loss of power and still the strange noise, Dang!

I recorded it with my phone this afternoon, and you can hear it on

.

It may be that the power loss/noise are unrelated, but I feel it's likely. The noise seems to be coming from the engine bay, rather than say underneath the car.

Note: I have a performance chip fitted, and I disconnected it for a test - the noise then appears at around 4000rpm when I can get the revs up that high (almost no acceleration between 3-4k). Seemed also to be some surging, like the turbo suddenly cut in for a second, or the engine got some more fuel.

Would appreciate constructive comments! Have read just about every thread on the forum re SCVs, turbos, egrs etc, but would really appreciate it if someone has heard this noise before and knows what it might be...

Disgruntled David

[anchorman]

Check all the pipes to and from the intercooler. I think something is leaking air under pressure.

Brilliant youtube clip

[lloydp]

Thanks anchorman - I can do video/audio better than fixing the car :)

The intercooler is the 'radiator' on top of the engine right?

[anchorman]

Yes - have a good look around it and feel the seams around it while the engine is running to see if you can feel a leak. It is under pressure with the engine running.

[igormus]

I finally got round to replacing my EGR valve today, having suffered loss of power between about 3000-4000rpm for some time. I also had a strange noise - like a sheet of aluminium foil rattling in the wind just as I come up around 2800rpm when accelerating hard.

Anyway, the new egr has not solved my problems, still a loss of power and still the strange noise, Dang!

I recorded it with my phone this afternoon, and you can hear it on

.

It may be that the power loss/noise are unrelated, but I feel it's likely. The noise seems to be coming from the engine bay, rather than say underneath the car.

Note: I have a performance chip fitted, and I disconnected it for a test - the noise then appears at around 4000rpm when I can get the revs up that high (almost no acceleration between 3-4k). Seemed also to be some surging, like the turbo suddenly cut in for a second, or the engine got some more fuel.

Would appreciate constructive comments! Have read just about every thread on the forum re SCVs, turbos, egrs etc, but would really appreciate it if someone has heard this noise before and knows what it might be...

Disgruntled David

hello DAVID

this strange soind might be criated due to overfueliing cos of poor injection and this criates detone effect leading to vibration and rattle you ve posted via youtube. i feel one or two injectors do pour diesel bot not inject.

by the way -- what was condition of an EGR (old one)? what was the reason of its substituting? i would be agree with Anchorman, as well. the best way is to make general inspection of your engine. you must also conside the power lose having many reasons. because of it is turbocharged unit -- you must not be focused on the above listed spots only.

Cheers/Igor

[lloydp]

Thanks Anchorman - I'll have a look today and report back.

Thanks also Igor - I replaced the egr because of an incident some months ago - I was getting the flat spot so went out for a drive and tried to run the engine 'through' the flat spot. When I got home there was white smoke pouring out of the exhaust on idle, which prompted Anchorman to say quite rightly that the egr valve had stuck. Anyway, I cleaned it out and the flat spot problem went away for a while, although the noise remained. I had hoped that the egr was somehow responsible for the noise too, but obviously not. I gave the car a good test yesterday after fitting the new egr, and didn't get any incidences of white smoke. I did notice but forgot to mention that the noise seems to happen more when the engine is at working temp, rather than cold.

If a couple of injectors aren't injecting properly, what is the remedy for that?

David

[igormus]

Thanks Anchorman - I'll have a look today and report back.

Thanks also Igor - I replaced the egr because of an incident some months ago - I was getting the flat spot so went out for a drive and tried to run the engine 'through' the flat spot. When I got home there was white smoke pouring out of the exhaust on idle, which prompted Anchorman to say quite rightly that the egr valve had stuck. Anyway, I cleaned it out and the flat spot problem went away for a while, although the noise remained. I had hoped that the egr was somehow responsible for the noise too, but obviously not. I gave the car a good test yesterday after fitting the new egr, and didn't get any incidences of white smoke. I did notice but forgot to mention that the noise seems to happen more when the engine is at working temp, rather than cold.

If a couple of injectors aren't injecting properly, what is the remedy for that?

David

David

The injector is normal consumable that needs a doctor time to time. It is better to have them tested all at the same time -- the same data to be recorded in yr log book for future references (when to wait their next surprise). find a reliable fuel injection specialist having a stand for testing. be sure this one deals with electronically operated injectors. cheers/Igor

[lloydp]

OK, checked and tightened all the pipes from intercooler, and the terminating ends on turbo etc, not slack but managed a few turns on the jubilee screws with a socket.

Went out, warmed engine up, noise still bad. Decided to go for it and give it a thrashing (I've never red lined a diesel since I blew a head gasket on a Citroen). Accelerated hard through the noise but still very flat 3-4k rpm and surging definitely happening. Floored accelerator to no avail, and interestingly no black smoke out the back. Kept at it until suddenly found I'd got acceleration back WITH NO NOISE, so did a few more circuits going up to 5k - brilliant! Must have burned 1/2 gall of diesel in 5 minutes.

So, car's parked up and I'll try it again later. Still got that sickening feeling in the pit of the stomach that it'll be back...

I use Esso diesel and have since I bought the car just over a year ago. Maybe it's not good? Is there a recommended additive I could use to try and keep the system clean? I'm assuming the fault was fuel related though, when of course it may (might still be :( ) something else.

