Strut-bar Consequences...

[jasemeister]

Hey guys,

I was wondering about strut bars and how they affect the damage caused to our precious Toyotas when the car is hit on the side. Since it's basically a very stiff part joining the two suspension towers, wouldn't unnecessary damage be made to the suspension tower opposite of the one that took the hit???

[KevT3]

Hey guys,

I was wondering about strut bars and how they affect the damage caused to our precious Toyotas when the car is hit on the side. Since it's basically a very stiff part joining the two suspension towers, wouldn't unnecessary damage be made to the suspension tower opposite of the one that took the hit???

Is this true??

Kev

[K19NE G]

Hey guys,

I was wondering about strut bars and how they affect the damage caused to our precious Toyotas when the car is hit on the side. Since it's basically a very stiff part joining the two suspension towers, wouldn't unnecessary damage be made to the suspension tower opposite of the one that took the hit???

Is this true??

Kev

Yes! I've seen an AE86 Corolla Coupe with front left damage and a strut bar and it moved everything in front of the bulkhead sideways! The damage would have been minimal only for the strut bar!

[nrgizerbunny]

the problem is when your hit, you basically cause stress on the metal. when the stress exceeds the limit of the material, the material crumples.

the other issue with stress is, it always finds its way to the weakest place. so buy beefing up the shock towers you send the stress somewhere else.

sanj

[KevT3]

the problem is when your hit, you basically cause stress on the metal. when the stress exceeds the limit of the material, the material crumples.

the other issue with stress is, it always finds its way to the weakest place. so buy beefing up the shock towers you send the stress somewhere else.

sanj

Does that mean it's a good idea not to buy the strongest strut but one which has enough stiffness to hold the frame but will snap when too much force applied to it (i.e. during accident)??

[peterart]

The strut on my 99 Rav freesport is V shaped, from the shocker to the centre of the bulkhead and back to the other shocker, I assume if that got hit it would only cause stress damage to the bulkhead fitting. :)

[Jones~32]

The strut on my 99 Rav freesport is V shaped, from the shocker to the centre of the bulkhead and back to the other shocker

Same type strut as mine

[kingdeacon]

The strut on my 99 Rav freesport is V shaped, from the shocker to the centre of the bulkhead and back to the other shocker

Same type strut as mine

yep same way mine is to, its a much better way of doing it. after all its standard on my 1987 ae82, just how toyota intended it to be

[Richard K]

So what about the trd Triangular strut brace? is that too strong then?

[poultonjoe]

So what about the trd Triangular strut brace? is that too strong then?

At the end of the day its only going to make a difference if you crash.

I think its safe to say its fine as long as you don't drive like a t w a t !

Use your brain, if they were so bad...they wouldn't make them nor have a market for them!

[Richard K]

At the end of the day its only going to make a difference if you crash.

I think its safe to say its fine as long as you don't drive like a t w a t !

Use your brain, if they were so bad...they wouldn't make them nor have a market for them!

I'm sorry for not being engineering minded.

I did use my brain and common sense but I couldn't come to a proper conclusion, hence asking a question.

1. A straight brace was said to cause the damage to the towers.

2. A V shaped brace is less likely too cause as much direct damage

So assuming 2+1=3

So combining the two types, creates the a stronger Triangular brace

Which then means it will:

Spread the impact load between the bulkhead and opposing tower (less damage to tower)

or

Still Channel impact energy into the opposing tower from two angles on a side impact (not sure)

I know there's a market for them, I've just purchased my Straight strut brace and had the chance to purchase the Triangular one. And if I got a valid answer I can decide whether to keep the straight brace or purchase the triangular one and drill the bulkhead

And just remember side impacts are not only about driving irresponsibly (sp?) and you crashing.

It's also about being crashed into.

- pulling out at an awkward side road with cars parked right on the the junction blocking your view :ffs:

- someone else driving too fast and hitting you

- coming back to find someone driven into your car while it's parked (rare I know)

I'll admit I should of clarified my question, but was in a hurry.

Richard K

P.S. I've gotta find the balance between type too much or too little

[poultonjoe]

Didn't mean to sound like a ubik but probably did, so i appologise for that!

pulling out at an awkward side road with cars parked right on the the junction blocking your view

Wouldn't this still be classed as your own fault in a crash?

someone else driving too fast and hitting you

Doesn't make much difference, if your insured properly there is no problem, right?

You can't go around worrying at every junction whether someone is going to do a 187 on yo' cars a s s ! :P

Sorry,

I'll bite my tongue in future, i wasn't meaning to insult you at all if i did!

Joe

[Bibbs]

Basically, you want the most re-enforcement you can get.

In an accident it'll bend the weakest link.

If you have the V shaped ones, they are not as good (in driving terms) as a straight one as they'll flex, and when you are in an accident, it'll bend the bulkhead/firewall too ..

If you are in a big enough accident to start bending the suspension mounting points (one OR both). I think the car will be a write off anyhow.

[Richard K]

No probs Joe,

Me Posting a more detailed question might have been a better idea

You're right about my 'coming out a side road' example being classed as own fault,

I intended it to be an example of NON T W A T driving still resulting in a side impact.

Basically, you want the most re-enforcement you can get.

In an accident it'll bend the weakest link.

If you have the V shaped ones, they are not as good (in driving terms) as a straight one as they'll flex, and when you are in an accident, it'll bend the bulkhead/firewall too ..

If you are in a big enough accident to start bending the suspension mounting points (one OR both). I think the car will be a write off anyhow.

Cheers Bibbs, you're right.

Richard K

[KevT3]

I think the other thing is the safety concern. If (touch wood) there is a serious accident and the car's front is crashed in. The bar will be throwing back to the driver....

[Bibbs]

I think the other thing is the safety concern. If (touch wood) there is a serious accident and the car's front is crashed in. The bar will be throwing back to the driver....

I wouldn't be worried by an inch thick hollow bar. I'd be worried by the sheet of steel (bonnet) coming through the window and massive lump of metal (engine) coming through the bulkhead and trapping your legs.

The bar given too much will just fold in two.

If you hit something so hard the tops of your suspension turrents are in the cabin, I think you'll be dead anyway.

[bigshark]

does anyone have the web address for prolux, cant find it anywhere. remembering seening come tte struts for the ae111 in there which i wouldnt mind checking out again! cheers

[nrgizerbunny]

The stiffness of the strut bar is related to what material its made from and its cross sectional shape. A search on euler buckling will show you what effect the shape has. Some shapes are more resistant to bending than others.

an example is "I" beams, these have a high second moment of area.

however the problem is shapes which are good in bending aren't all that good in twisting and vice versa,

ie a tube is good in torsion but not good in bending. "I" beam is reverse.

Either way if you are going fast enough to cause serious damage to the front left of your car, the front right is never going to be right after.

my 2p worth

sanj

[bigshark]

at the end of the day, modyfing your car by replacing OEM parts will have an effect (some more than other) on the structural integrety of your car, isnt that why car manufaturers dont want you to modify anything when it is still under warrenty??

its just a risk that everyone has to take into consideration, even though it shouldn't be like that i.e. you shouldnt have to worry about t w a t s driving into you

[Unity Jon]

just to piddle on most of your fireworks and assumptions, the V shaped braces are made from a thicker guage steel/moly and have mounting bolts on a re-inforced (if factory fit) part of the firewall/bulkhead, and offer more stiffness and better structure than the straight across braces, which are normally 'aftermarket' cheap and cheerfulls as they fit many applications.

also if you hit a hard object it is more likely to retain shape than a soft one, but if you hit either hard enough they'll both be toast so there's little in it.