David

[anchorman]

Ok in that case I suspect the VSV was sticking. Its that little valve with two rubber pipes to the left of the air filer (on a bracket at the end of the engine). Very carefully take the two pipes off and try and squirt a bit of WD40 in the holes. There is an exhaust port at the end of it that will open the vacuum pipes to atmosphere.

vsv.pdf

[lloydp]

OK, I'll try that - the VSV pipes go to the egr valve don't they? So I'm squirting WD40 direct into the VSV, not the pipes?

[anchorman]

No they go to the vac unit on the turbo hence the loss of power. Yes, the holes are tiny so you won't get much in but you only need a drop - don't try filling it!!!

[lloydp]

As Victor Meldrew said - I dooon't beeleeve it!

Went out for a brief trip this morning - everything seemed fine.

Decided to have a go at the VSV, and squirted some WD40 into both pipes. Wasn't much as I didn't have a tube attachment for the nozzle. Refitted tubes. Turbo side was very loose so put a small cable tie around the outlet/pipe. (no it hasn't slipped and strangled the pipe!)

Just come back from a nightmare trip. At above 3k under acceleration the engine went into fault mode, remedied by stopping/switching off for a minute. Got out on the open road and managed to climb up to 4k without fault light (v sluggish 3-4k), but above this the engine kept 'pulsating' quite badly like the turbo or something was switching off and on. Came home and gave it a rev up in the drive - same pulsating about 4.5k. Didn't fault - this seems to happen more if the engine is under load.

<expletives deleted here> do I do now please?

David

PS, I don't have a fault tester gizmo

This is the right part isn't it? Top pipe goes to turbo vacuum.

[anchorman]

Find a small piece of pipe and just connect those two rubber vac pipes together then try it round the block (take that valve out altogether just as a test).

[lloydp]

Hmm, tried that, still the same. Bizarre - seems very odd I just moved a couple of pipes, added a drop of oil and this results.

Would like to find the fault code - is that possible on an '03 D4D? Was looking at the Launch CReader V.

Pulling my (remaining) hair out now.

David

Edit: Found your pdf on viewing flash codes. I have 24, 31 & 34but couldn't find a D4D specific interpretation of these. Hope you have a data sheet!

[anchorman]

Hmm, tried that, still the same. Bizarre - seems very odd I just moved a couple of pipes, added a drop of oil and this results.

Would like to find the fault code - is that possible on an '03 D4D? Was looking at the Launch CReader V.

Pulling my (remaining) hair out now.

David

Edit: Found your pdf on viewing flash codes. I have 24, 31 & 34but couldn't find a D4D specific interpretation of these. Hope you have a data sheet!

DTC 2 digit.pdf

[lloydp]

So what do you think anchorman? Codes seem to suggest airflow meter, and assuming that's the one on top of the air filter have just been out and tested resistance - 2k4 ohms at ambient temp. Will test voltage tomorrow if you think it's that.

Couldn't find code 34 on the list though - I may be reading them wrong, but I've put a vid on

if you can find a mo to have a look!

[anchorman]

You have got the codes right. Occasionally they don't match the charts exactly but tend to be grouped closely to an existing code - in this case 35 which is all to do with the VSV and turbo pressure sensor you have already homed in on. If you had it running at any time with part of that circuit disconnected it will have stored a code which may be a red herring. I think like you it is otherwise suggesting that MAF and you need to take it out of the equation. They sometimes pop up cheap on eBay. It doesn't explain the noise as well as the 35 items do but these things play funny tricks and one thing can affect the other.

I will dig out the test data for the MAF tomorrow but if you can drop on one cheap it might be a worthy investment anyway.

Another pat on the back for the youtube clip.

[lloydp]

Thanks again - I found some info that says test for open/short circuit, and then test for fluctuating voltage while blowing through the sensor. I've done the first so I'll check the second tomorrow. Not hopeful for a breakthrough - beginning to wonder if the new EGR is duff...

[anchorman]

Just try running it with the MAF disconnected. If it makes no difference it might be the answer.

[lloydp]

Right, disconnected MAF, MIL light came on straight away, but no limp mode. Performance seemed same as with it connected, until I managed to get the revs up about 4k then limp mode cut in. I had the performance chip disconnected - it cuts into limp mode just above 3k with this fitted.

Not sure whether this means MAF is suspect or not??

Incidentally, the noise has not come back since my thrashing the other day.

[anchorman]

Well if the performance is the same with or without it connected, it would seem that it would be a good starting point. You can clear the MIL by disconnecting the Battery.

[lloydp]

OK, thanks mate - anyone seen reasonable price MAFs anywhere? Some on eBay but wrong code - mine's 22204-27010

[slowboarder]

Hi, did you get to the source of that noise at all? We have the exact same intermittent noise on our engine and power loss.

Replaced the MAF, fuel filter, air filter, SCVs seem fine, VSV seems okay, no smoke, no MIL. Quality fuel and additive tried.

Can't find any intercooler or vacuum pipe problems.

Suspect that the variable vanes actuator arm is stiffer than it should be.

Tried working it up and down after spraying with WD40 but on a Previa that's over and behind the engine in a tight constricted space and destroys your fingers. Wondering how stiff it should be?

Also tried 10K Turbo boost to decoke the turbo variable vanes but it didn't make any difference.